Age of Sigmar . . . so what’s in a name?

willi

What’s in a name? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet right? GW is banking on the complete opposite.

Interesting name choice, Age of Sigmar; I don’t think it was a random, in fact I believe a lot of thought went into this name selection. I previously wrote an article as to why GW needed to reboot Warhammer, which I will summarize quickly here;

  • It was getting stale and dated, especially when compared to some of the new competitors out there (Warmachine for example).
  • It was becoming financially unviable: the costs associated with storing, maintaining and shipping a massive and complicated inventory with dwindling sales.
  • GW is having trouble protecting its current version Warhammer IP (intellectual property) and 3rd parties were running rampant producing generic models and selling them for cheaper online.
  • The game had itself grown in size and scale; the start up costs to the customer are high and intimidating, thus new players were not getting into the hobby.

The answer to why GW choose the name “Age of Sigmar” is their solution to problems 2) and 3) above. Let’s look at these problems a bit closer. GW needs to maintain a massive game (hundreds possibly thousands of boxed sets/clampacks/books/accessories). To do so it needs to maintain a large bureaucracy (manufacturing infrastructure, shipping infrastructure, game design infrastructure, HR, advertising and accounting departments); however, its IP is not well protected. Therefore they’ll go through the trouble of designing the game, designing the models, making the story, paying the advertising and retail prices to bring it to you, but someone in China or Russia is going to recreate it and sell if for cheaper; and unless it’s a complete recast, this is completely legal. Why? Well who invented High Elves, GW or Tolkien? How about Wood Elves? Tolkien again. The Dwarves we find in Warhammer are also Tolkien’s. Brettonia? That’s right out of history books; as are most of the human realms. What’s my point? GW needs to charge higher prices than most; however its IP is not strong enough to protect them from knock-offs.

chines76

Solution? Redo the IP! Specifically, go back to where it all started, the Age of Sigmar! 40K did this in part with the Horus Heresy and look how well it worked. By going back to its roots, that GW wrote themselves, they can now reinvent their IP and most importantly, protect it. high elves, dark elves and wood elves? Nope. During the Age of Sigmar there was only one nation of Elves. These “new” elves are going to be GW originals, and thus will be protected from knock offs. We can expect to see this for each and every faction. This is, from what I can see, the only solution to their problem. And so far the evidence seems to indicate this is the case. The factions that are staying that are generic (elves, undead, orcs and humans) are getting a massive overhaul with significant changes to their look/feel and whole new range of models. The factions that are GW originals (Chaos and Skaven) are staying and getting a breath of fresh air. The other generic races that are just too generic to really redo (dwarves and Ogres) are getting folded in with the others.

400px-Aenarion

Interestingly, the fluff they wrote years and years ago gave them the tools necessary to do this. What if Aenarion and Caledor failed to create the magic sucking vortex on Ulthuan? You see the vortex the elves created to save the world was also a temporal one. It mentions in every edition of High Elf book that Caledor and his retinue of mages we’re doomed to fight in the epicenter of the vortex for all eternity; time never passed for them. When this Vortex was eventually destroyed in the End Times, maybe we jump back in time? Maybe everyone from the past jumps in to the future? Who cares, the point is this one little piece of fluff gave them an out to redo the whole Warhammer world.

age of sigmar2

So, why the name “Age of Sigmar?” GW is taking a bold step. They are redoing their game and rewriting the fluff to protect their IP from the knockoffs.

We’re going back to the beginning folks, and I for one am excited to see where this rabbit hole comes out! How about you, excited to see an all original Warhammer, or will you become a grumbling long beard and bemoan the new and finicky?

  • Most people hate change. The internet is a medium for people to complain. There is no doubt in my mind that once the new fantasy drops that the internet will be flooded with complaining.

    • vonevilstein

      The internet *is* flooded with complaining. Whether the new WFB does or does not drop will do little to change that state of affairs. The internet has become the customer service line to no one for everyone. And it seemed like such a good idea at the time…;).

      • Ben

        I blame Al Gore.. He did invent the internet after all…. Or should we blame manbearpig?

    • benn grimm

      Yeah, and no doubt, plenty of complaining about the complaining. And probably some complaining about the people complaining about the complainers… man I love the net… 😉

      • euansmith

        Dude, you are such as Complaining Complainer Complaining Complainer…

        • benn grimm

          No doubt son, its the new hippest anti hipster, hipster thing to do… 😉

          • /me hands benn a “hello my name is: pot” sticker

            /me hands euan a “hello my name is: kettle” sticker

            You two make such a cute couple 🙂

        • Ben

          My head hurts…

      • ChubToad

        Complain-ception!

    • A new iPhone drops, and two and a half billion people rush out to buy it, even though their old one is still working fine. Privateer Press releases an entirely new, game-changing model type, and the Internet buzzes with excitement and anticipation rather than hatred and vitriol.

      No, I don’t think people hate change. I think they fear it more, but that can be overcome by the ones instituting the change by building up a relationship of trust and respect between them and the masses. If you prove to the plebes that you hear them, that you listen to them, and that you care as much about the thing they love as they do, you can earn their trust and goodwill. This is a long, slow process where a single misstep can undo years of effort, but it IS a necessary one, even (or especially) in a luxury good industry.

      This is a thing Games Workshop has utterly, spectacularly failed to do, despite their customers giving them every chance in the world. The unsurprising result is one of the most toxic, hateful online communities in the world today.

      Do people hate change? No. They love Warhammer; it’s been a part of their lives for years, decades even, and their investment in it–financially, emotionally, socially–is total. And they don’t trust GW to handle it with the care they feel it deserves. They don’t believe GW loves it the same way they do, and the thought of some uncaring giant, unaware that they even exist, obliviously crushing the thing they love as it strides past on the way to some inexpressible and distant goal, terrifies them, so they lash out.

      And frankly I don’t blame them.

      • vonevilstein

        “The unsurprising result is one of the most toxic, hateful online communities in the world today”

        Lol. This is irony right?

        • No. In the sense of conveying an intended meaning opposite of its literal meaning or of being excessively sardonic, I do not mean my statement to be taken ironically. GW’s behavior has contributed to the creation of the prevailing atmosphere we see every day in these comments threads, and the fact that they have done nothing to prevent or rectify the situation despite ample opportunity and a community that would, I think, be receptive to any such advances, is if anything, a bit tragic.

          • Gary Findlay

            GW is walking a fine line, thats why they are consistently tight lipped. Not only do they have to produce a product people will buy, in an always competitive market, but they have to consistently convince serious investors (the kind who run hedge funds and have the sense of humour of velociraptors 😉 ) that they arn’t a bunch of pot smoking, AC/DC listening, arty, liberal hippies. To highlight, imagine walking into the BBCs program “dragons den” and try to pitch warhammer to those investors. And those dragons at tempered by the fact they are on TV.

            The reality is much less kind.

          • And yet, GW has been slowly but surely losing market share to younger, more agile, more communicative companies like Privateer, Wyrd and Corvus Belli, all of whom, by the way, have absolutely WONDERFUL communities on their official forums.

          • Gary Findlay

            Thats the nature of a free market. Adapt or die. As a customer with money, my personal preference is for GeeDubs. And people are free to hate them if they wish, vote with their wallet as the bard tells us. I feel however, that a lot of the ire they attract has more to do with ignorance than truth. But GW has its hands tied unfortunatly. They can hardly say “Guy guys, we hear what you are saying, but we have this old guard of employees who insist you fund thier defunct fantasy game hobby and a bunch of douchbag investors who think we are a mechanism to pump mentally disordered neckbeards for cash, cus they where schooled in oxbridge and have a general disregard for anyone who isn’t gentry”.

            Every mini company has an awesome stage, until they need to expand, until the founder has wild crazy dreams and then the business types step in and it becomes a “business” meaning they get exposed to velociraptors. It happened to rackham, it happened to white wolf, it will happen to every single minature/games company that exists. GW is unique because they listened to the velociraptors and still maintained its core values.

            Be grateful.

          • me

            “maintained the core values”?!
            What core values do you mean if I might ask?
            For what and why should I be greatful?

          • Be grateful for what? For a company that issues seemingly-random edicts and changes to a game I’ve invested so much time and money into? For a company that doesn’t even really seem to be aware its customers exist, much less what they think and say? For a company that has willfully dragged the games away from the way people want to play them? Above all, for a company that is so overbearingly protective of itself that it refuses to even communicate with the people keeping it in business?

            Is that what I’m supposed to be grateful for? Really?

          • lordofexcess

            This would have been accurate years ago. But who are the “old guard” employees? All those guys are gone aren’t they?

            I do agree with your depiction of the business cycle. That happens in every industry. Endless companies can be used as an example from Disney to Walmart. The founder(s) have a “vision”, the company has a “soul” … the MBAs, Accountants and Lawyers take over … and the company looks like all other companies. Marketing trumps everything and the standard business formulas are what drive the business plan. The “soul” the “vision” is gone … and the founder buys an island somewhere … (true story in GW’s case).

          • Aezeal

            People hardly have expectations and haven’t invested 15 years + in those games. There is no real comparion. Let me generalize a bit: the majority of GW players is a certain kind of person, in the group of certain kind of persons the adversity to change and the lack of ability to deal with it is way bigger than in the general community. That certain kind of player is also more often an “internet warrior” so their online community is flooded with their negative opinion. Generalizing to the max…. I know.. but you get my point.. and you know I’m right.

          • No, you aren’t right. At risk of being accused of rampant fanboyism, allow me to highlight the Warmachine/Hordes community for a moment: PP’s official forums are probably THE BEST online community of any sort I’ve ever seen. They’re friendly, helpful, excited about the game, and genuinely like both the game and the company that produces it. They’re about as far the polar opposite of the toxic sludge that is the GW community as it’s possible to be.

            AND YET, probably 90% of that forum’s constituents play or have played 40K or Fantasy.

            If the problem with GW is that it attracts a kind of person predisposed to toxic behavior, and PP attracts those same people, then shouldn’t the PP community be as toxic as the GW community? Since they aren’t, your assumption that the people themselves are the source of the toxicity must be false.

          • Marky

            They gw are not on the fringe any more, they are not remarkable any more. They do not provide a unique user experience that I can’t get elsewhere (unless I live in Nottingham).. that’s some of the problems I see.

          • Depends on what you mean by “unique user experience”. Hobby Centers are still, as far as I know, a unique thing in the industry, and if the user experience I’m after is specifically “Play Warhammer, 40K or Hobbit”, I can’t exactly get that outside of GW.

            Even in context of the user experience of the hobby as whole, GW never was unique. They didn’t invent the industry, and they’ve NEVER stood alone in it, so that’s not really a valid excuse for them either. If anything, their refusal to adapt to a changing environment is what keeps catching them out.

        • jeff white

          i think that the word you are looking for is hyperbole… not irony… hyperbole.

          • No, I wasn’t being hyperbolic either. I’d rate the GW online community right up there with the League of Legends community for being wretched, miserable places to be.

            Heck, even GW’s own employees are aware that their company is a breeding ground for toxic, hateful behavior. Go get your local redshirt drunk one night and then ask him what he REALLY thinks of his company and his boss.

          • ChubToad

            Well we are all part of this “toxic” community, even you. So that should also tell you something about what everyone (even you) contribute to the community

          • Never claimed I wasn’t, though I believe my posting history will show that I try to make meaningful, thoughtful contributions when possible.

      • I don’t totally buy that.

        When the new iphone dropped there were a lot of people that bought it yes. There was also a lot of flaming going on in the internet community about apple “fan boyz” and “apple zombie customers that buy whatever apple puts out”.

        (sound familiar?)

        Privateer releasing a new model type isn’t the same as Privateer releasing a new edition of their game. If they released a new edition of their game, I am willing to bet there would be people put off of it because its different.

        The D&D forums have been filled with a mixture of praise and rage at the new 5th edition, with the same arguments going back and forth (that there are wizards fan boyz that will buy whatever D&D thats put out because fan boyz lol)

        The star wars universe same thing. A lot of complaining and nerd rage because of the changing of the fiction (by saying the existing fiction doesn’t count anymore, this produced legions of threads cursing Disney and George Lucas for “screwing over their fan base” (again, sound familiar?) yet I bet it breaks movie records when its released this year.

        The GW online community is probably the most toxic and hate filled community that I know of but the D&D community and the star wars community are not far behind 😉 Pretty much every nerd-hobby that I am a part of has a legion of hate following after it in some form or fashion.

        The GW online hate has its roots similar to the D&D online hate that I read. Its the schism between people that want tight tournament rules vs those that don’t at its core, mixed in with pricing angst.

        • There’s a disconnect, though, between “everybody says they hate this thing” and “the thing sets record sales numbers”. Clearly, not everybody hated it if it made more money than God.

          Nonetheless, I think my essential point about mutual trust and goodwill between the producer and the consumer contributing in large part to the health of a community stands true.

          And… let’s not talk about D&D. I fought that edition war long and hard during both the 3.5-4e move and the 4e-5e move, and I am, frankly, even more fed up and burnt out with that company, that community, that game and that hobby than I am about GW.

          • Totally thats why I avoid most internet forums these days. The hackmaster forums are pretty positive overall though 😀

          • Muninwing

            remember that GW shut down their own forums due to the trolling and d-baggery that became common there…

          • Muninwing

            2e ftw…

        • Gridloc

          True PP didn’t release a whole new game, last time they did that, they asked their customers to test it out many months to get reactions and feed back. how much was taken into account i’m not sure, but by doing so, they softened the transition massively, where few of the previous edition players felt like the rug was pulled from under them.

          Some times re-starting is needed, i don’t blame GW for that. A failing product needs a reboot, but this was the perfect chance for GW to start getting invovled with what the customers want or feel should change. It wouldn’t be easier, but the benefits of GW listening, would have echo’d on the internet loudly.

      • jeff white

        truth

      • Gary Findlay

        The nerve GW consistently hits has more to do with nostalgia than reality. IMHO GW has acted reasonably given the circumstances.

        • Reasonably as far as the much-needed “glass the planet” Fantasy reboot is concerned, sure.

          Their lack of a PR department or any kind of a way for their customers to make their voices heard has consistently backfired on them over the years, though.

          • oh the old GW forums back in the day *shudder* – probably the most hate filled forum ever!

          • I don’t blame them for closing it, but that the place got as bad as it did was the result of their own mismanagement and terrible PR.

            Instead of solving the problem, GW decided to bury their heads in the sand and pretend the complaints didn’t exist, which only led to the community becoming even more toxic, and, well, fifteen years later, here we are.

          • I dunno I think if the forums still existed today that nothing would change in terms of community toxicity.

            The day that GW shut down their tournament circuit was the day they lit the kerosene. That was the moment I noticed that the pitchforks and torches were on overload.

          • You’re right, keeping their forums around wouldn’t have helped, but that’s linked back to the same issue at the root of all their problems: terrible PR and an inability to properly manage their own community.

          • Well it cycles back to their two main issues.

            #1 – price. Price was a rage point back in 1998 when their forums first started, was the rage point all through the life cycle of their forums and was a rage point when the forums closed, and is a rage point today.

            #2 – not being geared towards tournament play any longer. Forums won’t fix that.

            What can they do?

          • Communicate, is what. Nothing, but nothing, destroys good faith more quickly than one side clamming up and refusing to hear or explain itself to the other. Humans fill silence with the worst intentions, and that can and has killed businesses.

            GW does things… and nobody understands why they do them, because they don’t communicate. People think “well, that must mean they know I won’t like the answer, so therefore their reason for doing it must be bad”, particularly when there’s a mismatch between what the community wants of the game and what the company seems to want.

          • Muninwing

            and that was before all the price-complainers gained steam and outrage over their lack of understanding of inflation…

          • me

            Ahhh now I get it mate!
            They are not raising prices! It’s all the inflation!

            Any chance that you are from Zimbabwe?

          • Muninwing

            do you know that things cost more over time, as the value of money changes?

            do you know that the prices on many GW products do not change, since that means reprinting boxes?

            do you know that eventually that makes them lose money, and revenue?

            so… not sure why you’re acting like i’m the crazy one.

            most kits don’t go up each year, but the old kits do jump in price when they get picked for a price increase. usually, their new price is their old price at introduction adjusted for inflation, and rounded off.

            example: $50 for terminators when they came out in 2005, adjusted via US cpi = $60.57… and the newer kits (like the Deathwing models) are $60 kits.

            it’s not true with all… and it’s not true with kits that add tons of extra bitz or options, but it’s a pretty consistent general rule.

            but people like to complain about price, and don’t really get the “niche market hobby” pricing anyway, so there’s that. it’s just really boring to listen to all the time.

          • Prophaniti

            Games Workshop had an average price increase, across the spectrum, of 45% from 2004 to 2012. The rate of inflation for the same time period was 16%. While the information you supplied was accurate in the case of the terminators, it didn’t reflect Games Workshops pricing policies as a whole. Some people want terminators to be sure, but the community buys into the hobby in ad great many more ways than just that example.

          • Muninwing

            look at any other kit…
            1. when did it come out
            2. what was its price then
            3. adjust for US-cpi

            and it’s mostly close.

            when it isn’t, it’s because they resculpted, added bitz to the sprue, or the like.

            so while, yes, the old IG 20-man box going to a slightly cheaper 10-man box looks bad, if you look at the extras involved and adjust for when that 20-man box first came out at that price, it’s not far off.

            they have recently come out with larger, pricier kits. this has nothing to do with what i’m talking about. and they have redone a few kits to reflect extra options, adding a surcharge for the extras. this is also not part of the inflationary costs. both of these do increase the average cost of a starter army (as if those treating the game as a hobby, or the younger players, buy a 2000-point army all at once… also a silly argument), but are unrelated to my claim.

            occasionally, there is a outlier. Eldar have at least one kit where they changed very little past unit size, but added less. but these are rarities. still, those outraged at having to pay luxury goods prices for hobby materials (which are luxury goods), will demand of GW whatever they feel they are owed…

          • Prophaniti

            I don’t recall stating anything about outrage at the cost of a luxury good. I merely pointed out that in an 8 year span Games Workshop increased their prices by 45% across the spectrum. You can justify those increases in any way you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that at the end of that particular 8 year period the hobby had become almost half again more expensive to participate in than it was at the beginning. It may not be an issue for you, me, or a great many others participating in this debate, but it must be for some. The reason we’re having this discussion in the first place is because a Games Workshop flagship product has fallen off to 12% of the companies sales. I suspect that has something to do with cost personally, but even if I’m wrong there is still an explanation to be found.

          • nurglitch

            Inflation affects different products differently. There’s a number of products and services out there which are really throwing off the numbers by which overall inflation is calculated.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            that was a symptom of a pre-existing issue not a cause.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        well said, brilliant post.

      • lordofexcess

        Well said. With GW the standard “people hate change” doesn’t really cover it. That is part of it. But it is far from the whole story. Some people see GW as an icon, something that dominated their youth. In the eyes of many that has been ripped away. GW had a soul, and once all the old guys retired and/or were forced out … its just another company like WoTC that has a product line for geeks.

        So GW has a monumental task of convincing people that they are finally listening and doing more than just devising yet another devious way to monetize something and/or increase profits by giving less value to the customer.

        • And yet, they do not seem to be even attempting that task, and that is entirely the problem. A little goodwill goes a long way.

    • vlad78

      This is quite narrow minded isn’t it?
      GW let the world stagnate for 30 years then blew it up instead of making it evolve and you want peaople to be happy?

      WFB thrived upon what the studio created 30 years ago. They managed to recycled every fantasy stereotypes, creating something both unique but also familiar to everyone.
      And now you want to believe GW will be able to create someything better from scratch whereas they only do that to hide from the competition by using ip laws instead of being simply the best?

      • I never said I believe GW will create something better. I said people hate change and if something changes for the good or the bad there will be a tidal wave of complaints directly relative to the popularity and size of the brand name.

      • Shawn

        I’d argue that’s hard to be the best, when you don’t have any original IP, or very little IP, of your own and everyone is cutting into sales by making generic scale models and your losing money because of it. I think this is a step in the right direction for Fantasy and GW. Even though some of the stuff Chapter House was doing was wrong, they, and the book “Spots the Space Marine: Defense of the Fiddler,” opened up GWs eyes to the fact they have very little original IP.
        In order to make money you need to protect you investments, or competitors will steal your work and sell it for their own. GW needs to revamp who and what they’re are so they can effectively protect themselves financially.

      • Ronge

        According to the commenter below that pretends to have seen the new edition there is not that much change, so you are right. AoS will only be another recycling, a rehashing of past and long lost glory.

    • Alexandre Comtois

      And of course, people will continue to play it. Some of the locals made noise about continuing to play 7th after 8th dropped but nothing came of it. People get used to change and life goes on.

      • Some do yes. Indeed when 8th dropped there was an uproar of rage, particularly amongst the tournament crowd having to deal with things like random charges.

        What I saw was for two years after 8th dropped, most of those guys left for warmahordes and then came back at the tail end of 2012.

        I suspect we’ll see similar things here.

    • SacTownBrian

      I’m excited, fantasy is my first love. I’m lucky enough to not worry about cost as well. Just give me cool.

    • Razer Free

      Yeah let’s take the hate out of BOLS and write our complaints on GWs forum, facebook and youtube… oh wait…

      • As has been pointed out below, the level of hate was not lessened when GW had their own forum. In fact, when they had their own forum it was probably the most toxic place on the internet.

        • Razer Free

          And closing everything obviously solved the problem.

          • I’m kind of confused how this conclusion is being reached. My response was that people use the internet to complain and that upon release there will be a flood of complaints (regardless of if the changes are good or bad)

            GW have or not having forums does not change that response. I haven’t discussed anything about GW solving a problem by closing their forums. If GW had forums, the same level of hostility would still be present, literally nothing would change other that another forum would exist where people would be spewing hate like they used to when GW had forums.

          • Razer Free

            I was being ironic. Closing their social network with customers didn’t end their toxicity, it just made them go somewhere else and gave them yet ANOTHER reason not to trust GW. Today people feel like they’re not being heard more than ever before.

          • Thats true, but what it did for them was not having to deal with it (for good or ill they felt (and I agree) that listening to the endless negativity wave was bad for them and so closed that avenue)

            Would that affect sales today? Hard to say really but I’m leaning towards no. If GW had their forums today I still think that things from a sales perspective would be around the same.

            It is certainly not the norm to not have a forum or avenue of complaint, but I know for a fact from having worked some of those for other companies that most complaints go nowhere anyway even when there is a forum for complaining. Its kind of a placebo.

    • EWOKM8?

      GW do not do themselves any favours with the arrogance and total lack of PR but yes you are right, complaining really is like peeing the wind in GW’s case. They are royal bastards. They know it, we know it and its been that way for years now yet they are still in business so some people must like them.

    • Adam Murray

      Unhappy people make more noise than content people.

      • benn grimm

        Only in a free democracy. In North Korea, its the other way round…

    • lordofexcess

      That doesn’t matter as much as what happens to the cash registers. Also this is BoLS does anyone make non-trollish comments here? Seems rare.

      I hope GW succeeds and finds a new way back to a golden age. I doubt that will happen but that is my hope. This is from someone who hasn’t been serious about GW in years and has been an on again off again self professed “hater” for awhile now. I’ve honestly given that up and come to the realization that GW is just a company, like any other company. They need to make a profit and the marketplace, consumer behavior, endless train of 3rd party companies knocking their stuff off, etc. has forced their hand over and over. So GW games are what they are. Good bad or otherwise. Ranting and complaining doesn’t change the situation.

      I hope they knock it out of the park on the new WHFB. I’d love to see GW come roaring back as an innovator in tabletop gaming.

  • More or less exactly what I had assumed was happening.

    Mind you, I’m not actually sure if GW themselves put that much conscious thought into the process, because this is a company that can’t even keep its own supply lines straight and still believes “rule through fear” is a viable strategy for long-term financial success that I’m hesitant to attribute willful intent to any action they take, but that may just be because I’m a GW-hating MaliFinityMachine fanboy who thinks GW is the scourge of the earth and that the entire populations of Nottingham and Memphis are acceptable casualties to rid the world of their foul stench with cleansing nuclear fire. #shotsfired #comeatmebro

    • xNickBaranx

      Even GW’s most seemingly misguided ideas are the result of a very deliberate thought process. I worked for GW in the late 90’s/early 2000’s. They always knew when they were bucking conventional business practice and always had an explanation as for why. They are a savvy but unconventional company. I can’t back all of their choices by any means, but I do get annoyed when people assert that GW management are a bunch of dithering idiots with no rhyme or reason to their approach. They definitely are not.

    • Rich_B

      As a non-GW employed resident of Nottingham and on behalf of Memphis residents, *bleep!* you buddy! That’s a bad case of ex-gf syndrome you’re nursing towards GW there… Maybe put some chamois creme on that!

      #shotsreturned 😉

      • Okay, fine, Nottingham can stay. Memphis has got to go, though. Nothing of redeeming value comes from that place unless you have an unhealthy obsession with barbecue.

        • benn grimm

          What’s your beef with bbq? And yeah, Roy Orbison, Elvis and BB King records, nice places to cycle and a PYRAMID!!!! yeah nothing of redeeming value… 😉

          • I like barbecue. Just not All. The. Time. I swear it’s the only damn thing to eat in that entire city. Besides, I’m a coastal kid. The best dead cow in the world (which, btw, is Japanese) pales in comparison to salmon that has an ocean-to-plate turnaround time of less than 30 minutes.

          • benn grimm

            No way, best dead cow comes from Brazil or Argentina. Its good you like fish, you’ll probably live longer, but as Reddog says above mmmm…beef bbq…;)

          • mikethefish

            True story – that Kobe beef bs is way overrated

          • Da Masta Cheef

            I live in the opposite corner of Tennessee, and I’m sure I’m safely out of range of Memphis so nuke away pal!

            lol

          • Reddog

            MMMMM…beef bbq.

  • Jet Black

    A) GW does not “need” to charge idiotically high prices.

    B) Their new elves aren’t going to be any more protected, unless they change them so much that they are no longer recognizable and don’t call them elves. At which point, just make a new faction.

    C) I loved WHFB, and now GW has killed it. Hopefully the rest of the company dies soon as well, so we don’t have to hear you bootlicking apologists bray anymore.

    • vonevilstein

      “I loved WHFB, and now GW has killed it. Hopefully the rest of the company dies soon as well, so we don’t have to hear you bootlicking apologists bray anymore.”

      Lol. The internet. Home of rational thought.

    • GW is going down any day now ~ Internet circa 2004

      • And the company has indeed been in a long downward trend since about then. Sometimes ships take a long time to sink.

        • Sometimes.

          Other times its just wishful thinking or sour grapes.

          • Read the shareholder reports and decide for yourself. GW has been hurting for a long time, and they’re spending all their time and money on bigger and bigger buckets to bail water with rather than on patching the leaks like they ought to be.

          • Oh I know. Their prices are the biggest component to their issues.

        • Da Masta Cheef

          Personally I think they beached it so as to maintain their own status quo.

  • benn grimm

    Unfortunately your logic is flawed; elves will still be elves, ogres will still be ogres, ratmen will still be ratmen and halflings will still be hobbits, alienating half the existing player base will change this not a jot. As much as you might kid yourself that you understand overall studio policy direction(if such a thing even exists) you can’t make fantasy this solid locked down IP fortress, its just not possible.

    Even if it was, and somehow they manage to blag ownership of all the stuff they knocked off over the years, gw’s flagship product is ‘space marines’, which they can’t own, don’t own and never will be able to own, because as generic terms for futuristic super soldiers go, its about as unique as a roll of toilet paper.

    On a lighter note, just got an Age of Sigmar poster from the local store, man it looks awesome! 🙂

    • euansmith

      I guess they could bring out fantastic new minis at a low price to encourage new and old players to buy entire armies… and then ramp up the price again…

      • benn grimm

        Are you sure you don’t work at the studio…? 😉

    • jeff white

      you mean i can get that stuff, on a roll?

  • Aparter

    Hmm, The Elves were united right until the Sundering, which happened in -2723 IC, Wood Elves founded Athel Loren in -1500 IC, Sigmar was born in -30 IC. So unless GW completely reboots the Fluff, it doesn’t make sense.

    • I think destroying all of reality counts as a “complete reboot”, but, well, we’ll know in a month…

      • Aparter

        Yeah, that’s right, if we suppose, that the Age of Sigmar takes place after the End Times, but the author mentions Horus Heresy as synonym to it, and also says:” During the Age of Sigmar there was only one nation of Elves.” But this statement isn’t really true. Only this concerns me.

    • Nameless

      I was thinking just that when reading the article. but then I suspect that it will be set after the end times, and the text in the last white dwarf would seem to support that.

      still rather confusing haveing age of Sigmar as the name if its not set in the age of Sigmar. but then they never brought Caledor Dragontamers prophacy of demise to compleation so they probably know less about their own lore at this point than most fans.

      • Da Masta Cheef

        ‘still rather confusing haveing age of Sigmar as the name if its not set in the age of Sigmar.’

        Its simple really: He is Risen!!! (oh wait, that’ll just piss off a whole new demographic of people…nevermind).

      • Aparter

        The most depressing thing about the Age of Sigmar is that in any case our beloved characters are dead or not even born, and i don’t hope, that GW in the current state is able to produce new cool characters…

  • euansmith

    The last survivor of the End Time, “I wonder what happens if I press this button marked System Reboot..?”

    One would hope that GW would use the chance of restarting the entire Universe to have a go at completely overhauling the rules system and coming up with something new and elegant.

    • vonevilstein

      You never know…;). Apparently Lotr and Hobbit were pretty good. Never played them myself mind.

      • LOTR was a great system. Could never get it to catch on not because it wasn’t a good game but because communities won’t pick up games no one else is playing (its a self feeding problem)

      • Hands down the best core system GW has ever designed, and the version of it that appears in The Hobbit did a good job of filing off the rough edges and addressing the balance issues that plagued older versions and it was accompanied by some of the best minis GW has ever done.

        It’s a shame GW has all but given up on it, though I can’t really blame them as the game never achieved the popularity it deserved.

        • Nameless

          in many respects it is just the same as fantasy taken to the next level. Games workshop don’t want to invest into releasing new content-> people don’t buy the old content they already own -> Games Workshop decides to cut releases for system.

          a lot of the Lord of the Rings stuff is out of production, there where very limited releases for part 2 and 3 of the Hobbit. 8th ed of fantasy was out for 5 years, and three army books didn’t see a rerlease. instead we see Eldar and Space marines and knights getting updated in less than 2 years. is anyone suprised that 40K out sells Fantasy that outsells the Hobbit?

          • Theik

            This is largely how I feel about the whole situation. When I got back into Warhammer it was literally just release after release after release for 40k. I think it was 4 months of 40k in a row, into a very minor fantasy release, and then back to 40k for ages.

            End times stuff seems to have sold VERY WELL, so it’s not like nobody was interested in fantasy, it was just the fact that Games Workshop wasn’t interested in making anything new for it.

    • Assuming they’re CAPABLE of designing something elegant. Occasionally they get something right (LotR, Tau Empire 6th Ed, Necrons 3rd Ed), but it’s so uncommon as to seem accidental rather than intentional.

      • Muninwing

        you really just love to hate them, don’t you? the vast negativity and spite coming out of each successive post is… baffling.

        • No, actually, I really want to love them, which is probably even worse.

          • nurglitch

            It is. You sound like an abusive husband.

          • Oh it’s definitely an abusive relationship, but I’m not the one doing the abusing…

  • Sean Parker

    Yo dawg! We heard you like complaining!

  • jeff white

    economics. as in neo-classical idealized supply side economics? as in when the world runs dry the techies will fix it so we can always sell more economics… ? eek.

  • jeff white

    bugman was never generic… people will find any reason to dump the stunties and suck the pointy-eared dry

  • Shawn

    I never played fantasy. Back then I was mainly into rpgs like D&D and I hated the look of the models and didn’t care too much for what fluff I knew. Now fast forward a couple of decades and I am more of a wargamer (warmachine,40k) and I find myself interested in the new WHF. If the models are cool, the rules reasonable, and the entry price right, I just might dive in.

    • Well, IN THEORY, Fantasy’s painfully high entry cost is one of the problems 9th should address, but whether or not it actually will is a coin-toss at best, given’s GW’s habit of “MORE! BIGGER! SHINIER!” game updates.

      • Shawn

        I completely agree Straylight. I hoping for the best, but expecting the worst 😉

        • Best not to get your hopes up at all where GW is concerned. Expect nothing; that way, anything at all will be a pleasant surprise.

          • Shawn

            Not to worry on that front Straylight. My wallet has limited depth, and after living expenses, will go to WH40k, Warmachine, Death Watch, and D&D first. If I like what I see, well, I might put some away for a Fantasy Fund of sorts, or the Sigmar Fund for sword & sorcery warfare fun.

  • Rhaen

    While you do make some interesting points. How do you supposed could GW differentiate the “new” elves enough to protect them from knock-offs?

    • Gridloc

      Blue skin or purple? I’m sure if they change something along those lines, maybe they will give them tails? Any of it can add that needed foothold on look we own the rights to this.

      Plus if tails, that’s another add-on kit to $ell.

  • deuce1984

    this excites me.

  • Alexander Thompson

    Reminds me of Miniwargaming pulling the plug because they couldn’t afford to to go on without the GW teat to suckle. This site and sites like it need us around and if we all rage quit their done.

    Warmahordes don’t pay the bills.

    • Gridloc

      Warmahordes doesn’t pay the bills, its very sad. Our local store loves warmahordes, its huge, but the game isn’t about selling, so the owners still push for the 40k guys since well that brings in money.

      Also warmahordes is discounted online much more than brick and mortar stores can which also hurts. It really is a shame, we try to run new escalation leagues in wm/h as that does help a little with sales, but unlike the power of codex creep, will never outsell 40k.

      • Alexander Thompson

        Yep. Just yesterday I got an email from The War Store for a summer sale. Bunch of Warmachine stuff. Discounted.

  • Bobsyouruncle

    I always thought the elves split long before Sigmar came on the scene because wasn’t it dark elves in disguise that triggered off the War of the Beard with the Dwarfs and that started long before the empire formed . Plus , how do you create IP proof elves , weather it’s high , wood or dark it’s a fairly generic idea .

  • effinger2

    Look, at this point I am done with WFB. I’ve played it since the 80’s, bought all the rule versions, bought/ played with 8 armies, everyone around here has multiple armies so frankly we don’t need any thing else. .. apart from a better set of rules. If they drastically change the rules AND the armies we will just stop buying anything new and go back to whatever version we vote worked best for us. The rules have never really gotten better over time, just changed something but made something else worse. I don’t foresee the new rules as anything spectacularly wonderful. They aren’t capable of that any more. We are sick and tired of the constant changes and prices. I will be shocked if they are good and we buy them.

    • Ben

      But it appears that they ARE trying to solve some of your issues:
      (1) Rules Changes: This all opinion and conjecture, but I’ve heard 8th is heralded as the “best” edition for most players. Barring a few quirky things (like the big spells), people have seemed to enjoy the edition. And as the article above posted, GW is trying with this new relaunch to lower the barrier of entry for new players.
      (2) Your a “long beard” and while a long standing customer, you admitted your not buying much anymore because you have what you need. This has been GW’s problem for a while. So this relaunch is clearly aimed to go after new blood. Which is what any business needs to do. Frankly, I think GW has given plenty of fan service to the old guard with the End Times.
      My suggestion, is to keep an open mind and see if the new edition or 8.5 as it’s rumored to be, will meet your gaming needs. If not, best of luck to you in whatever game you play.

      • effinger2

        Well if all that that you say is true then we will all be happy and I will certainly like to get new stuff. Having said that… I have no confidence that it WILL be true. You know what they say, ‘Hope springs eternal’! 🙂

  • I don’t see them completely destroying dwarves or orcs. It’s frustrating whenever I read about IP protection, people imply that there is absolutely no way to differentiate your products from those of your competitors if you can’t 100% control all IP rights to every tiny aspect of the product.

    News flash; there are.

    1. Make the product dramatically better that those of the competition. GW is usually great about this with models, it’s the super old crappy models (ie: dwarve warriors) that people often try to replace with other better knockoffs.

    2. Make the game affordable. If the market is demonstrating that it values product A at $20 and you set the price at $40, you will not sell much of product A.

    3. Make it unique. Just because you call something ‘high elves’ doesn’t mean that your high elves are identical to someone else’s. A great example of this in practice is D&D elves vs GW elves. D&D elves are creepy looking with crappy backstories about nature with every thin in nature having its own kind of elf (I wonder if there are mud elves?). GW elves are very different physically and have very cool backstories and history.

    GW could call a 10 foot tall super muscular furry thing with a pig’s head a ‘High Elf’ and it would be just as valid as the way they are now. It’s not the name which matters, it’s the CONTENT which matters. Make unique content and we will have a reason to play your game.

  • WestFargo Dave

    I asked this before and I still want to know: Is this the Age of Sigmar Heldenhammer or from the Age before he changed his name from Sigmar Lipschitz?

  • SacTownBrian

    No comment about generic vampires and mummies. The undead factions need something unique for ip protection as well.

  • Spiritof69

    To be honest, while I find the fluff amusing, I just want to paint cool models and play a fun game. I also don’t want that game to change to the point that the investment I have becomes either unplayable or less fun. It’s a very personal decision. I quit 40k and sold my huge IG army not because of the stupid IP-protecting name, but because of the changes in the rules that made all my beautiful tanks blow up when a Tau looked at them funny. Fluff change sucked, but it was the gameplay change that did it for me.

    Now I have two huge WFB armies, High Elves and O&G. Both are under fluff threat because of their generic/Tolkein-esque nature. Fine, call them Adeptus Forestus and Adeptus Greenbuttus, I don’t care as long as the game is still good. But change the rules so they are no longer fun (for me) to play and I’m out. GW already has thousands of my dollars, and I’m good for a lot more if they don’t screw this up. I’m guessing that for most of us, it’s the same thing.

  • MarcoT

    I have no doubt the miniatures and background will be awesome. I’m far more curious how the rules will be. I think 40k has become a convulted unelegant mess, but releases like War of the Rings and Dreadfleet (really, it’s a fun game!) did show there’s some skill in house.

    Let’s hope for the best.

  • SLeibniz

    The analysis of GW’s intention is sound but the predictions about the new setting are wrong or unlikely.

    Age of Sigmar is not set in the past of the Warhammer world, but very likely on a totally different realm that happens to be very similar to the old world.

    I had the chance to spend about 20 minutes with the upcoming book Age of Sigmar by A. Lanning (a novel, not the game) that deals with the aftermath of the end times. The prologue makes it very clear that Sigmar survives and the whole plot takes place after the end times. Nothing that I have read suggests that there is any time travel involved. It is just a continuation of the story on a much broader scale. I think it is safe to say that the game of the same name follows the story of book and doesn’t establish a totally different setting.

    In the prologue Sigmar survives and pulls the winds of magics through the gap into the warp. In the process the pure untouched currents of the warp are tainted with the personifications of the winds – the Incarnates. This is the birth of eight new minor gods. But most of the book is not about sigmar or the incarnate gods directly, only three chapters as far as I could see were written from their perspective. The rest of the book is an ordinary fantasy adventure story. The book follows Martellus Mann, a reikguard quartermaster who was slain in the end times, but is reborn in Sigmarshall, the domain of Sigmar. I then skipped some hundred pages forward so I don’t know what happened in the aftermath, but in the middle of the book, he has gathered a large party of heroes from many realms and realities in a quest for something called the spirit mill or soul mill or something like this. I know for sure that there are several worlds and that the protagonist can travel from one to the other but I didn’t read a chapter where this was described in person and I don’t know if this is part of the game world. In the middle of the books there is a huge betrayal, sigmarshall is under siege by the armies of the chaos gods. incarnate fights against incarnate and all are cast out from the warp. Mann starts a search for sigmar in the believe that he was reborn somewhere. The second half of the book is set on a world called Regalia. And here it gets interesting: Regalia is the only area/realm/world that has a map in the book. Regalia looks like the old world or earth and has very familiar regions and city names, etc. But there are some huge alterations: there is no Ulthuan, but a huge landbridge that connects Canada with Scandinavia. There are no elven or dwarven sounding cities or lands but strange sounding names in the Americas and Africa that don’t fit any race of the old setting. There is no empire, but lots of different states in Europe and Asia – Nuln, Middenheim, etc are there, but Altdorf is not. There are more things you can deduce from the map if you assume that it represents the setting of the game, which I strongly think it does. Mann finally arrives in the city Heldenheim that is build in the Worlds Edge Mountains just in time to visit the crowning of emperor Karl Franz where he announces his plan to conquer the whole world. Mann thinks that he has found Sigmar and the book jumps to the epilog. Sigmar is chained somewhere and starts to dwindle, but then he smiles and proclaims that his great work to eliminate the chaos once and for all has only started. He vows to conquer the warp.

    I think it is pretty obvious that the game will be set in this new world. Why would they establish all this in the book when the game doesn’t use it at all, but I haven’t seen any actual game material (though there is a slim chance that I get a glimpse this weekend – fingers crossed), so take this into account.

    • Vvvion

      Are there any Lizardmen and Skaven cities? And is this.Heldenheim the same castle that played a role in the end time books?

      • SLeibniz

        There were no aztec-sounding regions, especially not in South America. There is a Skavenblight though, but it is located east of the World Edge Mountains. I am pretty sure that there was a Hell Pit too. I don’t know about the castle, but lots of locations were moved around a little bit or had their size altered.

        • Vvvion

          Thanks! Can I ask some more questions?
          1. Is Kislev there and is it Part of the empire?
          2. What about the chaos?
          3. Are there any hints for the rumoured factions?
          4. Do you have a photo of the book Cover?
          5. Is bretonia gone?
          6. What about athel Loren and nagarroth?
          7. Who are the incarnates. Some have died at the end of the end times.
          8. You mentioned that are different worlds. Are These planets or a multiverse like the rumoured bubble?
          I really appreciate you taking your time to answer These.

          • SLeibniz

            1. Kislev is there, but there is no Empire in the map. Karl Franz is emperor, so there has to be a country that he rules, but it is not in the map.
            2. I don’t know. I haven’t seen anything like “Khornetown” or “Nurgleville” and there is no region called chaos wastes. Instead at the north- and southpole there are a handful of pyramids, but I can’t remember if they were labeled or not.
            3. No, there are way two many cities and states and the map does not show which ones belong to the same faction if there are any.
            4. No
            5. I can’t recall to have read the label Bretonnia, but this does necessarily mean that it is not there. The map is quite large and I can’t remember everything. There are at least some familiar Bretonnian cities.
            6. Athel Loren: don’t know. No, there is not, there are cities in North America, but they sound very strange. I don’t know how to describe them, but it has a Lovecraftian vibe to me with lots of “thul”, “yl” “dakk” syllables (not actual examples).
            7. Nagash (loayal as far as i know), Gelt (traitor), the elves (called archelves – one of them traitor, but i don’t know which, maybe the book leaves this open, or I haven’t spotted it), Grimgor (definitely loyal). Ungrim is in sigmarshall, too, but i don’t recall if he is a god or not. But he is with sigmar when he sends Mann on his mission.
            8. I don’t know. As far as I could see they were called worlds and realms and not bubbles, realities or planets. But you really have to read the book thoroughly to know for sure. The protagonists us a labyrinth made out of the fabric of dreams to travel from realm to realm, but it works just like the usual fantasy portal trope.

          • Vvvion

            Thanks, mate! A pity about the photo. Over at dakkdakka they mock you because you have no Smartphone. But I am really grateful for the stuff you gave US. Hope you get your hands on the actual Game soon.

    • AbaddonTheSpoiled

      There is no GW author named Lannig. Your whole post smells fishy.

      • James__P

        There is Andy Lanning, who has been a writing partner of Dan Abnett for many years. I’m not aware of him doing any non-comic stuff though and the only GW property I believe he has been involved in is that Titan comic series (co-written with Dan Abnett).

      • SLeibniz

        … yet.

  • Da Masta Cheef

    “The game had itself grown in size and scale; the start up costs to the customer are high and intimidating…”

    You do realize that GW sells 40k too right?

  • Mathew G. Smith

    Isn’t it the Age of Sigmar because it’s the new world he builds in the epilogue of The End Times? The add copy definitely places it after those events, not in the distant past.

  • Marky

    Anyone trying to use IP to keep afloat is doomed. Been to your local record store or video rental place recently? You could get everything they sell online, and it could be “bought” for less on the net. The rest of the world is not the USA bit the rest of the world ships there. IP stops people manufacturing a copy in some parts of the world… But what’s the use in that when you live in a global economy?

  • Barolde

    Personally I think this could be a double-edged sword for GW. Being a longtime player of their games (20years) I believe this could make or break things for them. For me Warhammer fantasy had become nigh unplayable due to the shear unbalance of the game, and the ludicrous rules for End Times were laughable. This is the opportunity for GW to make Fantasy a truly great game to smash all their rivals. Alas the cynic in me thinks that this will yet be another “quick fix” to an already unenjoyable rules system. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong.

    • Matthew Selig

      That’s an interesting perspective. I have been playing fantasy for about the same amount of time, and I would say 8th is the best Wahammer has ever been. I guess that goes to show you cant please every one.

  • ChubToad

    But, but you didn’t mention Lizardmen…why???

  • Erik Setzer

    The Age of Sigmar era is still based on basic fantasy tropes, so that does nothing to “protect the IP.” They don’t have IP to protect. They’d have to go off the walls insanely different to have something that no one could copy (or so they might think), and at that point it won’t look right mixed with our current armies.

    So in order to fight a problem that they can’t really combat (except by bringing prices down in order to make it less likely people will buy something more reasonably priced that looks close enough), you really think they’d wipe out all their game’s history, the looks of the races, EVERYTHING, just to try to “protect the IP?”

    So the lawyers have really taken over, and they’re driving this train to Idiotville?

    The setting wasn’t any more “stale” than 40K, and yet 40K didn’t have an issue. It was the cost, which could have been fixed by not trying to jack up ten small infantry models to $60 like a pack of raging lunatics, and by re-introducing skirmish rules. They made the decision to get rid of smaller scale game rules for 40K and WFB, only adding them back to 40K as a $17 digital download on top of the $85 rulebook (so only people who have the ability to use an e-reader during games can even use them), because they wanted to push larger battles. They’re aiming 40K toward larger battles.

    Don’t give me this BS that they “had” to blow up the game. Because by your reasoning, 40K HAS to blow up now. After all the stuff they released this year, they need to wipe it all out. The background is stalled just like WFB (and had the same situation with them wiping out a worldwide campaign’s results). The start-up costs are obscene. They can’t “protect the IP,” as shown by all the companies making alternate models and addition pieces and all the Chinese companies continuing to make resin castings. The only “protection” they did was change the Imperial Guard codex to some silly pseudo-Latin name, and do similar with Storm Troopers, because they couldn’t copyright those names, and now they wish people would stop calling Space Marines by their name because they got egg on their face trying to sue someone for using the name “Space Marine.”

    Maybe if they stopped trying to “protect the IP” and sue everyone while attempting to create a niche series of games that are expensive to get into with a monopolistic approach to sales, and started approaching things like they *want* customers and they want stores to actually carry their products (rather than having a policy that really makes it so that it’s more logical for an FLGS to tell them to go piss off), they wouldn’t have problems with sales with a game that’s got 30 years of history behind it.

    But no, let’s ignore the real problems, and focus on stupid BS that won’t help the setting or the game. Yeah. Good job, guys. Top notch job, there.

    One question: How much are their legal eagles paying you?

    • Ben

      Do you want a hug? A cookie? You have a lot of rage for a game of toy soldiers. GW will either sink or swim. That’s life. It happens to businesses all the time. My suggestion for you is to move on to a different game, it’ll help your blood pressure.

    • bugeatergames

      Fantasy only accounted for 12% of their sales last year. It needed a restart.

      • Erik Setzer

        It only needed some fixing. Not a “restart.”

  • Jay Shepherd

    I’d say it’d be impossible to protect an IP that utilizes standard fantasy races, even if it’s a unified “elves” race, there can always be knock offs. Maybe I’m wrong?

  • Kirosendo

    Excuse me but am I the only one to have choked on the fact that elves were a united race during the coming of sigmar?
    These were time of legends, of that there is no doubt but trouble in the elven race started way before manlings thought there was a world beyond their cave.
    Malekith and his druchii compatriots started there shenanigans with the asur before the war of vengeance or as the elves called it the war of the beard. An affront payed in by the blood of caledor II in the founders square of tor alessi.
    Although the death of a Phoenix king is always fun for dwarfs it was less so for the populace of the elthin arvan (elven colonies of the old world).
    They sought refuge in the then called Loren lacoi and became known as the Asrai (wood elves).

    I realize that the fluff is wide and time line spread out but it’s always cool to know as much as you can from the cool fluff that is warhammer fantasy.
    And unfortunately elves were as one while malekith was fighting with king Snorri against the eternal enemy (daemons).

  • dinodoc

    “The game had itself grown in size and scale; the start up costs to
    the customer are high and intimidating, thus new players were not
    getting into the hobby.”

    Emperor, help us if they ever look at 40k.

    • nurglitch

      No worries, 40k makes money.

  • Master Avoghai

    However, I fail to understand why GW made the Lizardmen go away : They are a creation like skavens and were there even before the elves…

    So according to fluff or IP protection, they should have remained on the shelves…

    • GiftoftheMagi

      Oh I am sure they will be back. THe End TImes book has them escaping mostly intact…with flying pyramid ships.

  • MasterBlaster

    As far as i am concerned – as long as i can keep playing y rats and they don’t have to be re-based i really couldn’t give a sh*t either way.

  • Changing faction designs will not stop people from making fantasy compatible models, pretending it will is silly, and changing the name is going to accomplish nothing. Maybe the reason Mantic’s zombies sell so well is they are a marginally better kit than the crappy GW zombie box that also happens to be a bad deal.

  • lordofexcess

    GW needs to “reboot” 40K too. Hopefully the dial in the changes with WHFB and do the same thing to 40K in a year or two.

  • Michael Hughes

    being someone that held on to their 1990’s lead and early pewter Skaven core troops and only augmented it with the larger pieces over the years, I am so glad now that I decided to go with that unique GW only named pieces :)… Now what to do with all those forest goblins and spider riders I own…

  • xxvaderxx

    Dwarfts invented by Tolkien?, stopped reading right there.

    • GiftoftheMagi

      The ‘current’ version of Dwarves were invented by Tolkien (scottish-sounding, beer swilling, elf-hating, gruff, obsessed with beards, etc), and GW DIRECTLY used THAT version in their game.

      • xxvaderxx

        He took it from northen mithologic nilfgard and so on, the only truly original thing from tolkien are the elves caracterization and that is it.

  • GiftoftheMagi

    A while back I had a rather interesting conversion with a group of people staring at the GW shelves. My area has a decently sized role-playing community, and they were a group looking for compatible models for their campaigns and maps. While some of the GW stuff fit the bill, most did not or use far too expensive for them. One gentleman said GW is missing out on a potential money-making by NOT catering to the RPG community.

    I explained to the man that this is a wargame with its own story. He countered with that by making it it own story, they cut out sales from people that need more generic but high-quality models. I asked him then why doesn’t he go to Reaper or the dozen or so other companies out there that supply the RPG community. He returned with that most of them do not have GW’s quality, or cost more per model in many cases with NO conversion possibilities. I countered with then why don’t you complain to those companies? ANd on and on.

    So I guess my point is…will re-creating the game to the point it is its own unique entity in the best interest for the company’s growth?