WFB RUMORS: Who’s Getting “Squatted”?

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When two of the community’s most trustworthy rumormongers start talking about armies getting “squatted” you should pay attention.

First we hear from Harry, setting up the “wide angle” view of the new WFB environment:

I think I said it depends on your definition of squatted.
If by squatted you mean can you still use your existing models to play a game … then no, armies are not getting squatted.
If by squatted you mean that they will not make any more models for that range …. as happened with the Squats in 40K …then armies are getting squatted.

….and I knew about these pictures when I included Lizardmen in the armies I thought were going to go.

Arthurius first posted about these pictures (Months ago) … and I think hastings confirmed it.
They are as described …. seeing these pictures does not give me anymore hope that my lovely Lizardmen army will see any more support in the future …. what I see is a studio army painted up for the … “look fellas you can still use your old models in the new edition” photograph. … and the “Hey fellas, it does not matter what bases your minis are on … you can use your old square based minis right along side any new mins you paint that come with round bases … ” – article in White Dwarf.

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I suspect we will be seeing more and more of the existing stuff painted up on a mixture of bases.

I can tell you there are several kits and concepts for existing armies that have not yet been released.

There may be one last roll of the die for a couple of armies is all I was suggesting. There is obviously a boat load of stuff coming for the new factions.

Something i still can’t get my head around is all the hand ringing going on about Lizardmen … like they are a special case. They are no more, no less shafted than anyone else. It is far, far easier to count the one or two armies NOT royally stuffed by this than the ones that are … just saying.

 

warhammer fantasy battles wallpaper 6032

Then we get a bit from 75hastings69, adding in more details on what he’s heard of upcoming WFB 9th models and “squatting”

I’ve no idea, I just know that some armies (existing under 8th) have models that have not yet been released, likewise CAD stuff/concepts for some, whether these will get released is unknown to me. An example would be the Dwarf Juggernaught update that never came, or the bone giant (that IIRC was finished around the same time as the latest WE Treeman).

I shall add what I know from a long while ago, not that it really brings anything to the discussion.

AFAIK Tomb Kings Bone Giant/Collossus thingy was completed around the time of the latest WE treeman, whether it got a mold made is unknown to me, brets is a much simpler answer, the last I heard was that they had no idea what to do with them at all, and AFAIK the only thing I ever heard about was a CAD image that was seen for a Hippogriff (so obviously a plastic kit) I do not think anything ever happened with this, I don’t even know for sure it was for Brets (that was just assumption on my behalf) there was no rider reported to me just the mount, then everything went quiet….. I get the problem with Brets totally, I mean apart from adding maybe knights on foot and changing some of the existing options to plastic where would you go with them from their fluff, they don’t really use war machines, they don’t use monsters, they are solely human in appearance, it really limits what you can do to develop them, especially when compared to two other human(esque in the case of chaos) forces that pretty much have access to everything from technology to monsters and beyond, sadly I think Brets were always going to be the first casualty if any squatting was to be done.

 

~More as it comes in.

  • Aezeal

    Yeah, we all suspect this, we all think this is the logical choice if the range of fantasy armies has to be limited. The guys in the topic are right: brets don’t have enough going for them.. not much GW can make cash with in the future either.

    • Mason Carroll

      You are wrong.

      • apackistany

        Great rebuttal sir * slow claps*

        • Bayne MacGregor

          Actually it was. ‘All’ statements are easy to disprove. Mason’s point is correct, logically sound and valid and self-evident. Mason has already won.

          Read my explanation below replying to Straylight if you need it.

      • I’m sure you thought the reasons Aezeal is wrong are so obvious they need not be said… but they aren’t. So please, do elaborate.

        • Bayne MacGregor

          Actually not so. Mason does not need to elaborate. But i’ll explain what might have been missed:
          See Aezeal twice made claims including the word ‘all’. A single person revealing themselves to disagree entirely proves those ‘all’ statements to be false statements.

          With his single sentence Mason has disproved both ‘all’ claims as false, even if we replace ‘all’ with ‘most and that were a true statement so long as even one person disagrees the ‘all’ statements are false. The very statement is itself sufficient proof that they are false.
          Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

          • If this were an Intro to Logic class, you’d be perfectly right. But you and I both know what you’re spouting is rather useless out here in the real world, so why don’t we let Mason defend himself, hm?

          • Bayne MacGregor

            No i’m entirely right in that point and if you think logic is useless in the ‘real world’ while communicating with me in an electronic medium on machines that run using logical programs, engaging in argument which is a field ruled by logic then you might need to rethink more than a few things.

            If Aezeal didn’t want to have an easy-lose argument then they shouldn’t have used ‘all’ and for that matter if you didn’t want an easy lose argument maybe the hypocrisy of suggesting we back out of the argument now when you were the first to reply in apparent defence of Aezeal and asking for an argument that showed reasoning might have been a mistake on your part.

            So you now have to choose which argument to withdraw, one of which takes you entirely out of the argument.

            Perhaps you just need to further explore the practical applications of Logic. 🙂

          • The only person here you’re impressing is yourself. You understand something about formal logic. Good for you. Nobody cares.

            What you DON’T appear to understand a great deal about is the way people actually use language in a day-to-day context. Perhaps you should further explore that.

            Start with the word “colloquial”.

          • Bayne MacGregor

            Saying you don’t care wont help you, you may lose an argument whether you concede defeat or pretend you haven’t lost. You still have an hypocrisy argument problem to deal with even if you had a point on language however ‘all’ still means all.

            As an Australian i’m quite familiar with colloquial language, not to mention having been raised by a Linguist. (Were you under some strange assumption that I arrived cut from whole cloth from some other world and never interact on a day to day basis with human beings who speak languages? I mean really you just didn’t think that one through!). And while Terrific moved away from it’s root-word Terror, Cult now refers to small fringe-religions rather than any of them and Thing is now an object instead of a Scandinavian parliamentary body All remains All. the Entirety, the Whole. The lot. Holus-Bolus. The Kit AND the Caboodle. Four tyres and the spare in the boot. Maximum. Every.

            And complaining that one person didn’t give their reasoning for a conclusion then complaining when someone is using reasoning is another double-standard. If you can require of one person a reasoned argument behind their conclusion then others can be taken to task for either being wrong in their assertion or using the wrong word for their intended meaning. You are being rather inconsistent.

            I advise you to back away from the Furphy Cobber, before you do yourself a mischief. You’ve already put yourself into a tight corner with hypocritical argument. If you keep flailing in attempts to fernangle your way out of this you’ll only get yourself further tangled up.

          • You know, I normally try to avoid memes and shorthand and like to stay above the generally deplorable state of written English on the internet, but in this case I’m willing to make an exception.

            I say, with absolute honesty:

            tl;dr

          • Bayne MacGregor

            4 Paragraphs was too much for you? Then you can lose by default instead of reading why you are wrong.

          • Yes. You win. You’ve argued on the Internet and won. Does that make you feel like a big boy? Like you’re all growed up now?

          • Bayne MacGregor

            Lol, for starters i’m not a boy and i might well be old enough to be your parent. Your face-saving attempt however fails and condemns you. You engaged in criticism of another, couldn’t handle it applied to yourself and so followed it with hypocrisy. Try learning to argue in Good Faith, gain some integrity and wake up to the fact that Logic is useful in every circumstance and maybe you will develop a modicum of maturity and wisdom.

    • Porky_Poster

      There’s a fair bit they could do now, looking at the minis and background changes for the End Times. Most obviously the bretonnians could be made the more spiritual or liminal of the human factions, maybe in mourning after the destruction, and maybe more morbid, calling on or hosting spirits. In the same way a lot of factions make use of different forms of machinery, brets could like the undead could be developed out from these facets of the world. You could have willingly possessed knights and transcendent weaponry, animated monuments and maybe even living terrain along wood elf lines, with coiling rivers and flowing lakes. Just off the top of my head. GW could do it better.

      • Havik110

        Like the old ghost grey knight terminators…

      • Ben_S

        Yeah, I’m not sure Brets need much more variety – knights is what they are all about – but I could see giving them angels or something along those lines.

    • Liam

      I suspect that Bretonnians will either be rebranded (as a result of their End Times developments) into a more Menoth-style faction, or they will be shoehorned into a “alliance detachment” style list rather than a full army. Basically replacing the knights out of the Empire book, who are very generic at present.

      • Aezeal

        I found the old knightly orders pretty nice and destinctive (in their looks at least).. Knights panther, Order of the White Wolf or whatever.

        • Liam

          Except that this is exactly what Bretonnians should be. The thematic distinction is that Bretonnians are feudal knights, while Empire knights are monastic knights. But then Bretonnia was given the “Crusading” themes with questing and grail knights, which really are more monastic than feudal in nature.

          That’s the rub. The two factions need to be combined, with subfaction rules to make the distinction. Want good knights in core? Can’t take gunpowder weapons.

  • TweetleBeetle

    I think what people are missing out on is how much is coming. The game is getting a sorely needed reboot. Of course there will be casualties. Via fluff, the Lizardmen departing makes sense. Aesthetically, Brets just no longer fit and haven’t for about twenty years. Without radically changing them to basically no longer be Brets, they had to go. Folding them in as a sub-sect of Empire is the likely move.

    I’m excited to see a clean slate.

    • Gridloc

      Think people are more missing the ability to keep playing an army they have spend many many years growing and painting because the company just figured start over.

      • Chris Maile

        They will be able to play them in that assumed book. You just pick brettonian units only therefore having a brettonian army

        • Gridloc

          If the rumors that all current model ranges are still listed. Its going to a massive book if all empire units, all Bret units, any Mercenary units are all under one codex. My guess things will not be included.

          My guess, is that we will see less of each faction specific units.

          • deris87

            Seems more likely that redundant choices will get consolidated into a single profile, maybe with a couple different upgrades for flavor–Grail Knights and Inner Circle Knights, for example.

          • ThorOdinson

            The rumors say the opposite, that there’ll be only six armies, and each will have less than two dozen options apiece.

            And being playable doesn’t mean your army isn’t squatted. How happy do you think Ork players would feel if their last book was the 3rd edition Codex: Orks, and they hadn’t seen any updates or new models for their army since then? That’s squatted, which is what happened to nearly every army here.

          • Marky

            I’d have no idea what was in the 40k books so don’t know what they would think

        • kaptinscuzgob

          you can do that anyway. empire has three different knight units, just proxy them with bret models

    • Aezeal

      Same here… go clean slate..
      I do hope I can use my WE models.. and their play style.. but if not I’ll figure something out.

      • Havik110

        thats all well and good but it is essentially GW saying to me, thanks for buying Lizardmen but we arent supporting them any more. why dont you buy another army…k thx bye…

        • Piotr SowiÅ„ski

          I still have my Dogs of War in my closet…

        • Bayne MacGregor

          There’s several games that i and my friends just stuck with old editions of and refused to endorse the mistakes of companies that made changes we disliked.

          I hope that GW realises a lot of people liked Lizardmen (i bought several of the kits just for the miniatures own sake!) and bring them back before too long. Because they are just handing over to competitors the market for lizardmen-like miniatures and may lose those players to other games.

    • Mason Carroll

      What are you talking about? The ’03 release made Bretonnia fit perfectly into the meta. Aesthetically, the Brets “didn’t fit” because other armies moved along while they did not. Lack of creativity, stupidity, and laziness is a poor excuse.
      And you don’t need a clean slate to fix the world. This is the laziest fix I’ve ever seen. Pathetic on their part.

      • Aezeal

        No brets have a very specific look and feel and really any change would make them liek the empire (since that covers a range of human midievil looks). ….and that is what is happening now. :D.

        • Mason Carroll

          No, it covers a certain look and feel. You can easily give normal knights access to virtues. Example…give Knights of the Realm virtue of the joust and then give horses a sort of ogre charge or impact hits. To name but a few decent ideas.
          If you’re talking about “look” as far as model goes, then that further highlights just how “out of touch” GW is. The fact is, good rules sell models more than good looks. I guess it’s all just complaining now, since the hammer has been dropped. But this is BS. “Thanks for supporting this line, now go sod off!”

          • Aezeal

            Well the virtue’s would fit with the holy warrior thing of the new empire army.. which leaves even less identity for the brets.

          • chris2155

            compltely disagree, by and large good looking models are what sell, not the rules.

          • deris87

            You’re both wrong. Some people buy models primarily for looks, some people for the rules (and some for the fluff). There’s a reason Wave Serpents didn’t blow of the shelves prior to the 6th ed codex despite being just as good a model as always, and there’s also a reason Tomb Blades got insanely powerful in the new book to the point they’re constantly on back order.

    • 6Cobra

      Tweetle, you’d be excited if GW dropped a dook in a box and sold it.

      You blithely talk about “casualties”… those are peoples’ armies that they have spend thousands of bucks/quid and hours on. Guess what? Sometimes, just sometimes, people have a legitimate beef with GW.

      “..They had to go..” WTF? That sounds like a GW honcho talking, in a board meeting. That’s who you are in real life isn’t it?

      • chris2155

        So the company can’t move forward because of the gripe you just listed…sorry, not how the world works. The way going forward has been discussed and determined to be the more profitable recourse, or the company wouldn’t have pulled the plug.

        • jeff white

          more profitable for who? for how long? for current management over the course of an expected stint as coo/cfo/ceo? until some investor’s first son’s bat-mitzvah or first daughter’s wedding or whatever it is that mammon worshipping snakes celebrate? look, reasonable people including heavily invested gamers understand that things change, true, but there used to be more to a social contract than ‘ain’t makin’ enuf fast enuf, so dun’… the end-times nonsense is a peek into the minds of mammon worshippers, as it all ends in the glorious dissolution of the civil fabric built for generations and tossed-off by some bean-counting car collecting maggot. you might not be old enough to remember the old days, when social virtues included more than short-term profit maximization, and lizardmen actually came in the boxed mfn set. but, they did, and they did…

          • Bayne MacGregor

            I largely agree with what you posted except that mentioning bat-mitzvah seems anti-Semitic, so if you aren’t you may want to clarify that. From those connected to wealthy corporations that i have met Prosperity Ministries Christianity and to a much lesser extent the Exclusive Brethren are more frequently the religious beliefs associated with corporate culture than Judaism but even then many of those who follow those faiths can have a decent respect for the Social Contract issues you raise.

            Greed and unethical behaviour is found amongst every religious belief system, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that the proportion of Psychopaths in CEO positions is much higher than in the general population.

          • jeff white

            yeah, a couple things:
            1) i was born a jew.
            2) most people who celebrate bat-mitzvahs are not semites – DNA proves that well enough. most are askenazi’s, middle european exports from Khazaria, a particularly war-like and perhaps genetically psychopathic race whose leadership took up Judhaism simply because of the chosen-people status inherited with the conversion, a bigoted tribalism that demonstrates itself today in the apartheid occupation of Palestine.
            3) i have a very long chapter on my academia.edu page in which i apply my ACTWith information processing model of moral cognition to the problem of both individual (neural) and collective (corporate/systemic) psychopathy. you may find that of interest.
            4) the “culture” of latter-day corporate capitalism is what is known as a “pathocracy” and the western world, especially, has been descending into what i call ‘hard fascism’ (as opposed to ‘soft’ fascism) since the third incarnation of the private central bank in the USA under Wilson (also a distant relative, according to my long-dead grandmother, and rather a point of shame frankly). that this “culture” amounts to mammon worshipping, i.e. a religion of greed, recalls the fact that Christ was condemned for confronting this same parasitic collusion between finance and theocratic governance. anyone who says something like “companies exist to make money and that is the way it is so suck it up or quit gaming” is viciously ignorant of the great religious narratives in terms of which we all are born and die, and so – even in forums like this one – i do what i can to correct this ignorance.
            thank you for your thoughtful reply to my comment. i hope to see more.

        • 6Cobra

          Oh, they can cut armies and change their product line all they want to.

          What they can’t do – much as people like you wish they could – is make customers who are watching enormous personal investments in time and money get flushed down the crapper feel happy, excited and grateful that it is happening. Actions have consequences.

          • jeff white

            troof!

      • Drayke

        GW may makes decisions that most of us don’t like, but there is no way they made this decision lightly. They probably had numerous meeting on how to improve WFB and came up with this solution.

        Now you can dislike or like it. It is your opinion but don’t attack people who are being optimistic or are excited about the possible changes. Not everyone has the same opinion.

      • Brettila

        No, he is not eloquent enough.

      • Bayne MacGregor

        6Cobra.. you didn’t hear about what Cards Against Humanity did, did you.

    • V10_Rob

      If the army I’d spent several years and several hundreds of dollars on was tossed out (or left to wither from lack of support) because it was no longer profitable in the new corporate vision, I’d be excited about my clean slate, too.

      That clean slate being a perfect excuse to walk away from my investment/addiction and try an entirely new game.

      • jeff white

        don’t hate the game, hate the management.

  • Gridloc

    Clearly we will see a combined faction of man, and with the way GW loves their $50 two pages of rule supplement books they will make a specific one with ‘Holy knights’ and be a make shift Bret army.

    • Dennis J. Pechavar

      I really want to blast you and tell you how wrong you are…but you’re not. I pisses me off that you are as accurate as you are. No foul on your part, this is all GW.

  • Chris Maile

    Squatted is a harsh word! Well they receive a new army book solely for them? Probably not. Will they receive a place in a current book and fluff in current litratuture then the answer is undoubtedly yes. I can imagine we will see more formations and the like to refresh rules and armies that won’t be the focus of new model ranges. They will all still be relevant but in a non traditional way, they surely couldn’t continue updating 15 army books, it wouldn’t leave time to focus on new campaigns and ranges it will not squat it will refresh

    • Aezeal

      The whole holy warrior notion fits the brets pretty well I’d say.

    • ThorOdinson

      “Will they receive a place in a current book and fluff in current litratuture then the answer is undoubtedly yes.”

      How do you figure? Their planet got blown up, along with their country, nevermind the goddess which was central to Bretonnian culture turned out to be a fraud which they all turned their back on at the end. Just about every army in the setting has gone the way of the Squats, eaten by Tyranids and no longer a part of the setting.

      • deris87

        Because clearly the planet getting blown up will not remain the status quo, or there’d be no 9th edition in the first place. That’s patently silly. Especially when the whole end of the book involved a “former human god-like being grabbing hold of the molten heart of the world and forming a miracle.” If you can’t imagine how we might see Bretonnian style knight units in a new edition/setting of Warhammer that’s a failure of imagination.

    • bogger3k

      I doubt squatting applies here.. more like Sisters of Battling… You know the bare minimum support to make it so that you still may buy the models and keep you quiet.

    • Brettila

      The real insult is what GW does after they have ‘squatted’..

  • Mason Carroll

    The comment on the Bretonnians is utter horse #$^%
    GW’s lack of creativity and stupidity is the only thing that “squatted” Bretonnia.

    • Aezeal

      You are wrong.

      • Mason Carroll

        That’s the worst response in history. Please explain further.

        • #define_Foo

          you : the pronoun of the second person singular or plural, used of the person or persons being addressed, in the nominative or objective case

          are: present indicative plural and 2nd person singular of be.

          wrong: deviating from truth or fact; erroneous:

          • Mason Carroll

            And your response is no less insipid. Bad troll is bad. The fact is, GW is an idiotic company that is “squatting” Brets because they lack creativity. Fixing Brets would be as simple as a new book with new models, but it would be so much easier to go a step further too. Nice try though.

          • #define_Foo

            AWWW

          • Jonathan B.

            Actually, I don’t think it is that easy. First off, there was the CHS lawsuit, which really put a hurt on all parties involved. In order to protect their Intellectual Property, GW will only have units in their books with models for sale, and those models will have a specific legally protectable appearance. With 40K that is easy: Astartes look like Astartes, Eldar like Eldar, even 40K Orks like Orks with big shootas. With WFB, that is harder. Ever since Ral Partha made miniatures for D&D, there have been Sword and Sorcery Fantasy miniatures. That is what WFB is. So how do you make your miniatures different enough to make them copyrightable? Well, with Empire, the look is fairly complex with the floppy chapeaux and the baggy clothes in a Landsknecht style. I don’t think anyone else is doing it like that. However, Bretonians are maille and shield medieval knights on horseback, the same as what is produced by several companies, past and present. Without a complete overhaul, GW would have difficulty with the copyrightable IP appearance.
            Second, some armies are just not selling well. If you have an army that say only 50 people world-wide (I know that is hyperbole) are regularly buying new models for, does it make sense to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds sterling making new models and new rules for that army? If you are really trying to make money, then the answer is unfortunately no.
            I know it hurts seeing your army marginalized. I have a friend who plays Sisters, and he is constantly griping about the lack of GW support for them. You can still play Brets, but perhaps you should consider other options if you are unhappy. You can leave in a huff, but who does that hurt? GW? I don’t think so. Or you can start a new army. The choice is yours.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            Well written and good points. GWs response to this question of how to trademark their models? MOAR SKULLZ!

          • Jonathan B.

            More skulls makes everything better.

          • Brettila

            Yeah, the winged skull thing is already owned by Overkill.

          • Mason Carroll

            I want to hate you right now…but I can’t. Maybe it’s the bees idea…

          • Bobsyouruncle

            Good points , although many historical companies produce good quality boxed sets that can be used as empire troops like warlord games .

          • jeff white

            another story about how neo-liberal neo-classical neo-feudal latter-day corporate capitalism is wrecking all that we hold dear, from the donbas to the gaming table it is fascists who rule, now… you might be ok with that, but most of the rest of us are not…

          • Jonathan B.

            Then start your own gaming company. Run it as you see fit. Just don’t expect me to invest.

          • jeff white

            you just can’t get your head around what i have just written, here, can you… cannot even think the idea represented therein… sadly, i bet people around you think that you are the smart one. sad, because this is the status quo, it is the result of defunded centralized education, teaching to tests and of an ontology of a single substance, fiat currency. money is the mind… sad.

        • Aezeal

          I’m not sure why you think your post deserves a better answer.. read your post again and you will see it doesn’t deserve anything more. Not to mention my answer is brief and the truth.

          • #define_Foo

            he probably has a Bret army err ….. i mean scrap plastic knights he can no longer use.

            some uses for them knights :-
            1. rough rider army for 40k
            2. empire things
            3. small rocking horses for bees

          • Nameless

            I am all for option 3, I shall begin converting all my scrap metal and plastic knights into rocking horses immediately

          • Jonathan B.

            The slots in the bases are spaced just right to support the rockers too.

          • Nameless

            alas not in mine, they where all based on slotless bases. more fool me who’d have known that 8/9 years later they still wouldn’t have a new book

          • Aezeal

            I think the new human army will have a use for Knights..
            My own wild riders will probably be gone too.. but I love the models and I’ll proxy them as whatever elite cavalry the army gets.

          • Mason Carroll

            And my comment was pretty simple and to the point. Make a new book, and you sell models. A good book, mind you. That covers stupidity and lack of creativity. The fact is, your response was idiotic at best to a viable opinion.

          • #define_Foo

            small rocking horses for bees !

          • Mason Carroll

            It is tempting…

          • Insert_nickname_here

            I’m fed up with bees getting all the love! My earwigs have been rockinghorseless since 2003! GW obviously doesn’t care about earwigs.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            They have been an overpowered WAAC army for years, why should they get rocking horses as well?

          • Jonathan B.

            But the earwigs’ last army book was way back in 5th edition.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            But it’s still a valid book.

          • Aezeal

            The new book might be pretty good.. holy warriors isn’t far of brets at all…

  • TweetleBeetle

    Oh, and while I didn’t know all the details up front, I did know Bretonnians were a waste and a lost cause. All the people (*cough*daboarder*cough*) who challenged me know where they can cram it. Oh, and bite the pillow, because it’s going in dry.

  • #define_Foo

    and with the rate their bringing 40k books out i wouldn’t be surprised to see a squats codex for 7th ….slated before sisters ofc

    • Dennis Harrison

      And lizardmen-

  • kaptinscuzgob

    i really doubt theyll get rid of lizardmen, theyre one of the most popular armies. bretonnians, tomb kings and beastmen maybe, but not lizardmen

    • Porky_Poster

      I agree. The lizardmen – with a more easily protected name, like Slann say – might be key to what GW is trying to do. It wouldn’t be surprising if there was a long term plan to bring the two settings – of 40K and fantasy – properly together.

      After all, both systems and settings are at their core quite aged and arguably long overdue a major reworking to help compete with all the new rivals. Both could be updated together to work as one, which in turn could mean more grouping up of fantasy factions if the interest in a separate game continues to wane, to save space on shelves, maybe even into a couple of books, or just one, with more products going direct order.

      This direction could be extrapolated from the possible rebranding of GW to Warhammer, the End Times, the basing changes and the evolution in the design of the factions, like Skaven, possibly to become more powerful in absolute terms, enough to feel right at some future point alongside power armoured superhumans.

      • Michael Gerardi

        “Slann” more easily protected? A. E. van Vogt’s estate would like a word with you.

    • Liam

      I really don’t understand why people think that Lizardmen are getting squatted. The entire rumour is based on fumes. People speculating that “6 factions” didn’t leave room for the lizzies.

      I mean seriously…they are one of a handful of factions that escaped before the world blew up. If anything, it is their SURVIVAL that has been confirmed.

      • kaptinscuzgob

        exactly, theyre the only faction that actually made a clean escape

        • “Clean” if you conveniently forget about their mightiest Slann biting the dust (or becoming dust?) and various characters and myriads of the small guys and warriors getting terminated.

          There was nothing clean about the way the surviving Lizardmen packed up and left large parts of their population to die to the Skaven’s machinations and moon-dropping.

          • kaptinscuzgob

            alright alright mr pedantic, i meant that they clearly survived as a race, unlike everybody else on Team Good

  • Arthfael

    OK, I don’t get it… you guys still have the rulebooks for 8th, right? You still have your army and army book, right? So can’t you just play 8th? Or 7th, 6th, whichever, adjusting rules as you go? You will always be able to buy models from ebay, there will be plenty for a while, and then probably some companies will make replacements. Heck, remember where this hobby came from? RP games, when rulebooks were just guidelines. C’mon, organise, enjoy your freedom! You’ve been complaining about GW for decades, now it is setting you free, what’s the problem? Get together, organise the future of 8th, while GW uses 9th to make something brand new…

    Basically, this could be lose/lose, but if you guys are collectively clever this will be win/win instead.

    • Aezeal

      I don’t think I’ll play 8th even if my WE are completely gone. Unless 9th rules are terrible (I doubt that) I’ll be playing those.. that elven army is bound to have some archers and cavarly which I can proxy with my WE.

      • Floreat_Jerboa

        yet you cheer for the death of the brets. but don’t touch my army, oh no, not my army.

        • Mason Carroll

          Elves (Wood, Dark, and High) got great army books. So of course they won’t be squatted.

          • Brian Griffith

            Except by all accounts the army proceeds from its End Times state. So it’s not Elves (Wood, Dark, and High) as three armies, it’s Elves (just Elves) as a single army.

          • Mason Carroll

            All three armies were given similar rules, (ASF for instance) and several of each armies unique units will remain.
            The same can not be said for Brets.

          • Marky

            A single army you need 3 books for 🙂

        • Aezeal

          I actually didn’t say they could’n’t touch my army… I said I’ll adapting and playing the new elves. I don’t cheer for the death of the brets either.. I’m pretty sure anyone with a brain can use archers and Knights in the new human army.

        • deris87

          I’m not sure you read his post. He just said the only way he won’t play 9th is if the rules the rules are terrible. If “Wood” Elves don’t exist anymore he’ll use his existing models to fill whatever unit choices are actually available.

    • Michael Gerardi

      The one-word answer: OLDHAMMER.
      It’s what I’ll be doing with my TK.

      • Dennis Harrison

        Except Tomb Kings don’t exist in Oldhammer. You guys are still playing 8th.

        • Michael Gerardi

          Au contraire, TK exist in 7th and 6th. I started in 7th, and before that schmuck Ward wrecked 7th with his idiotic army books.

  • Adam Murray

    Why not make the entire army webstore exclusive, clear space on your shelves to sell spacemarines to 12 year olds and let us old buggers still buy our Knights of the Realm if we want to. The cost of pressing models cant be that high that they wouldn’t make a profit surely to goodness. If I’m wrong then can someone explain this? I don’t know why GW don’t just move majority online anyway and use their stores as more gaming and hobby centres, but that’s another conversation.

  • Havik110

    at this point i think its time to tell GW, print the rules in the boxes, and we will have yakface fix the codecies like he did with necromunda…or hell, call privateer, tell them you will make their models in exchange for making good tight rules….

    but if they wont balance the game, the community should do it for them…

    • Aezeal

      how is this suddenly about the rules.. we haven’t even seen the 9th rules. so how can we say they aren’t good. 8th edition rules where good and an improvement over 7th.. I think 9th will be a further improvement.
      But this topic wasn’t really about rules.

      • Havik110

        not about the over all games rules…i meant to balancing armies against themselves…Privateer is superior in that compared to GE…the only really bad mismatches are the natural rock vs paper matches you sometimes come across which is why you can have 2 lists…

  • Floreat_Jerboa

    I don’t get why so many are roaring happily about the brets getting squatted. people, significant numbers of people, spent lots of time and money building and painting an army they liked. if it does go away, that is not a cause for celebration. anyone who thinks it is, or takes pleasure in it, is a first case jerk who isn’t worth the time of day, much less someone anyone should want to game with.

    • Mason Carroll

      Pretty much. GW fan boys out in force, it seems.

    • Dennis Harrison

      I still don’t understand why you can’t use Brettonians in the game. It is one of six factions. Human warriors with cavalry and archers. Do you really think all of the elf units and rules from three books are getting ported over? Even goblins and chaos will lose units as we move forward. Everything is changing for every army.

      If you are implying Brettonians aren’t special without special rules and you are forced to be human instead I feel your pain. But it isn’t like this new edition is going to be just a codex release for anyone. Remember where the dwarfs are going to fit in. Aren’t the new factions- human, elf, chaos, undead, orc, and skaven?

      • Nameless

        Okay, so yes a lot of armies are likely to loose units as the armies we know are combined together and yes a lot of people will likely moan about loosing their favourite. however everything suggests that the army as a whole will still exist even as a subset of the combined army.

        not so for Brettonia. yes there will be knights in most likely half the factions but there is more to Brettonia than knights. it is more the ideology endears the book to its players. it is the idea that through courage and honour an army can win, rather than relying on magic, warmachines and countless soldiers that the forces of the empire represents.

        Not to mention all the hopes and tears of those players who have not seen a book in nearly a generation, of two full editions of hopes that our book might be more than FAQ’d to say ignore this magic item, ignore this special rule. instead what do we see? “oh you can just play this other faction instead” gee thanks

        • Dennis Harrison

          I understand your frustration. I really do. I was pointing out that Brettonia is no different than any of the other factions. There is no Empire army or Dwarf army moving forward either.

          • Nameless

            Dwarfs? yes I can agree with that, the same for any other army that is being relegated to a subset of another army. ofcoruse I am sure someone will point out that the rumors say you can just play unbound, but why should someone have to give up bonuses just to continue to play their army.

            Empire though? I don’t think I have seen a single rumor that suggests there will not be a human faction with steampunk/black powder units worshiping Sigmar. will it be called the empire? no but that won’t change the fact it is.

            the big difference is that the brettonian players have had 9 years of close to half of their rules not working. 7th edition: lance formation gave you none of its listed benefits, several magic items either didn’t work at all or worked in way that was more harmful than good. 8th edition was a little better, at least lance formation worked, except now our magic didn’t. the inability to cast most of the spells available to brettonia from the specified positions where damsels and prophetesses could be placed hurt a lot. that was addressed after 2 years in the faq however by that time the new units utterly out performed anything that brettonia could hope to muster.

          • Dennis Harrison

            The Brettonian rules in the past have been crazy. It is the same thing with my daemons in 40k. Mark of Tzeentch hasn’t worked since they changed the psychic rules. At the very least you will still be able to run a lot of your miniatures as part of the new faction. I am looking forward to seeing what I can build in this new edition out of my daemons, dwarfs, and high elves.

          • Nameless

            I don’t mean to sound argumentative but the Mark of Tzeench still does something (helps reduce the effects of perils). I won’t pretend that is not weaker than it was but with most armies Psykers being toned back with 7th ed of 40k it is fitting.

            I am curious as to what armies I can build in the new edition, but I hold little hope that I will be able to build an army where the battle isn’t a forgone conclusion before we roll a die.

          • Dennis Harrison

            I know people are letting them use the +3 LD on the Perils of the Warp test, but that isn’t actually the rule. It says when manifesting psychic powers. But that is a different topic entirely.

            Like you I hope it is a fairly good system. If it is balances at lower point values- maybe can get some better tournament play with the skirmish set, etc. I would love to see more friends get into/back into the hobby.

        • Aezeal

          Hello HOLY warriors.. that fits more with brets than current empire.. what are you complaining about.
          A cavarly formation from the new army with a few bonus for that would be pretty much the same.

          • Nameless

            Actually Empire has had Holy warriors since the time of Sigmar, Ur-Ulric being one that immediately jumps to mind, other more common place being Warrior Priests.

          • jeff white

            the Arthur mythology is the background, here, not so holy really…

    • Aezeal

      Anyone who invested so much in an army and isn’t prepared to use those Knights in the only remaining human army doesn’t deserve much sympathy really.

      • jeff white

        you don’t seem like the kind of person who drips empathy, regardless…

        • Commissar Molotov

          I think the word you’re looking for is “dick.”

          • jeff white

            umm, maybe, but such a sensitive organ should be insulted by the association. i like “fascist” better.

  • Matt

    “If by squatted you mean that they will not make any more models for that range …. as happened with the Squats in 40K”

    And what, pray tell, would anyone else mean? When you say, hey they got the 5th Edition Grey Knight treatment, we all know what is meant. Squatted specifically is a term b/c an army that was, is now no longer supported (Squats). Guess what? I can still play squats, their rules are just irrelevant. I can still play Beastmen and Brets, they just aren’t relevant. I may be able to still play my Lizardmen (or, you, whatever army you chose) but like a used car from a manufacturer that went out of business, it may run today, but god help you if something starts not working and you need a new ‘part’. If it happens, my lizardmen will become a counts as 40K army and let the converting commence. I will not buy or support a game any longer that doesn’t support my faction.

    • Marky

      Why play 40k then? It’s made by the same people

      • Matt

        B/C I’m not rage quitting but neither do I want to spend $thousands more on a new army and there won’t be a secondary market to unload a defunct army. Sad really. I love the models. I haven’t bought a model for WFB since last summer while I wait this out.

        • jeff white

          no sense reasoning with these critters… some people come from an ‘i got mine, screw you’ cultural/family, and will return to such thereby reinforcing the selfishness that moves them…

    • Dennis Harrison

      Lizardmen with guns would be really cool.

  • Bobsyouruncle

    I don’t play brets but I for one will be sad to see them go , they always looked great on the table top with a real sense of dash and colour and they had a long pedigree. When you look it up their first list was back in 1987 when they used to have access to units of peasants , crossbow men , antiquated cannons , organ guns , mounted retainers as well as the usual grades of knights and men at arms . The warhammer world will be a duller place without them.

    • Commissar Molotov

      They were the “medieval” army while the Empire was more of a 16th Century pike-and-shot army…

      I never owned ’em, but I played against them an awful lot. I’ll be really sorry to see them (and the Lizardmen, who I DO play) go.

      • Bobsyouruncle

        That’s a good way of putting it , I play an Estalian army and use allot of Warlord Games pike-and-shotte range as troops and they are soon to bring out a plastic multi part boxed set of landskets with pikes that would be perfect for empire players which look to have a sculpt quality as good as GW .

        • Dennis J. Pechavar

          I play Dogs of War and the looks I get from new players 😛 Are those spearmen? Is this a weird Empire list? You can’t play with non GW models! Ahhh The best models of GW and they are no longer seen, Perry Minis are still good stuff.

  • Alexander Thompson

    This feels like a meme. Company can’t sell fantasy knights when the biggest show on television is about fantasy knights.

    Don’t give me the creativity drivel. GW hurt their sales with bad managements; marketing and pricing.

    • Bobsyouruncle

      Good point , there is a bret player I saw who painted up his knights of the realm in the colours and insignia of the various houses from Game of Thrones and they looked stunning but I can’t for the life of me remember which site they were on !

    • jeff white

      few things are true in this world, so let me repeat this truth for the people who need to read things twice to tell the difference:

      “GW hurt their sales with bad managements; marketing and pricing.”

  • Commissar Molotov

    The more I hear the more disgusted I get.

  • Robert Thornton-Kaye

    I don’t understand why they can’t add more units to Brets and keep them around. Empire armies are generally geared towards some shooting and footsloggers, whereas the Brets are a rapid strike force. Off the top of my head they could add many units without changing their character: griffons, griffon cavalry, hippogryph riders, dragons, stags, unicorns, pegasi, crossbowmen, knights on foot.

    • Mason Carroll

      This. Exactly this.

    • Manwiththedogs

      An abundance of pegasi would be so damned cool. Would look amazing.

  • edmundblack

    As someone who was once contemplating starting WHFB, I’m glad I didn’t.

    • Matthew Selig

      your loss I guess.

      • edmundblack

        I don’t think so. Other than having to sell a kidney to buy an army and having limited player-base, considering the changes that seem to be about soon, chances are that it’d need an overhaul that I wouldn’t have the time nor inclination to do. Who knows though, these changes may tempt me in, and not having an army to worry about being obsoleted or radically changed is a benefit.

  • frankelee

    The Bretonnian thinking still seems in line with that 90s small mindedness GW got into, that this fantasy universe you can do anything with needs to have all these limitations and restrictions creatively (while being dumbed down immensely in the background fluff, which makes even less sense). They seemed to be getting away from that limitation with these big, insane models they’ve been coming up with, and demigryff knights, rat ogres with gatling gun hands, spectral flying chariots and all that. Bretonnians can be anything, throw away Stillman’s Arthurian take, or merge it with the old pre-revolutionary France Bretonnia, who cares, just make it cool. But no, they can’t do that and sell models and make money. That would just be dumb.

  • latro990

    All this annoyance… they’ll feed you the new forces of light by the power of greyskull warmachine forr spaaartaa models and you’ll be wide eyed and busting out the take my money memes to the BOLS ‘BREKAING HOLY MOLY WH 9TH MODELS IN BOUND SPOTTED’ posts

    • georgelabour

      At some point not only could that have been a useful comment, but also a sentence.

      • latro990

        ..

  • Robert Wright

    I have the following forces Brettonians, Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos,Empire,Skaven,High Elves and Orcs and Goblins am I gutted to read about the rumoured changes that might happen? YES, but as they are still rumours I will wait to see what happens. If the rumours turn out to be true I will just embrace the changes play 9th edition at the club and use the 8th edition rules for solo wargaming keeping the old world alive in my own way.

  • Alexandre Comtois

    Top choices for “squatting”:
    -Beastmen. There’s no reason they can’t be a part of a unified Chaos army.
    -Bretonnians. Unpopular and not that interesting: deploy, pray, charge.
    -TK. Few players, highly outdated model range.

    They can always bring them back if 9E really takes off.

    • Tyler Mengel

      Just out of curiosity, do you play or collect any of those armies?

      • Alexandre Comtois

        I have 2Kish points of Beastmen.

        Ultimately, one of the results of having so many factions is that some are going to end up gimped or neglected. There are only so many Fantasy players out there, after all. We’re a niche community: more comparable to the Infinity or SAGA communities at this point.

        It’s better to have 5-6 balanced, cared-for factions than 15 factions of wildly different power level and model quality.

        • Aezeal

          +1

        • jeff white

          this is true, to a degree.
          it is better to have balanced, cared-for factions than bunky cheese, but the cultural background that sparks and maintains interest in an army, that feeds sales, extends well beyond GW’s head office… it is just too bad that GW’s head office seems to think like GW Bush, or a sith, unable to appreciate living complexity…

  • rem234

    I really hope that what comes next might actually use some of the eastern kingdoms, would love to see some new stuff with Ind, Cathay and Nippon.

  • ThorOdinson
  • Unferth

    Cutting Bretonnians… this is blasphemy, this is madness.

  • JP

    It’s all going to be okay. The Sisters of Battle have established a non-profit support network for neglected and disadvantaged armies. They provide counseling, seminars, group therapy, and if it just can’t be taken anymore, they help with Seppuku.

  • Pacifica SeaOttre

    The only thing better than a fully painted lizard army is a fully painted Bretonnian army.

    • Pacifica SeaOttre

      With a pack of beagles (aka citadel blink dogs).

    • jeff white

      that model is awesome…