Do the LVO 40k Results Really Shock You?

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The LVO has come and gone, and the top finishers didn’t seem to fool anyone.  Come see that and some new Chaos Daemon tech below!

 

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Eldar took the top two spots at LVO this year, which really didn’t seem to surprise anyone. Checkout our tactical breakdown of the brutal lists and checkout out newest Chaos Daemon tech from the new Curse of the Wolfen supplement!

Alex Harrison 1st Overall – Eldar List (pdf)

Eldar CAD
Autarch Sky Runner, Jetbike, Haywire Grenades, Forceshield, The Path of Command
Windriders X 3, Scatter Lasers X 3
Windriders X 3, Scatter Lasers X 3
Windriders X 3, Scatter Lasers X 2

Warhost of the Pale Courts (From the FW Doom of Mymeara book) – Aspect Lord Shrine (means has to take – 3 Aspect Units of the same type) Craftworld Trait: Disciples of Vaul
Farseer, Jetbike
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Warp Spiders x 5, Exarch
Vaul’s Support Battery – Dcannon
Vaul’s Support Battery – DCannon

Wraith Construct – Skatach Wraithknight, Deathshroud Cannon

Aspect host
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch

Aspect host
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch

Ordos Xenos Inquisitor (2x servo skulls)

Sean Hayden’s 2nd Overall – Eldar / Dark Eldar (pdf)

Eldar CAD
Autarch
Windriders X 3, Scatter Lasers X 3
Windriders X 3, Scatter Lasers X 3
Windriders X 3, Scatter Lasers X 3
Warp Spiders X 5, Exarch
Void Shield Generator
Warp Hunter

Aspect host
Swooping Hawks X 8, Exarch
Swooping Hawks X 8, Exarch
Swooping Hawks X 8, Exarch

Corspethief Claw Formation
Talos X 5, Splinter Cannon X 5, Ichor Injector X 3

 

LVO Results Will Shock You? – Long War Episode 38

Video:

  • JP

    Oh look, armies spamming the most broken units from the most broken codex won. SHOCKER.
    I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

    • ImAlpharius

      Where else would you throw up?

      • Eric Buchanan

        Well I mean the purpose of throwing up is usually to expel the contents from you body. I usually do it in a sink or toliet. In a pinch a trashcan.

        • Bradley Macduff

          ive done it once outside in desperation, run right out my backdoor and threw up in the grass

          • Eric Buchanan

            Upon further review, I think it would be easier to list the places I haven’t thrown up.

            The Moon
            A Spaceship
            Back seat of a Edsel

            Thats about it.

          • Scissorheart

            I haven’t thrown up in the following places:

            My grandfathers bedroom
            Whilst riding a horse
            In Preston

          • Chris. K Cook

            You are all soft.

            Vomit Free since 2003 baby!

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            the first reading of the 6th Ed rules was rough, wasn’t it?

          • JP

            It wasn’t the 6th edition rules themselves that were that bad. It was codices that came after that were written to exploit those rules to the utmost that elicited that reaction.

      • JP

        THROUGH MY EYES.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        in someone else’s mouth?

    • benn grimm

      Begs the question; why actually bother?

      • JP

        I know. Look at that list. What the heck do you shoot at? The Warp Spiders will just pop back into cover or out of sight completely wasting your shots and the jetbikes get ridiculous saves improved by the HQs. You can’t even catch them to charge them either. They’re almost untouchable. All I can think of is spamming Barrage Blasts that can hit anywhere on the table and lots of Interceptor. Basically spam Basilisks and Hydra Flak Tanks. Even that probably won’t do it because they’re static and the Eldar are mobile. Can you think of anything better?

        • benn grimm

          No, not really, spamming Wyverns or other indirect fire weapons may work for a few lists, but it wouldn’t be much fun and then you’d lose to the other armies you didn’t tailor for. Jetbikes and WS are not exactly unkillable, they are just insanely points efficient and insanely annoying to play against. For me the ‘Dar just suck the fun out of this edition, my only real solution is to avoid them, which is no solution at all when you play at events and every other army is Craftworld Brie…

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          you are right, ignores cover barrage weapons are the only solution, bubblewrapped with hordes of cheap fearless troops for board control.

    • TweetleBeetle

      It isn’t the most broken codex. I haven’t lost to it yet in 7th and I play Orks.

      • JP

        How? I REALLY want to know. Green Tide?

        • ZeeLobby

          It’s tweetleGWbeetle. He just lies.

        • bginer

          Ignore him. He knows not of what he speaks.

        • Sebastien Bazinet

          He plays alone

      • SacTownBrian

        It’s never about the codex, it’s the codex n the hands of great players.

        • RUNE

          muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        hilarious. Are you playing against 12 year olds?

      • Talos2

        I can only assume that means you haven’t played them? The ork codex is a car crash. It took the really weak last edition and made them worse. Genius.

    • Richard Mitchell

      To be fair, 40k is not a tournament game. I mean you can force it to try and pretend it is, but the rules, company support, and codices from the ground up focus on narrative and not tournament play. Basically the narrative games you play at your FLGS have way more street cred than the 40k LVO. Sounds mean but playing competitive 40k and celebrating it is like throwing a party because you switched all the light bulbs in your house to potato power. I mean potatoes can produce current but they are way more fun to eat.

      • Richard Mitchell

        So play your armies have a good time and don’t get too stirred up about people who won a game which was never designed from almost every gaming angle to not be a tournament focused game.

  • surfpenguin

    Cookie-Cutter armies fighting cookie-cutter battles. Does this surprise me at all? Not a bit.

  • DeadlyYellow

    I would never make it in the tourney crowd. I prefer variety in my armies.

    • benn grimm

      I love a good tourney, the latest Eldar codex, not so much…

    • Deacon Ix

      Agreed, while I play to win (show me someone who doesn’t and I’ll show you a liar) these lists make me cringe.

    • ZeeLobby

      Which is sad, the majority of tourney goers are great people with fun lists. You are guaranteed to run into at least one of these though, and your game will be over by the second turn. It’s not their fault. It’s GWs fault for not giving a damn.

  • PrimoFederalist

    And yet LVO grows every year, but you guys should all keep dumping on how other people like to enjoy the game.

    • Bradley Macduff

      the competitive game may grown but thats to be expected the casual gamers are going away. in fact there being shoved out by them to the point there in a minority. and thats funny because the games rules do nothing but cater to a more casual and relaxed audience

      but heaven forbid something like that be true and people be concerned by it. creativity and fun are dying in 40k while exactly the opposite community is sticking around despite everything gw has done up to this point since 5th edition ended being to the contrary. if anything that surprises me

      • PrimoFederalist

        I guess you aren’t aware of the incredibly popular “narrative campaign” that the LVO hosts.

        Gee, I guess making blanket accusations out of ignorance isn’t all that helpful…

    • Eric Buchanan

      No one is saying that the LVO is not a successful event. Just that as a side effect it reinforces spamming of units and netlists in some people’s minds. Which many of us feel isn’t in the spirit of the game.

      • Its competitors that do it, not the LVO.

        • Eric Buchanan

          Yes thats why I called it a side effect and not the direct cause by LVO. The bigger LVO gets, the more driven people will be to win. But also, the more press and more widely know the winning lists will be. In turn more people will play those lists or similiar lists propogating the spamming of units that are at the top of the power curve.

          Reece isn’t sitting there twirling his moustache and swimming in a pool of money laughing about all of us being left playing against 70 warp spiders or war convocations for the rest of our life.

          Its just a natural result of competition.

          • Chaos_Unbound

            Basically what happened with Magic, the bigger the pro scene gets the more it affects the small games. Can guarantee back in Alpha or Beta that FNM or whatever people where doing had a LOT of variety. Then the Pro Scene got big and people where bringing the biggest pro tournament winning decks to FNM where Little Jimmy was trying to have fun with the game.

            Not a nock on the pro scene per se but it DOES affect those down the line.

          • benn grimm

            Nah, its a result of bad codex writing.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            yes, agree, the points imbalances and lack of army construction limits are to blame.

            GW could fix the game easily. Go back to 6th Ed army construction and 5th Ed scoring rules. Job done.

        • benn grimm

          Nah its all g-dub’s fault, as usual, those gosh darn scumbags…;)

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean it kind of is their delusional belief that fun players don’t care about winning which caused all this, haha.

    • benn grimm

      Yeah I bet all the guys who lost to these lists really enjoyed it…

      • PrimoFederalist

        Which explains why LVO is such an epic failure, right? Since, according to your logic, you can’t bring a fluffy list and have fun against the power lists.

        It is self-evident the LVO is a popular and growing event. If I were able to attend, I would, and I would bring a fluffy, Thunderwolves-free, Space Wolves army which would probably lose most games, but I would still have fun because I know that’s what I’m getting myself into.

        I can’t understand why people must throw bricks at the tournament scene. Very petulant.

        • benn grimm

          Wow, talk about wide of the mark. You should really stop assuming so much from so little. As I’ve said elsewhere in this comment section; i love a good tourney, I think the BAO and LVO are great, both for attendees and the community as a whole. Can’t stand the Eldar codex though and it is very little fun to play with or against (imo) in a tourney or anywhere else.

          • ZeeLobby

            Any army that can Spam dicr luck removal guns is never fun to play against.

          • PrimoFederalist

            I apologize for mischaracterizing your comment.

          • Archon Malan’tai

            And yet everyone has things they feel like that about. Imp Knight lists, Forever summoning Daemons, Space marines for me. So true, good point, just everyone has their own hated army.

          • benn grimm

            I don’t mind Imp Knights so much nowadays, though I can see why people find ’em boring to play against. I always think of it like a big game hunt; ‘cept instead of murdering endangered lions which have cute names, i’m murdering big steel badass’s from mars.

      • Archon Malan’tai

        I agree in general.. But that is competative play for you. Bring as much of the best as you can rather than some of everything. But that is expected and everyone else is doing it soo sort of evens out in the end.
        Unless Eldar win then OMGWTF END THE WORLD! 😉

        • benn grimm

          Comp play can be fun, and its cool that everybody bring the best list they can, for me its the book that’s the issue, and tbf its not the only one, i guess it just stands out from the crowd slightly more than any of the others.

    • happy_inquisitor

      A big tournament should be the one place where it is socially acceptable to bring the most broken cheese you can think of and see what it can do.
      It is only a problem if anyone thinks that has any place at your FLGS or club.

      • PrimoFederalist

        Agree, that’s why I don’t understand everyone’s complaining. If someone pulled out 70 Warp Spiders at the local GW or FLGS I wouldn’t play that army. If they do it at a tournament, I wouldn’t be surprised and any small victories would be that much more meaningful.

        Besides, you can turn most cheese into narrative: 70 Warp Spiders? Must have stumbled onto a lost shrine…

      • Archon Malan’tai

        And it is… Unless Eldar does it. If Space Marines would have won, this a post like this would not exist.

  • Archon Malan’tai

    Waaa space marines did not win this one! BROKEN op op op BROKEN op op op! Only Space marines are alowed to win and not be called Broken/op, you know the rules, chant it with me!
    Just odd that when Space marines win tourneys, noo one is up in arms.

    • JP

      Space Marines don’t have heavy weapon armed jetbikes that cross the entire table in one turn, infantry that can run away when you try to shoot them, and jump infantry that deep strike without scattering armed with haywire grenades that can hit zooming fliers.

      • Will Frank

        I’ve said for a while that Assault Marines, Gargolyes, and Stormboyz should be able to make a similar attack.

        • JP

          Imagine Stormboyz being able to kamikaze into fliers with loads of stikkbombs strapped to them. That’s how I always pictured it. WAAAGH!! KABOOM!!

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        I still don’t understand why they are 3+ saves when ever other Eldar jetbike is worse. Fix that and a good part of their amazingness goes away. Still awesome don’t get me wrong.

      • Archon Malan’tai

        Windrunners move 4′ now? Wow what rule gives that..
        TO be honest.. DUH.. Space marines do not have the same units as Eldar? Shocking. Guess what. Eldar do not have the weapons of Space Marines either..
        Eldar don’t have 24″+6″ movement range, 10″ blast, S10 ap2, ignores cover shots that just remove whole sections from an army. They don’t have assassains to drop in to shot down all physkers and their effects. They don’t have anything like centurians, or terminators, or thunder fire cannons(Dcannons are nice but 24″ range), landing without scatter, pretty close to what drop pods do. Then 10 sternguard get out, combat squad and put 5 melta or 10 plasma shots into 2 differant targets. They don’t have Tigarius who pretty much picks what powers he wants, because certain Invisability is crap right? How about SM air with if FLAT OUT vestly better than anything but Crimson death formation. Ohh hay Crimson death, meet ignores cover AA fire. On and on, SMs and their battle brothers just have unending answers to everything.

        It’s why they crush in ITC and this is about the first major thing they have won since their book came out. Who winds the rest?…. Space marines..

        • JP

          And yet Marines get their assplates kicked by Eldar EVERY TIME.

    • ZeeLobby

      LoL. You clearly take one archon and drop him into your Eldar don’t you?

  • LordKrungharr

    See, if people would bring Terminators and Land Raiders and a Knight Acheron those guys would’ve crumbled….that’s my hypothesis anyway.

    • Neil Burns

      >Terminators
      Warp Spiders are AP2 on a roll of a 6, and wound on I. 45 of them seem like they make Terminators Irrelevant.

      >Land Raider
      The Warp Hunter fires 1d3+1 D small blasts, and the Vauls Wrath battery fires 2. I don’t think it’d get into Assault Range very easily.

      >Knight Acheron
      Is it’s Inferno Cannon AP3? If so it’d just wreck it. But, that 2nd list, with 24 Swooping Hawks seems like It’d be able to take it, 24 Haywire Grenades seems fantastic. That is, if they got there.

      • X078

        Torrrent Hellstorm and other templates weapons and also barrage would make a quite a dent on that army. Proper Tau would would probably win also.

      • Archon Malan’tai

        And then a devistator drievs up and blasts the spiders from say 12″ away, which they can not bounce out of range, pick up squad. Or many many many other answers space marines have. Drop a pod of Sternguard right by them, disembark into 1″, and fire 20 ap3 bolter shots into them. Hit with 14, wound with 9.3, pretty much squad wiping them and taking the objective.
        Many many other ways to just pull them off the board.

        • Neil Burns

          Warp Spiders also can leave LOS, and can ignore terrain on a Flicker Jump. If you’re drop podding a squad of Sternguard to kill 5 spiders, that’s fine, I’ve got 40 more. You also forget that AP3 bolts are Gets Hot, and that many Warp Spiders is just hyper mobile.

  • benn grimm

    Well how boring. My solution; just ban the pointy ears, tbf anyone still playing Eldar at this point deserves it.

    • Bradley Macduff

      If you did that tau would just rise up to take there place. Or thunder dome in the post wulfen update. Not saying I’m complaining that dark Angels of all things become the unbsurd squad lord knows they need a day in the sunshine but the eldar I agree are a very imbalanced army that is 0 fun to be across the table from.

      I actively tried to get someone from my store who plays eldar to not bring a netlist and have fun with his list design one time for me instead of spamming jet bikes. He brought jetseer star because he knew I didn’t own a culexis assassin >.>.

      The eldar need a serious reigning in and gw as a whole needs to stop writing their Xenos books so wily nilly ignoring the possible game breaking ramifications of their actions

      • X078

        If Tau would be allowed to fairly compete. The Eldar would hopefully need to adapt to the meta and you would see chaineffects that might be beneficial to other armies too.

      • Neil Burns

        GW needs to stop writing their Xeno books so willy nilly? Orks, and Dark Eldar would like a word with you.

      • benn grimm

        Tau don’t bother me so much, as they at least have weaknesses which can be exploited, but I know what you mean.

        That guy sounds like a barrel of laughs, but in a way you can’t blame people for playing the army they like in the way they like to play it, ‘specially not in a comp environment. If the game were better designed it wouldn’t be such an issue.

    • Will Frank

      Even many Eldar players think there are issues. I got into Eldar in years ago for Wraithguard and Wraithlords. I love how they play, I love how they look, and I love their fluff. But I didn’t think they needed to be changed from Distort to Destroyer.

      Aspect Warriors needed help; and they got it. But,Warp Spiders’ Flickerjump while fluffy (it’s even featured in Dawn of War), may have been too much for the table top. It’s great if you’re only taking one or two units, but an army of Warp Spiders? *sigh*

      As to Scatterbikes? I honestly think they wrote the rule to fit the sprue. They found the most economical layout in which to include the heavy weapon options, and found it cheapest to make one bike sprue that included them – so they gave the option to every bike to justify the sprue.

      I have nearly 20,000 points of Eldar. I’m not about to give up playing them, because I love their look and feel and I’ve spent years making a great collection. But it does feel like, sometimes, people make it out that no matter how underpowered my list might be, if I win, it’s not because I’m a good player, but because I’m playing Eldar.

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        Mine sit on the shelf because of just that reason.

    • Archon Malan’tai

      And you should hate Space Marines (You know, how they have wone pretty much all of ITC) for the same reasons.

      • benn grimm

        I love killing marines, I don’t get quite the same joy from killing the pointy ears, though i’m sure with time, it’ll grow.)

  • Honestly this is why I have no interest in “competitive 40k”. The game’s balance is totally vaporized at this point. I for one am hoping to see the game AOS’d and have the points cleaned out and let the community do the job of pointing the units.

    They are much better at it than Games Workshop is.

    • ZeeLobby

      Which never really lasts. So basically its just better to move on to another game at this point.

      • Sadly there are no other games on the market (for me) that give me what 40k does (barring the gross uneven points matchups)

        Gates of Antares is close but the models look like total crap to me.

        • ZeeLobby

          I was honestly in the same boat. And the loss of fantasy hit me hard too. I loved that world. But my group went to warmahordes, and we’ve had a blast. The old models are duds, and some of the factions aesthetics are hideous to me, but the novels are great (though limited), and the newer sculpts actually look quite good. It provided me with that nice mix of futuristic, magic and fantasy.

          The best part, its actually built around balance AND is FAQed often throughout the year. Every game I’ve played has been close, and when a scenario win isn’t an option, there’s always some crazy assassination run I can try to pull off. Sure it only works 10% of the time, but its a blast when it does. It’s been a long time since I’ve had one of those everyone stands around the table and cheers moments in 40K and I feel like with warmahordes we get that every game.

          Price wise they’re more expensive, but 33% discount is the norm from online resellers.

          Not saying this is the game for you, but I used to think GW or nothing, and can honestly say the switch has been refreshing and great. I’ll still play some 500pt maelstroms from time to time, but whenever I want a close quick game that’s mentally challenging, I pick up something else.

          • Cool. I played warmachine when it came out for a couple of years (Cryx). Not my thing. Mainly in that it was always about killing the caster and popping off combos. Just not what I am looking for in a game either.

          • ZeeLobby

            I wouldn’t have liked it either if it wasn’t for the scenario play. We’re even running a campaign now and its going great, the difference being the smarter players on both sides are gaining ground while the newer lazy players are losing it, unlike being the dude who brought Eldar.

            40K has just gotten way too cheasy if you want to actually compete. And I’m a fan of not having to limit tools to make things work. It just gets old fast.

          • Yeah no argument with the eldar note. You can be a horrible player and still do well with eldar.

  • Shawn

    Gee, I never would have thought that Edlar would ever win first and second place with DE allies. Gee, I guess GW didn’t write their codices correctly.

  • TweetleBeetle

    But this is the first time since the Codex came out that Eldar has taken the top spots at a big event. So the OP and anyone who agrees with him can stop acting like it “doesn’t surprise anyone.” This literally hasn’t happened yet, and probably won’t happen again.

    • Yahtzeevil

      If you’re going to be reasonable, I’m afraid I’m going to have to remove you from the Eldar Hate Train. Good day.

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah. I mean besides the fact that 8 of the top 10 lists were Eldar. You’re totally right. Every player can have a bad luck game, and skill does matter, but the Eldar codex turns bad players into good players and good players into pros.

  • SacTownBrian

    Doom of Mymeara wins. No real surprises in the winner. I’d like to see the top 10 lists. I’d also like to see what the top players would take if they were limited to a single CAD because that inquisitor in the winning list is kinda silly but also required to prevent several formations from first strikes.

    • Will Frank

      To be fair, the only model in either of those lists actually from Doom of Mymeara is the Skatach Wraithknight. The Pale Court appears to simply be to get the Vaul Batteries into a Bound force, without the Guardian tax. Because that Pale Court gave up any formation bonuses it could have gotten.

  • X078

    In my view had they stopped nerfing things left and right and also allowed more forgeworld you would probably see more contenders for top spot.

  • GooeySnail

    Only a f …..a…..g. whow gets his self esteem from warhammer would field these army lists

  • irvinil

    Unfortunately, these lists cannot be played by eldar minatures aesthetic’s lovers: they are mainly composed of ugly, flat, undersized 80’s or 90’s miniatures thtt do not deserves the actual eldar look. SHAME on WARP SPIDERS and SWOOPING HAWKS!!

  • Charles Covar

    I notice the lists are CAD heavy, how restrictive is the LVO list building?

  • Kelshin

    I’m surprised that people can rant with a straight face that they are “not shocked at all” that Eldar won top spot this year. As far as I know this is one of the only major events in the last couple of years that they have won at? Hell. Go through the ITC results for last year on Frontline. Winners: Space Marines…Space Marines…Space Marines. Which lets be honest, is really Codex :Pick-and-Choose-Imperial+Centurions/Battle Co. I assure those lists are no more fun to play against.

    Yeah, they’re spammy, but so is just about every other list you see at a tournament like that. Really I think that if any faction wins besides CSM or Orks at this point people are going to just scream cheese. Its the nature of the internet, and the state of the game and community.

    I will say that very, very few people will ever admit they have been outplayed in this game. It’s always “Cheesey OP Army.” There is no POSSIBLE way there is a better player out there, or that the person might have made some mistakes. It certainly seems true of the most vocal.

  • nurglitch

    Instead of complaining, why not brainstorm ways to beat these armies?

    • JP

      Reaver Titan, 8 Turbo Lasers, Space Marine Scouts to hold objectives, Techmarines to buff cover for the scouts and keep restoring Hull Points on the Reaver.
      PEW PEW PEW. DONE.

  • georgelabour

    Someone correct me if I am wrong here but doesn’t the LVO have its own set of house rules restricting options, and even rewriting certain rules to cater to its player base?

    Or is it all rules as written and thus a suitable litmus test for determining how munchkiny certain people can get when they no longer play to spend time with friends?

    • X078

      It is heavily housed-ruled.

      • georgelabour

        Ah so neuterhammer all the way then. That’s definitely no good as far as ‘evidence’ goes.

        Then again the players of angryhammer aren’t required to let facts get in the way.

        • JP

          And yet abominations like those lists still somehow exist. Their neutering clearly didn’t take. Or perhaps it’s favoritism.

          • georgelabour

            I dunno. I think my knights could take them. Dependant on scenario and opponent skill of course.

            Obviously anyone good enough to win one of the biggest tournies in the world is more likely to know how to bust my walkers better than timmy the net-lister.

          • JP

            What kind of load out do your Knights have?

          • georgelabour

            at 1850? Generally an exalted court five knights. 1 warden, 1 paladin, 2 errants, 1 gallant. That’s four knights with BS/WS5, and 1 more with a better save plus BS/WS 6.

            Depending on my mood I’ll either throw in a relic like sanctuary with my spare points, or add a carapace weapon to the paladin. Against the elder I think I’d go for the carpace weapon to give me a barrages used to work over the artillery pieces.

            Against a multiple wraith knight list or a melta drop pod list I need to really pay attention to my initial movements so I don’t get surrounded. And of course every 6 on the D chart is one fewer knight to use.

            Incidentally I hate Tau Retaliation cadres.

            But as Warp hunters won’t exactly be one shotting the knights there’s the chance (again dependant on scenarios, opponent skills, and my own derpishness) that I won’t be slaughtered.

            Of course if we’re NOT playing neuterhammer then those eldar lists would likely include multiple wraithknights. In which case….war convocation, or an all infantry IG army just ot piss off my opponent.