40K: Chaos Knight Rules Spotted

wd 116 knights cover

Come see the first set of official GW Studio rules for Chaos Renegade Knights.

images via Captain Citadel via allies of convenience (facebook)

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These rules are included with the upcoming boardgame:

60010699006_ImperialKnightRenegadeENG01

Imperial Knights: Renegade $195

Giant war machines duel in the 41st millennium!

Dominating the battlefield with their size and firepower, Imperial Knights are towering bipedal weapons platforms that hold no quarter in eliminating their targets – but like anything else, they are vulnerable to the dark clutches of Chaos. The Freeblade Knight once known as the Living Litany is an unfortunate example; nobody knows what truly happened to this once-valiant hero, only that it has renamed itself Litany of Destruction, and has been leaving a brutal trail of devastation in its wake. The Imperial Knight Ever-Stalwart has made planetfall on Tellerax Prime with one goal in mind – hunt down his fallen brother and restore the honour of the knightly houses, or die trying!

The screaming whirr of chainblades and the shriek of missile launchers herald the meeting of two gigantic engines of war on the battlefields of Tellerax Prime. When such powerful machines face off, only one will walk away – put yourself at the controls of an Imperial or Renegade Knight and march to glory with this boxed game! Inside, you’ll find two Imperial Knight miniatures (one Warden and one Paladin), with a transfer sheet to detail them as Imperial and Renegade Knights, a Basilica Administratum scenery piece for your Knights to engage in fierce combat over, and an eight-page booklet containing rules and missions for the game, and rules for deploying the Renegade Knight in games of Warhammer 40,000!

So preferred enemy all around for both sets of knights.  Nice!

~Who’s adding some of these to your CSM forces on the tabletop?

  • Red_Five_Standing_By

    It wouldn’t be Chaos if they didn’t make a formation bad. Ugh.

    Sure it is fluffy but the bonuses that the Loyalist Knights get are so much better than the bonus that the Chaos Knights get!

    • Christie Bryden

      aye, it dosnt do anything that makes it worth it, lets see for the cost of the formation, you and he get the same rule….. that means Zero benefit.

      • An_Enemy

        You know, I’m usually the one criticising, but this thinking confuses me.

        If you’re running three Knights then you get this benefit. If you don’t then you don’t. You’re not paying anything extra.

        Is it great? Nope. Is it currently the only detachment available for Chaos? Yep.

        Of course, yea, it will suck if you’re playing a Loyalist Knight player using a formation for its own buffs. Handing them PE just for showing up is…a bit crap.

        • You can still run the FW one as a LoW in a chaos CAD

          • Chris. K Cook

            And get Marks/Possession/ect

          • I still hope they eventually do some corrupted cerastus Knights

          • Chris. K Cook

            Lets hope.

          • Andrew Thomas

            If you’re using ITC rulings.

          • Chris. K Cook

            I’m confused? what ITC got to do with anything?

          • Andrew Thomas

            RAW, Forgeworld Chaos Knights do not get Marks or “Daemon of…” rules, but have their own, distinct Mark-like rules called “Daemon Knight of…” ITC made a ruling say that in their tourneys, these count as the Daemon of rule. Important to remember, because not everyone plays ITC games.

          • Chris. K Cook

            I still don’t understand how this means they don’t get upgrades that these guys don’t?

            I’m sure FW will FAQ it that way anyway.

          • James Mcclennan

            I hope they hurry up and mark the rules as official and not experimental

          • From direct interactions with FW, experimental just means they aren’t planning on putting them in a book any time soon, they’re final rules and they have no plans to update or change them

      • Dan Wilson

        As cergorach said, the bonus is that you could take SIX avenger Gatling cannons or SIX rapid battle cannons. You’re likely going to be benefitting from preferred enemy that much more than the loyalists will.

        • Chris. K Cook

          Shush logic has no place here on the kvetching moaning and a paranoid ranting of awful Chaos players.

          • Zack Seiders

            I play khorne daemonkin, Lord of skulls is to expensive point wise, bloodthirster with big axe is cheaper with higher weaponskill and more attacks but the big giant axe is initiative 1. Yet the renegade knight is almost exactly like the imperial knight in every way. While a big axe bloodthirster needs help taking down an imperial knight (lasher fiend as a hunting partner) the renegade knight/imperial knight can win most battles on his own. Was going to get 2 bloodthirsters for khorne daemonkin anyways (one to summon, other is big axe thirster)…. The renegade knight also has the added benefit of having good guns and being able to keep up with the bikers, hounds, spawn, maulers and even bloodthirster if i so choose. Only bad thing is that if the knight… dies I do not get a bloodtithe point.

          • Shawn

            Well look at it this way Zack: If your renegade knight blows up with that Apoc sized blast, and you wipe out some of your own forces, wont you get a blood tithe point for that?

          • Zack Seiders

            Think the things has to die via the khorne daemonkin for any benefit. Though that does mean said target is….. having a wonderful time in the warp (sarcasm on the wonderful part) and is off the hair of the rest of my army. A maulerfiend with lasher tendrils is the PERFECT knight hunting partner for the renegade knight “providing the mauler doesn’t die on the way in” Good luck killing something with one attack hitting on 4’s (unless they are aiming for maulerfiend) As for renegades part, all i need is to hit and get a 6 (or get lucky on the d3’s if it is anything but one)

          • jonathon

            you don’t have to kill stuff with the KDK rule – any unit from the KDK faction that dies also gives a blood tithe point, so if your knight goes supercritical and takes out a unit of bloodletters in the explosion, that’s a bloodtithe point.

          • Zack Seiders

            I know that as well…. why would I have my blood letters be that close to a knight where their are better more efficient ways to kill off the letters (instant they become to small a force to use, i have them charge somewhere I know they will either die or weaken enemy enough so they be SCREWED against the hounds.

          • Zack Seiders

            True, but why would I do that when deepstriking the bloodletters “en mass” and raptors (suicide squad that melts tanks) is a better suicidial ways to get blood tithe points (I get angry when the spawn is that close to deal some damage yet the persons guns FAIL to kill the damn thing)

          • Zack Seiders

            Could but why would i blow up my own guys when their are better ways to kill off the low model screening units (bloodletters, spawn, cultist when objective is mid field “they can take mid field objective and die for all I care”)

        • Djbz

          Plus Preferred enemy against Knights is only going to help 3 of the ranged weapons and melee attacks (Avenger Gatling cannon, Storm-spear Rocket Pod and Meltagun)
          And Superheavy vs Superheavy in melee combat tends to result in mutual destruction anyway (at least in my experience)

      • Chris. K Cook

        How is this bad?

        You actually have MORE freedom of weapon configuration than Loyalists. Which makes sense as a renegade has told the Ad Mech to stick it after all.

    • Cergorach

      The bonus of this formation is that you can field THREE Renegade Knights with dual cannons… I suspect that this thing can outshoot a far more expensive formation of five Imperial Knight with some kind of ‘nice’ benefit…

      • Local Ork

        If You play this against single knight added to another army, this is good actually.

        If You fight against whole army of knights… well, You’re Chaos, what exactly did You expect?

        • Chris. K Cook

          Wait did you not read what he said you can run a better weapon configuration than loyalists. So they get preferred enemy but you get it back at them so what’s the fuss?

    • ytook

      I think you’re missing the point somewhat, the big bonus is the ability to include a single knight easily in any chaos force, this detachment is the equivalent of the loyalist oathsworn detachment which gives you 1 to 3 knights with no bonus whatsoever. It’s flexible and “drag and drop” that’s its bonus. Given that renegade knights can take two of any ranged weapon being able to easily drop one into any army is a big plus.

    • georgelabour

      It’s basically the same as an oathsworn detachment for imperials and or everyone else..

      In fact this formation gets a bonus of some sort whereas the oathsworn gets nothing and instead merely lets you take 1-3 imperial knights.

    • Agent OfBolas

      The way of Chaos in WH40k – a boy to beat by glorious Space Marines.

      on my CSM forces the dust coverage is so huge I can’t even remember what models I own … And I’m 100% serious here 🙂

      • Malisteen

        This is equivalent to the loyalist oathsworn detachment, which grants no bonuses, and is frankly exactly as good, only better, because the renegade knight is more versatile in its options than the various loyalists versions.

        This is literally a case where we got something exactly as good as loyalists, arguably even better. The only thing we didn’t get is full knight armies, and if you’re fielding a full knight army, then you don’t care about ally rules and can just use the loyalist version anyway.

    • Malisteen

      The formation is bad, but it IS a formation, so you DO get to run knights without a CAD in battleforged lists. And the Knight itself is fantastic, with all weapon options, including doubling up on ranged weapons which loyalists didn’t have before, and the chaos knight neither pays more points nor loses any special rules or effectiveness compared to it’s imperial counterpart as an individual model.

      This is, honestly, a pretty fantastic release for us.

    • Andrew Thomas

      BFD. Renegade Knights, particularly Renegade Crusaders, are individually strictly better for 1 reason: they can dual-wield their arm guns, so you can give them a more well-defined roll.

    • First post best post

  • Shawn

    Very Nice. Makes me think that all loyalist marines should have preferred enemy Chaos Marines, since they’re not like well loved that is.

    • Noveltyboy

      If your serious, seriously? Like Imperial’s don’t have enough. If you’re not, then it should be hatred as some Chapters never encounter Chaos but have certain foes like Orks they fight regularly. Preferred enemy represents that but I think Loyal and The Amazing CSM’s should all have hatred.

      • Westdraygon

        No he isn’t serious. He’s taking the piss.

        • An_Enemy

          He’s serious…

        • Shawn

          Correct Westdraygon. Check out my post above.

      • Shawn

        No not serious, and thanks for not flying off the handle. It’s hard to judge nuance and tone (i.e. sarcasm) on here and I sometimes forget that. Imperials do have a lot of tools, no doubt about that. The comment stems more from the fact that when I play against Chaos Marines they always, amazingly enough wind up with preferred enemy Space Marines. Annoying as all get out it is. I’m like gee, are there no other warlord traits in the Chaos Space Marine codex? I know there is, but that’s how I feel anyway. Funny thing is, the only time I ever face CSM is at a tournament and always plague marines. Now that my Iron Hands can get 5+ FNP (Thank you Angels of Death!), they wont be laughing anymore!

        • Tati

          they only get hatred, not preferred enemy, and its an upgrade called Vets of the Long war, some units get it free, others have to purchase it// as for warlord traits, hatred is if you roll a 6, 3 is master of deception, 4 I think is cc has soul blaze, 2 I think is fear and 1 I don’t remember, Chaos doesn’t get any real good warlord traits

          • Shawn

            Yeah, it’s just amazing that they get it every time I play them. In one tournament a CSM player was running a CAD and rerolled his warlord trait and got hatred, so I can’t win in that regard. However, I did get that web exclusive centurion model from FW. In 40k, it’s a 35pt relic armor that grants the warlord and the unit he’s with stubborn and preferred enemy -Chaos Space Marines. That helps mitigate the issue somewhat.

    • Local Ork

      Race exclusive rules (such as preferred enemy X) are always bad idea.

      • Shawn

        Yeah, maybe under special circumstances or local narrative play. I wasn’t being serious. Just check out my reply to Novelty Boy.

  • Painjunky

    My god. Chaos formations have become so bad that you actually buff the enemy. Face+palm. Epic fail GW.

    • Randy Randalman

      It really doesn’t do anything. And no one will play the 3-knight formation.

      The Renegade Knight, on it’s own, is better than an Imperial Knight. Being able to take 2 Avenger Gatling Cannons is the most powerful option available to any Knight – period. Chaos can, Loyalists can’t. Cast a little Prescience on him…

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        The principal remains the same. The loyalists get cool benefits for fielding 3 or 5 knights. Chaos makes it so that knight on knight combat is deadlier.

        FacePalm

    • Malisteen

      This is the equivalent of the loyalist oathsworn formation that does literally nothing, and is there just to run a knight or two attached to another army. Which is what chaos wanted out of this, and what we got.

      This is fantastic for us.

  • AdeptusAstartes

    Have I seen that correctly … 125pts for a Knight!

    I might get my Death Guard out of their dusty, old box.

    • Andrew Webb

      325 points…..

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      No, it is 325 base.

      But you can mix and match all of the weapon options without having to flip between the mountain of unit entries present in the normal Knight book.

      • AdeptusAstartes

        Hahaha …. nuts!

        When will the Death Guard be seen again?!? Just can’t catch a break!

  • Christie Bryden

    I wonder if I should start a online boycot of CSM stuff , if we all agree not to buy CSM stuff untill they actualy give us atleast usuable CSM stuff, and a codex about the legions we might just do it.

    • Rattlernxt

      I’ve been doing that for two years. GW hasn’t seen fit to publish any CSM material that might bring me back to the fold.

      • Christie Bryden

        yes but we need to spread the word.

      • Cergorach

        And that’s the reason why GW isn’t doing anything new with Chaos, people stopped buying Chaos products… 😉

        • Shiwan8

          Lookkng at other businesses this would be the first time when the owners thought that their product stopped selling because it was good and did not need to be better to keep selling.

          • Cergorach

            If it doesn’t sell well, you don’t make more that doesn’t sell well. You put it in the closet and it either stays there until the end of time or you do something with it a decade or two later…

            Squats
            Chaos Dwarves
            Sisters of Battle
            Dark Eldar (resurrected!)
            Harlequins (resurrected!)
            Genestealer cult (resurrected!)
            Bretonnia
            Tomb Kings
            Space Hulk (resurrected!)
            Warhammer Fantasy Battle
            All the Specialist Games lines (some will be resurrected)

          • Admiral Raptor

            It’s not really our job to buy bad products though is it? The CSM range is riddled with terrible rules and outdated models.

            I think GW can no longer afford to keep up as many factions as they have for 40k and so are only updating the ones that will sell the best. We saw that happen to Fantasy for years before it’s death. I don’t think they”ll go as far with 40k as they did with Fantasy but I can see some ranges getting thrown together under various alliances.

          • Shiwan8

            OR if it’s a thing in a game you figure out why it does not sell well and you fix it.

    • grumzimus

      Yeah… Don’t we need to have stuff worth buying before we boycott? I’ve got 100 bucks waiting online for them to release anything worthwhile. Don’t see a need to boycott. Just give us Legion Tactics already & all will be forgiven.

      • Shiwan8

        Forgiven? Sure. Forgotten? I think not.

    • Daniil Osudin

      yeah i also stopped buying csm stuff about 2 years ago

    • Dave Scammell

      It worked so well for Bretonnians after all.

    • Zack Seiders

      Think the renegade knight works with all chaos armies. Khorne daemonkin and chaos daemons could also benefit from this MARVELOUS monstrosity. (pair this bad boy up with a laser tendril maulerfiend or 2 maulerfiends, with trendrils and magma cutters and this would be the biggest distraction unit yet.

    • Drpx

      Then GW will just stop making new stuff for CSMs, it’s how their logic runs.

  • Nathaniel Wright

    Eh, guess this gives someone a template for running a baronial court for chaos? maybe?

  • Shiwan8

    Sooo, apparently I missed the part where it said that this has something to do with chaos.

    • Dr_Keenbean

      That part of the actual book likely hasn’t been bothered to be scanned yet. The current White Dwarf specifically says that it is an allied detachment for Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons in 40k.

      • Shiwan8

        When IKs first came out the WD told us how everyone would get them…but
        then just imperials got them. Unless it’s a written rule it does not
        exist..

  • SundaySilence

    And Knights keep getting better while Gorka/Morkanaughts still suck 🙁

    • Shiwan8

      They all seem to be the same.

  • Ben_S

    I wish I still had a couple of Epic Knights. Seems like I could easily play this game in a much smaller space.

  • Dave Scammell

    Everyone’s once again too distracted finding things to complain about to see anything good from this. What’s interesting to me is the fact that there are options for the renegade that the Codex Knights don’t get, in particular being able to take two Battle Cannons/Thermal Cannons/Gatling Cannon, or a Battle Cannon and Thermal combo.
    Sure there could’ve been more fluffy rules and a better formation (but it’s more or less identical to the Codex one apart from the ‘preferred enemy’ rule which I like, especially if you consider that your enemy’s unlikely to field three knights as well. The codex detachment doesn’t get ANY special rules at all)
    This is fine and has a lot more options to it than the normal knight. No it’s not a new Chaos codex, but it’s a whole new weapon for you to use.

    • Shiwan8

      Where does it say that this is available for chaos?

      • Dave Scammell

        Probably on one of the pages that wasn’t hastily snapped on a 90s digital camera. It’s pretty obviously for chaos what with the logos and all. It’ll probably be its own faction that allies as Battle Brothers with Chaos factions.

        • Shiwan8

          When IKs first came out the WD told us how everyone would get them…but then just imperials got them. Unless it’s a written rule it does not exist.

          • Dave Scammell

            Well technically anyone CAN have them, just at different levels of alliance. There’s plenty of Ork conversions out there, and I’ve seen some Necron and Tau ones too. They’re their own faction after all, and they ally as though they’re an imperial army.
            This leaked photo doesn’t have the complete text, but you can see how it explains allying the same as Chaos Marines.
            http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6db5607f7e2cbdbcc626526eba1219662002aa56b037c6ec12c1ea8326f9ad82.jpg

          • Shiwan8

            At that moment we were still in 6th edition.

            Ok. Cool. This is still pretty moot update since chaos knights are the same thing but do not let the better imperial knights have preferred enemy.

          • Drpx

            GW knows “everyone” has an imperial army.

      • Renegade Knights use the same allies rules as chaos in the uncropped version of the second photo

        • Shiwan8

          Ok. Apparently it was too much to ask not to leave the important rules out.

          What is the ally matrix for chaos anyway? I know what it is for CSM and Chaos Daemons but chaos in general is new.

  • eldarconvert .

    by the time chaos get any thing good the narrative plan to blow up the universe will be in full swing so you wont even get time to enjoy being like every one else!

  • Dan Wilson

    Forge world need to start selling the chaos knight upgrade parts separately… Say for £35-40. They’d sell a lot more of those upgrade packs than they’re probably selling £115 chaos knights, especially with the renegade deal coming out.

    I like the renegade rules… Twin rapid battle cannons? Twin gatlings? The flexibility of the chaos knight is at least beyond that of the loyalists.

    • Statham

      They need to make better upgrade kits for the Knights, in that case. The current Chaos Knight is terrible, just gribbly bits and standard chaos!stylings.

  • Shiwan8

    “All yall” who think it’s awesome to have these because they are flexible…have you seen the cost of these things? If the weapon swaps were free or even half the cost then sure, this would be ok. Now it’s, like any of the recent non imperial releases, useless.

    • Someone

      yeah – their about the same as the imperials – except they can double load their weapons for an apropriate cost.

      Not suprising to see you spamming the thread trying to be negative about this, your negative about everything. Really the more you post – the more useless you show your opinion to be.

      • Shiwan8

        Nice, you filled the “I have an opinion based only on my personal preferense and you are stupid if you do not agree with it”-style “argument”.

        Please do tell us all how this is balanced compared to loyalists and how it solves one or more problems CSM is suffering at the moment. I mean, if your opinion is even remotely close to the truth you should be able to show how this balances things out in and gives the faction is supposed to support better tools to work with.

        • Someone

          Rather – I pointed out that someone who shows no valid opinion but merely reuses the same tired buzz words and ignores the points that others raise to refute then has no validity – and is an idiot.

          Still it’s generally amusing to see you jump feet first into your own mouth on here in a daily basis – so thanks for defining the human curve of a bell graph through occupying an end.

          • Zack Seiders

            What I know is that the renegade knight is EXACTLY like the imperial knight in every way save for its loyalties. For someone who plays khorne daemonkin, this would make a good alternative to the big axe bloodthirster (thirster has better ws and is cheaper “at price of i1 but the renegade knight has better guns, more expensive and swings at full initiative.)

          • Shiwan8

            You had no point. Your arguments content was basically that an imperial knight is an imperial knight. What I find interesting is that you claim that this thing here is something new when it is not. 😀

            Yes, I understand that you have a need to feel superior to others and the only way you can manage that is by trying to shame them in to silence after you have expressed your subjective opinion based on nothing and they have disagreed. It’s ok. I can not relate to your situation but it’s ok.

    • Tirelion

      They really are the same cost as an imperial, even if you ran three of them base with no upgrades, 975pts for three….that’s actually pretty good. These still leave me room for a csm bike star, or a small csm force with sorcerers and fireraptors or heldrakes. It’s not a total csm “fix” per se, but it is definitely a shot in the arm. Only thing I would have liked more is for them to be actually chaos marked….guess I really will still need to get the FW one.

      • Stealthbadger

        But remember the imperial knights are rubbish. Just like everyone on here says all the time. 🙂

        • Tirelion

          eeehhhhh wat? lol

      • Shiwan8

        Ok. How does this counter any of the regular builds with massed warp spiders (who do not care about knights because ->), wraithknights (who just pummel the knights with “one hand”, wolfstars (that just run through one per turn on average) or screamer stars (that just do not care it it’s not sD and/or a 6 is not rolled).

        It’s not an ansver to any of the problems CSM suffers from. I’m not complaining about it existing, it’s actually pretty ok. It’s just worse than comparable things and for no reason at all on top of the fact that it’s resources not dedicated to things that actually would make the game better for people who like fair play (read balance).

        • Someone

          Now that’s not true – you were claiming that it failed to measure up to the imperial versions – which it clearly does. Nice backflip, I score it 8.5 (a little to obvious)

          • Shiwan8

            Errrr….how exactly does it measure up to the imperial versions? They have their own formation bonuses and this gives them more in addition to that.

        • Stealthbadger

          Come on dude be reasonable. It’s not meant to be a magic pill. It helps out the chaos players by giving them knight models. That’s pretty bloody good. Is the CSM codex still so sucky that it literally doesn’t let light escape from a 5 metre radius? Yes. However now a CSM army can bring a little ,ore punch to the table compared to last week. It may be a band aid on a bullet round but it’s not as bad as you are making out.

          You know the codex isn’t going to get a magic fix anytime soon. Nor is any release going to fix the broken as heck builds, nothing will. Thats why they are broken. If your opponent brings 50 warp spiders he’s a bunglec*nt. Find new friends.

          The game does allow people to break it and that’s an issue but the twunt that breaks it is also the problem. Nobody can fix them.

          • Shiwan8

            Chaos players already had knight models. Better than this actually. At least they were not just weak version of imperials.

            CSM codex is a proverbial black hole. Not that it matters. It’s one of the old codices which are all in pretty much the same situation. If you look at just the codex everything pre necron is there with them and looking at supplements only SW drops from the group.

            None of us knows if the codex is getting an update or not.

            Players are a problem only when they cheat in the game or act like “that guy”. A player that does what ever he/she can within the rules to win is not a problem when it results to stupid crap like super firends or 2++ rerolls. If the design allows that it’s ok for a player to do it but at that point it’s a bad design.

          • Zack Seiders

            Depends on if you want to pay forgeworld price or basic price for the knight. Coming from someone who is in an area where their is no forgeworld, I rather pay for the cheaper one and stick him with khorne daemonkin.

          • Shiwan8

            Using the chaos knight rules did never require a chaos knight model. The only thing that changed is that GW screwed the anti FW crowd and actually you by giving you rules that are not tied to FW but are significantly worse than both FW rules and the ones that GW gave to loyalists.

          • Stealthbadger

            By weaker do you mean absolutely the same in points cost and stats? Or am I missing something?

            As for the last point that makes you far more tolerant than me of people knowing they’re playing lists that aren’t fun for anyone. If you don’t think someone that abuses issues like that is being “that guy” then fair enough. Yes, design is a problem, for me personally I would also lack of restraint is an issue to in that scenario. Fortunately this nightmare of 50 warp spiders, super friends, taudar etc. Is something I’ve never seen outside a tournament posted about on here so it’s a bit like the boogeyman for me. I suspect others may be the same if I’m not the last one in a group on non WAAC’ers.

          • Shiwan8

            Weaker as in same for the models basic rules but has to pay extra for things that make it equal to the formation bonuses loyalists get for free.

            Abusing issues is being “that guy”, no doubt about that. However being “that guy” is fair because designers make it so.

            You are likely in one of the very few and far between groups of non WAACers. Not likely the last. Those “nightmares” are the present standard though.

        • Tirelion

          First off, as someone who actually plays a screamer star, knights can wreck your day very quickly with stomps. The same can apply to wolf stars, though it tends to be more binary, the lucky one wins. Warp Spiders shouldn’t even be part of your argument. We all know they are OP broken unless you play smart missiles. If you use spiders (or other Eldar wraithknight BS) as an argument, then you would have to say that EVERY OTHER ARMY IN 40K IS TRASH. Eldar are a problem for everyone, not just CSM, so stop using them to try and make a point, it’s like saying grenades aren’t effective because nuclear weapons exist. Other than that, we should be able to agree that knights play rather well. So having the ability to just attach 1-3 knights to a CSM list (that are just as good as imperials), should be seen as a boon for CSM. Not sure why you think that these knights are somehow worse than imperial ones. As for balance…well..there won’t ever be csm rules that create balance in 40k. Until they fix the unbalaced lists (eldar, tau) it wont be achieved. Fixing CSM will not change that, even if they do CSM right.

          • Shiwan8

            Thank you Captain Obvious! Now we all know that fixing a portion of an issue is not the same as fixing the whole issue.

            There’s some corrections though: Eldar are a valid argument, just as Tau or DA/SM are. These are the 3 more or less correctly made codices as they are internally balanced and closely balanced with eachother. Everything else is worse by such a huge margin that it needs fixing. To say that one should stop using relatively well done codices as arguments is to say that one should stop using strong arguments because it’s inconvenient for those who have weaker ones. That right there is a path none of us should ever take.

            Knights (these new ones) are absolutely exactly nothing to CSM. CSM had already knights. The difference is that the old ones did not make killing them easier for the imperials like the new ones do and thanks to formation bonuses loyalists get the new chaos knights are weaker than the knights of “old”.

  • JP

    Now I’m VERY happy I didn’t glue the arms onto my knight titans. And fortunately, their paint schemes are such that I can easily play them as loyalist or renegade.
    Double the guns, double the fun!

  • Kaptain Badrukk

    Melta Knight says no to armoured vehicles!

  • Alexander Slizewski

    If I were to make a fan made chaos codex and put it up as a free PDF, would anyone be interested in downloading and using it? I’m part of a gaming group that is very passionate about Chaos and know a lot about 40k; suffice to say we are all fed up with GW’s failure to make any decent chaos rules. If we don’t get a chaos codex soon, we were all planning to use some rules we wrote while ago while play testing additional rules.

    • Shiwan8

      I’d like to see those.

  • Crablezworth

    This game is what happened to 40k since 5th in a microcosm. Yes, we can praise the value, but it’s a game with 2 models… this isn’t skirmish gaming, this is gong show gi joe sillyness. I want 40k back, apoc can go home, it’s always dunk.

  • GiftoftheMagi

    On Imperial Knights: Renegades.

    When the Imperial Knight kit was released, I praised it because FINALLY we got some of the old Titans back that didn’t require a loan and 4-8 years for Forge World to deliver. The kit itself was excellent, well made, easy to assemble and paint, and looked awesome. Yes it was a scary thing to face, but you also paid dearly in points for the scare so there was a sense of balance. My only complaint was that there was no Chaos option until recently.

    And now we have this board game, which almost gives you a Knight FOR FREE. Yes, a mano-a-mano board game between two Knights is a bit simple and derpy (like a 40K version of Rockum-Sockum robots), but the sheer VALUE of the kit is amaz-balls. If you have ANY Imperial forces at all or want to start a Knights army, this kit is key. And with the variety of the Chaos rules, it could be a much-needed boost to Chaos armies.

    Now I get why some are worried about the de-evolution of the traditional 40K force system. Between Unbound rules, Formations, Datasheet and special army rules the game has become a confusing mix of types and styles and much less like armies and forces with a logic sense of being. Making a standard Battle Forged list to face off against a trio of these monsters feels like suicide. Then again, not all battles are traditional or have balanced targets. I don’t think the Knights hurt the game. I think they add a wild new element to the fun. I want one of these. I want to fight one of these. And honestly this deal is amazing. I hope GW keeps up this trend.

  • Mr.Gold

    notice you can have TWO of each of the main guns! (due to replacing both combat weapons…) that is two avenger gattling cannons firing per turn – super expensive but probably worth it to shred infantry, how about two thermal cannons – wreck theose vehicles from across the board…

    • Shiwan8

      Good idea. There’s just one thing. That infantry is invisible and or behind rerollable 2++.

  • Tati

    this kind of a step up from what they are trying to push with those crappy formation of cultists and terminators with the lord in the box set, hell, now since wouldn’t have to have knight with chaos be 12 inches away due to the rules of allies, kind of a good direction