40K RUMORS: Roboute Guilliman Tidbits

roboute-ultramarines-space-marine

The first round of Primarch rules tidbits are doing the rounds:

Bols-Rumors-avatar

rumors via Facebook’s Pellicane Richard Ryan 2-8-2017

Guilliman Leaked Rules

  • WS7 BS6 S6 T6 W6 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv2+
  • Army wide change to doctrines.
  • Reroll to wound.
  • Reroll to hit.
  • All friendly Ultramarines can choose to pass or fail leadership’s.
  • Leadership can not be modified.
  • Makes Sternguard troops.

Special Rules

  • Eternal Warrior
  • Fear, Fearless
  • Extremely Bulky
  • Feel No Pain
  • Same regeneration as Belisarius Cawl

These rules sound a lot like Marneus Calgar on steroids – which is about right. We will have to wait and see.

~Discus

  • Rajak

    GW 1: Lets introduce an army that can affect leadership, Triumvirate of Ynnead

    GW 2: Wait? Will that affect Space Marines?

    GW 1: Oh crap…Lets give them Guilliman and make their leadership unable to be modified.

    GW2: Good thinking!

    • Defenestratus

      I always love it when GW releases rules that affect leadership. The fact that none of that stuff affects three quarters of the armies out there is lost on them I guess.

      • DeCold

        But CSM will still have more FEAR SR, right?

        • Randy Randalman

          Ld is currently worthless in 40k. That will hopefully change in 8th.

          • jeff white

            Rule number one in eight ed. No named characters in casual games and tourneys unless by prior agreement

          • SonoftheMountain

            yay Third Edition!! Can I have Rhino Rush back too?

          • vlad78

            NO.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. How does no special characters = rhino rush? Oh the knee-jerking backlashes.

          • Koszka

            Play Ironwolves!!!!!

          • jeff white

            I came back into the hobby once. Long time ago. First game was against playtester for gw. Guy had like six csm rhinos filled with csm which ripped my guardians apart in two turns. Done. I never tried to win another game again. Yeah. No you can’t have your rhino rush cuz free transports will go and full out move assault and sweeping advance and all that too…

          • JimOnMars

            “…playtester for gw…”

            No such thing.

          • jeff white

            Maybe. I dunno. He sed his name was in the thank yous for the rule book if I recall correctly but I never really cared enough to check…

          • Drpx

            Would you have been happier if he said he was an atheist?

          • jeff white

            Point being dude showed zero charity. Rhino rushed my dudes off the table.

          • Valeli

            I miss when that was a thing. Special characters becoming normalized was one of the first things that started irritating me in GW’s rules/system evolution.

            (Although @SonoftheMountain:disqus , I’m with you on Rhino rush. It wasn’t all better just because it was earlier. I can’t think of a single edition that had no blemish, but that doesn’t mean future one’s can’t be improved).

          • Stealthbadger

            Can I ask specifically what it is you dislike about named characters? I can’t think of any I’d really be bothered about seeing. especially in a world of stormsurges, wraithknights, and imperial knights.

          • jeff white

            Rule number two…

          • DeCold

            At least it sometimes does matter on Perils or when doing Psychic Shriek. But yeah you right.

          • nurglitch

            I’d like to see Fearless as rolling 3D6 and keeping the lowest two, with And They Shall Know No Fear being reduced to a bonus to evade Sweeping Advances (say, roll 2D6 and pick the highest for Sweeping Advance).

          • Stormxlr

            oh, so you want to add more random die rolls? No, thanks.

          • Me

            I’d rather have more die rolls than having something completely ignore a core mechanic.

          • nurglitch

            It’s not really random, now is it? It’s risk assessment. You know that, in general, the average of 3D6 is going to be 10.5, or 10/11. A Fearless unit should be passing those regular morale and pinning tests. They shoudn’t be completely exempt from them, however, and rolling 3D6 and choosing 2 dovetails nicely with the difficult terrain/move through cover mechanic that’s used for resolving the risk of moving through difficult terrain.

          • marxlives

            Or remove it entirely.

          • Aaron L Palosaari

            removal of ATSKNF will fix this…

      • William Neill

        Completely unrelated, but your profile pic is awesome! (Labs are the best)

        I kinda like the leadership rule. It’s situation but super fluffy.

        • Nwttp

          Labs are cool, but wolf dogs are the best.

      • Adrik

        It doesn’t affect Space marine armies. All other armies are affected. The “oh space marines need to have their Ld effected!” Is the most disingenuous argument. IG, Necrons, Tau, and both flavors of eldar are effected by Leadrship.

        The whine that “fearless armies should be effected by fear” is the most idiotic argument. It’s essentially the “my army is effected by this so everyone’s army should share the burden!”.

        • Me

          So… Can the armies with this rule pay fewer points when fighting Space Marines?

          My problem comes not in the fact that SMs don’t get affected by it. You want to have a huge proportion of the available armies ignore a rule, no problem. Just don’t then build and price (via core rules) entire armies around that rule. I have the same problem with Ignores Cover.

          • Adrik

            Space marines are space marines. Your argument is disingenuous. You want to get away of ATSKNF because it hurts your playstyle. Get over it. Your argument is no different than if someone came in and say “tau why do they have strength 5 shooting. That is unfair they wound majority of he armies on Threes!!!”

            They don’t ignore the rules. They ignore an SR that doesn’t mean that SR comes into play. Defensive grenades ignore the benefits of charge. So all armies with defensive grenades should be needed right? I mean my Black Templar lose their rage SR on units with Defensive grenades. So defensive grenades should go. How about Ap2 and ap3 everyone I play against with my marines being so much ap3 and ap2 I generally have to use cover saves. My army should be made cheaper when playing against high ap3 armies becaus e I pay a premium for an armor save that I don’t get, right?

            Oh wait you just want to nerf marines because your store is dominated by marine players. Popularity nerfs: is when people make the argument that something needs to be toned down just because people play it despite the fact that it is or isn’t balanced. What you are wanting is a popularity nerf.

        • Rajak

          It does not affect all SM this is true. This is not an issue with fear effects. Fear is a separate rule. But on one hand to create an army to effect leaderships then with the other to create something to negate it is ridiculous. Yes Marines are fearless, auto rally, and can’t be pinned. But they can still break. If you can get them to break and flee before rallying that is a valid tactic to use. How ever with Ld 10 it is difficult to pull of. So when an army comes along that can pull it off only to see an auto negation by include is kind of a slap in the face and feels like a protection of SM. GW loves SM they always get the nice new toys.

          • Adrik

            no it’s not a slap in the face. The biggest issue is everyone wants the survivability of space marines yet pay the incredible low price of their army. Tau have the ability to up their BS skill, get rid of cover saves, and the ability to take away special close combat USRs with their photon grenades.

            The whining that not everyone is effected by leadership equally is just that. Whining.

          • Seismic Ghost

            Damn man you sort of a biiiitch.

        • Aaron L Palosaari

          So then explain where the CSM decided to get afeard of things then. What the primordial truth was too much and scared them, really.. and you want to say its disingenuous… Maybe if it was limited like in 30k it would make sense, but as it sits Space Marines with ATSKNF get a huge boon and DO NOT PAY FOR IT where as all other races have to pay tax on their good stuff.tau have St 5 shooting is pretty weak excuse when their leadership and CC ability is terrible.

          • Adrik

            Why would a chaos space marine fear? Why is a space marine corrupted to chaos? Because he wishes for power. When a person wants to gain power they also fear the loss of power. Basic psychology. What do you think something is going to say “hey I want to gain all this power for myself and yeah I don’t mind the idea of sacrificing myself and all I worked for!”.

            The answer is no, the very psychology of chaos is one breed in fear. I mean how can you even argue that Chaos is fearless when they bow their heads to Abaddon so he will not kill them. He rules through extreme threats of violence. If CSMs were fearless like the Loyalists, Abaddon would either be dead or forced to parley.

            Space marines pay for their specialties. This “they don’t pay for t” is a huge cry fest and nothing more.

          • Adrik

            As a Tau player you must never have played against Tau or in this edition. You know 7th ed right? The edition were CC largely died?

            You saying Tau cc is bad so they deserve str 5 weapons is hilarious. This is an army where you can melt a marine squad a turn just from fire warriors but I guess you wouldn’t know that because a lot of 40k players do not understand the concept of focus fire and instead spread their damage out.

            Also for 30k you are talking about one of the worst rules sets in the game that is about to vanish the minute GW takes over the rules. Or have you not noticed that anything done by GW restores ATSKNF?

            Oh and what about Necrons? You do know what Reanimation Protocols are right ? You do know what that does and how a formation makes it absolutely gross? Oh no you don’t because you are literally blowing out hot air because you are a terrible player.

    • MechBattler

      Oh, please. They crossed that line ages ago when all the Necrons got Ld10 by default.
      “Your warriors have to take a leadership test.”
      “Zombots don’t care. Passed.”
      “Uh, morale…”
      “Zombots still don’t care. Passed.”
      “Pinning?”
      “DUDE.”
      “Dang it!”

      • Djbz

        Necrons at least are susceptible to Ld reducing effects and sweeping advance (well most of them are)

        • petrow84

          Damn right. It rocked in 4th ed, where it actually counted, how many models were in close combat. Then, 5th ed came, and suddenly, you were throwing checks for Ld 4-5.

          • Drpx

            They were hardly hurting in 5th considering this is when Mindshackle scarabs meant laughing as that 250 pt HQ beat themself to death.

          • petrow84

            Only in the last 6 months. Until then, close combat was the end-game for necrons.

      • DaveTycho

        Necrons always had LD 10 since they first came out in 2nd ed.

        • MechBattler

          That’s why I said “ages ago”.

    • Emprah

      As if Eldar needed any more cheese.

    • Stealthbadger

      Doesn’t it only affect Ultramarines though? An of course no one plays ultramarines in reality do they because they are so hated for reasons only the embittered really understand. Something to do with a Ward?

  • LeroyJenkinss

    I’d do him.

    • Stealthbadger

      I knew it was you Ward!

  • Victor Hartmann

    We’ll see if these rumors pan out but Guilliman’s rules are actually more restrained than I expected.

    • Slaanesh Devotee

      I’m just glad his stats are lesser than that of Daemon Primarch Magnus the Red.

      • Xodis

        They just wanted to justify making him cheap enough (in points) that everyone fields him.

        • BT

          I am betting 250 and a LoW.

          Because GW…

          • NNextremNN

            It’s the flamesword of the emperor himself! I’d guess it Str D and can throw D blast fireballs

          • Daniel Hall

            After Magnus is 650 points? Yeah sounds about right…..

          • ILikeToColourRed

            his rumoured stats are the same as the 30k version
            so probably closer to 400

  • Angry Panda

    He’s not worth it, especially if he has those stats. I was expecting 10’s across the board, and the signature “Matt Ward” special rule: any ultrasmurf that fields this unit automatically wins the game. As a power gamer, I am deeply rustled in the jimmies.

    • Munn

      They left out the part where he’s actually negative 500 points.

      • Angry Panda

        Then I’ll take him; gives me more room for grav and stern guard drop pods. It’s going to be a lot of fun smashing the hell out of all those five year olds.

    • jeff white

      He is a super hero and IMO should appear in exactly one game a year with buddies for kicks or narrative and be forbidden from tourneys and casual play otherwise

      • Angry Panda

        Screw that; he should be the center of every list in tourneys. All with summoning daemons and fields hordes of massed crap infantry to cap all the objectives.

        Competitive play, am I right?

        • BT

          That is him naked. Wait till we see his wargear. I am expecting he can ride a Dreadknight chassis with a sword that will make Drago green with envy.

        • jeff white

          Don’t forget to load the dice and bribe the judge.

      • Admiral Raptor

        As soon as he comes out I’m never leaving him off of my Ultramarines force. Primarchs aren’t that big of a deal. Even in 30k where they’re the main characters, they’re not that hard to kill.

    • ILikeToColourRed

      his rumoured stats are the same as the 30k version

  • Randy Randalman

    That’s actually a pretty fair rules set. It’s not too dissimilar to his 30k rules, just adjusted for the 40k field.

  • MechBattler

    I expect something comparable to his 30K stats and rules, and these seem about in line with those.

    Here’s a thought –
    Stick him in a squad of Centurions and watch as your opponent tears his hair out trying to kill them. Guilliman with a squad of T5, W2, 2+ save meat shields would be MEAN.

    • Majority Toughness means he would be easier to wound then (like that matters in this age of grav and melta…).

      • Not if they all Look Out Sir. Once they’re gone…yeah.

        Also, him stuck with assault Centurions. THAT would be nasty!

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah… I would honestly never fear this unit. Assault centurions are the biggest joke.

          • MechBattler

            NO. Shooty Centurions. Grav or Las. They shoot the crap outta stuff until they find something to charge and then Guilliman does the rest.

          • ZeeLobby

            I know. I was responding to Kepora.

          • Admiral Raptor

            Stick them in a pod with Kantor and they become a lot scarier. Not OP scary, but far more respectable.

          • ZeeLobby

            Eh. With good play it’s always been as simple as backup and shoot. I mean there are definitely factions it would tear up, but those factions already get the crap beat out of them. I feel no need to insult them further, lol.

  • Wampasaurus

    Sternguard as Troops i.e. Special Issue Ammo, +1 Attack and +1 Ld for an extra 40 points? Yes please and thanks. Jink and Cover Save Armies beware….

    • ZeeLobby

      And thus the grav spam continues…

      • petrow84

        Did it even die?

        • ZeeLobby

          Of course not. But by the time 8th hits I wouldn’t be shocked if the bolter is simply removed from the game, haha.

          • Derek Lee

            It happened with the volkite…

  • Xodis

    I would be less upset with this whole Leadership debacle if Space Marines were not already practically immune to anything negative from Leadership failures. Like seriously GW, we get it, just remove Leadership already since its practically useless.

    • william timonen

      Orks disagrees, our main cause of casualities is failed leadership tests!

      • Xodis

        Orks would be that exception lol. Seriously though maybe we would see more Orks on the table if they were not the only ones that had to worry about Leadership problems…..maybe not though.

        • william timonen

          If the whole army was fearless…

          Orks might have had something going for it.

          • Xodis

            Yeah just remove Leadership completely since Orks and possibly 1 other army are the only ones subjected to its failures. Seriously Leadership needs to be either gutted from the game or fixed so its actually against more than 1% of armies.

          • william timonen

            Im besinning to think that orks maybe left competive play for some other reason than that grav was useless against them…

  • SilentPony

    That’s it?! I was expecting Chapter Master + Honor Guard as Troops, with a Gulliman honor guard made of Dante, Logan, Calgar, 6 Calidus, and 85 thunder hammer/storm shield Terminators from 86 different chapters.

    Yeah.

    That’s worth it.

    • and 12 guys with double grav cannons (one on each arm). You can’t forget the grav-guards.

    • petrow84

      I’m curious to see the pimp ride he’ll get, if Calgar already got a customized LR. My bet is on a custom Mastodon, with a Thunderhawk landing pad on it, plus a Rhino-catapult for deep striking Gladius transports into the battle.

      • Loki Nahat

        Sounds plausible for the new GW,!

        Little Timmy is going to love it!

        Not so much of the rest of us cantankerous born out of wedlock misanthropes

      • Jared van Kell

        You forgot to add the hull mounted win button.

      • SilentPony

        Well seeings how Arkhan Land had a personal hover Spartan, with twice the capacity and a quad mounted twin linked Vulkite Culverin array, I guess anything it possible.

      • Mr_Pickles

        Roubute will copy Dorn and have a personal Thunderhawk (a way to introduce a plastic Thunderhawk model)

    • Antoine Henry

      Heretic, Logan will not ally with such Ultramarines weak brothers

  • BaronSnakPak

    I wonder what the change to doctrines will be? Maybe something like Calgar giving an additional use type of deal.

    Sternguard as troops is cool, bolters wounding on 2+ is always a fun time, same goes for heavy flamers.

    • Rush Darling

      Ah good, I’m not the only person wondering about the “changes to doctrines”. Also very curious.

  • Hendrik Booraem VI

    Why have Eternal Warrior and Toughness 6? With Toughness 6 the only thing that’s instant death is D, and EW doesn’t save against that, right? Is it to prevent things like Force weapons from being Instant Death weapons?

    • Parthis

      There several things in the game that can cause Instant Death; not just S >= (T*2)

      • euansmith

        Apoplexy from rules arguments is one of those deadly things. 😉

        • Rush Darling

          Biomancy > Enfeeble power reduces targets toughness. Whilst its faaaar from reliable, I’ve occasionally used a well placed librarian and a somehow-still-alive vindicator to do some serious ID damage. Reckon I’ve pulled it off about 20% of the times I’ve tried what with failure to cast psychic powers and wildly scattering blast templates, but still.

        • jeff white

          A ruler through the eyeball is faster

          • euansmith

            :O

  • euansmith

    “… Extremely Bulky”

    “I wouldn’t go so far as to call the Battle Brother fat. He’s got a weight problem. What’s the Astarte gonna do, he’s Maccragean.”

    • petrow84

      “It’s all about the genes. Genes, stolen from Holy Terra, at the time of inception. I blame the gene-stealers.” – and thus, the next holy crusade against a random hive fleet has been ideologized.

    • NovaeVox

      “Adept, what’s that you’re eating?”

      “It’s a calzone, lord.”

      “Pass it down here.”

    • Mr_Pickles

      So what would happen if Tyranids got a hold of primarch genes… Swarmlord gets an upgrade?

    • Nyyppä

      Double Maccragge & Cheese?

    • Simon Chatterley

      All I can’t picture now is a Space Marine giving a foot massage…

  • KassIas

    If he’s able to regenerate D3 wounds per turn like Cawl whilst having a 2+ armour save and what will be a 3 or 4+ invunerable save with feel no pain on top of that he’s going to be damn hard to put down.

    • Derek Lee

      This might make up the years of me running my Captains and Chapter masters away from Chaos lords with daemon weapons.

      • KassIas

        Yeah, especially the 4th edition ones that would cut through everything like butter. This time it will be the lords running away.

        • Derek Lee

          Or even better, a real match for Abaddon. Of course Magnus could always D-beam RG to death.

          • KassIas

            Depending on his invunerable save and his weapon RG could be more than a match and one of the few who could beat him 1v1. Magnus has 2 S D powers he could hit RG with but due to the big FAQ RG can take FnPs against the wounds as they are not causing instant death. Whilst Magnus is the best Psyker around RG beats him in terms of durability, support rules and healing and will most likely be better in melee than Magnus.

          • Dylan Pettersson

            Wait the FAQ says that you can take FnP against D if it doesn’t cause ID? But it literally states that you can’t take FnP against D in the rulebook

          • KassIas

            My bad, it does. The FAQ clarifies that you can take FnP against wounds that don’t allow saves. Forgot that it says in the FnP rule that you can’t take them against D weapons.

  • nurglitch

    Don’t Primarchs usually have Smash, as well?

  • Nyyppä

    The important thing here is that it has to be game breaking.

  • Admiral Raptor

    That seems about where he is in 30k. His wargear will determine how much of a monster he is.

    I’m planning on building a coalition force of Ultramarine successors to run with him and my existing UMs. The beginnings of a re-formed Ultramarines legion in my head cannon.

  • Deathwing

    But what does His SWORD do????

    • MechBattler

      I imagine it’s mostly identical to the Burning Blade relic already in the SM codex, since we’re 95% certain that’s what it is. And the Burning Blade (probably) represents the Emperor’s sword, so it makes sense Guilliman would have it.
      What doesn’t quite make sense is how the Emperor’s sword got passed around chapters like a hot potato.

  • Baldrick

    Not a big Ultramarine player…..actually do not play them at all. Can not help but see continued codex creep here….even with 8th ed arriving soon. NONE THE LESS, Robert Girlyman makes for interesting reading…….makes sternguard troops….gotta love this…….

  • Emprah

    Eldar gets Ws9, Primarch ws7? I call shenanigans!