40K: Boy Golly Competitive 40K Looks Fun

 

Competitive 40K is totally a great environment for fun and fruitful games.

This past weekend serous players from around the country had the opportunity to take place in Warzone: Atlanta, a major 40k tournament in, I presume, Atlanta. In preparation for the event the organizers had put out the full lists submitted for the event. Combing through the lists, and a break down of them, one thought was clear in my mind “Boy these lists seem super fun to play against”. Let take a look at why I think this.

Warzone Atlanta Army List Archive

The List Break Down

So I have to say that I really hate variety. When I go to a tournament I don’t want to have to think of a bunch of different rules. So I was really happy to see that out of 104 lists at the event 37 of them were playing Chaos of some sort (it all blends together). Another 14 were playing Elder and a full 11 took Astra Militarum lists. With about half the lists being from these three armies there wasn’t a ton of representation from other armies, with only t’wo T’au player and a lone Necron. Good! Those armies are boring and bad, and I certainly would rather face the same thing over and over again than them.

 

Forgeworld

Now while I hate variety in army types I love variety in models, so I was super happy when I saw how many armies were taking Forgeworld units. Overall about half the armies took Forgeworld units, which is great! I love seeing new and interesting things. Eldar proportionally (of any of the armies that had real representation) took the fewest, with only 4 out of 14 players using Forgeworld. Just goes to show how solid their book is I guess. Chaos meanwhile drew deep from the well with with 26 of their 37 players using Forgeworld. And hey, knowing these players I bet that almost none of them took Malefic Lords as support. Nope, I am sure it all some really crazy and fun stuff.

Primarchs

One of my favorite things in 40K these day is Primarchs. These are some of the coolest models in the game and are just amazing to see on the table top. The only thing more fun than fighting them: using them. And hey, it seems like the guys playing at Warzone: Atlanta agreed with me, since they took Primarchs in spades. Over the various lists Magnus was taken 12 times, Mortarion 13 times and old Bobby G a mere 9 times. That’s 36 Primarchs! And here I though there were only 18. Its fun to note that 7 out of the 9 Space Marine lists took Bobby G, while some Chaos lists took both Primarchs. Boy those both sound like some fun lists to fight! I wonder how they did??

The Winner

So since the event has come and gone we also get a nice look at who won. Now first place was an Astra Militarum list, and I have to say boooooo! This list is soooo boring and plain. Infantry Squads? Las/Plas Vets? Death Riders? Only ONE pysker? What the heck is going on here? And don’t be fooled either: this list is a hit list designed to take out the coolest models in the game – Primarchs! The whole idea of the list is clearly to pop the Relic of Cadia Lost and hit either Morty or Magnus with 4 Manticore shots that re-roll misses and failed wounds. Yes, this should kill a Primarch on turn one, but gosh is that boring. Other than that its just guys with guns and some horses, doesn’t seem very fun. What a boring normal list. I don’t know why people look at this and say there is hope for the game.

Runner Up

Looking at second place I see a list MUCH more to my liking. We’ve got Morty AND got Magnus! We’ve got 3 daemon princes, Malfic Lords, crazy Giant Chaos Spawn. This list has the benefit of being super original and easy to remember. You’ve got a bunch of smiting and then a handful of “close combat beats” to finish things off with. On top of all that there are almost no useless troops to clog stuff up – just a few Brimstone Horrors. And this is totally awesome! Who wants troops or like “armies” in the game. I came here to see team ups between the handful of most powerful beings in the galaxy, not balance. Looking at this list I see something that looks like just a ton of fun to fight against.

3rd Place

We wanted to put a picture of a Malefic Lord here, but as they don’t make a model for it, this is what you get. 

The third place list also just really makes my soul sing with joy. It’s starts off strong with a bunch of Cultists, an under used unit, and then adds in some super sneaky Alpha Legion Khone Berzerkers for fun. Now, it’s always great to see old friends, so I was real happy to see that after adding some additional CSM units the list brought in a full 5 Malefic Lords, some more Brimstone Horrors and Mortarion for a little flavor. Again, man this is just a list full of stuff I love to fight. Infiltrating Berzerkers that can get turn one charges. Loads of smite. An awesome Primarch. This is everything I love about 40K.

A Great Bunch of Lists

I was really happy with the list I saw from the event. Variety and originality are boring and overrated. Seeing similar lists over and over again is were all the fun is at. After all, netdecking was great for other games like Magic: The Gathering, so I’m super glad to see it really finding itself at home in 40K. I’m also really glad to see Primarchs totally dominating the meta like they are. Its great to see events were only lists that take Primarchs and lists designed to beat Primarchs win. (A sort-of normal list won, but its a list really designed to fight Primarch lists, and it was played by a very good player.)

So yes, overall looking at these lists I see a bunch of match-ups that look like a ton of fun to play. I mean, playing combinations of most like the same 10-20 units over and over again is fun. Fighting Primarchs all the time is even more fun! Can’t you see just how glad I am that this seems to be the direction that 40K is moving in more and move!? It’s clear that competitive 40K is in a really healthy place, and is giving us some fun and complex events out there.  I see no problems at all.

Let us know just how much fun you think competitive 40K is, and how much you love all these lists, down in the comments! 

 

  • Dovydas Bulanavicius

    Wonder why the Chaos cheeze didn’t include Pox Walker tide. I’d have done that and end up with more points than I began with.

    There is no FAQ saying you can’t go over the starting strength of those, so 2 detachments of Renegades for +18 CP, and one DG detachment, to rule them all, with ~200 Pox Walkers by the end to cover all table

    • Munn

      Because in practice it’s not actually that good. People have tried it out and it ends up fizzling.

      • Dovydas Bulanavicius

        wonder how those people failed, because it’s literally an unkillable tide of bodies and they hit on 3+ (or 2+ with Prescience) and wound on 2+ or 3+ anything lower than T9

        That’s hundreds of S7 97% chance to hit and 84% chance to wound attacks and dozens of mortal wounds on top, neither Primarchs nor Leeman Russes can survive that and certainly not Guardsmen

        I know exactly how it would have turned out for this guy that won with IG list, with no Mortarion to hoard a quarter of the points, you’d have even more bodies than he had on the table, move in to Melee by turn 3, turn all of his remaining footsoldiers to even more poxwalkers and table him by turn 4-5 max

        It’s only a bad strategy if you don’t use a noxious blightbringer to maximize your advance range

        • Fergie0044

          How do you get them up to S7?

          • Dovydas Bulanavicius

            Diabolic Strength, they have the “Heretic Astartes” keyword, so you can cast it on them.

            Sure it’s not 100% chance, but even if you fail, you will have Putrescent VItality keeping you at S5 which is very respectable and with +2 to wound (from strategem and blades of putrification) yiu will still be wounding on 2+

          • Dovydas Bulanavicius

            Diabolic Strength

          • Fergie0044

            That only effects a single model, not a unit. Meant for buffing DPs.
            Although a similar result could be got from various +1 to wound strats and buffs.

          • Dovydas Bulanavicius

            right, my bad, those +wound strats and spells still work though, so it doesn’t really change much, you still wound even T9 on 3+

      • Dovydas Bulanavicius

        The only reason not to use them – it’s a PAAAIN to move so much figurines, I have ~80 and it still makes for a long game, with 200+ it would be unbearable

        • euansmith

          Don’t you use movement trays? With no templates, it seems to be the way to go for horde armies.

          • Dovydas Bulanavicius

            we usually use a lot of terrain, so I can’t, it would be very comfortable otherwise, especially since I have everything neat and magnetized

          • Garr Davies

            In the modern age (of sigmar) we have forbidden the old ways of movement trays. The Inquisition is watching you very closely now citizen.

          • euansmith

            I was asking for a friend… FOR A FRIEND!

          • Severius_Tolluck

            A loyal Imperial Citizen would not cavort with heretical scum. The name of your friend, their family, and their friends, and have yourself turned into local Arbites for summary judgement, and purge from society.

          • euansmith

            When I say “friend”, I actually meant to say… HAIL THE FOUR ARMED GOD!

          • grim_dork

            Yessssss. . .

          • LordKrungharr

            In Sigmar it’s easy to use movement trays, at least for deployment and the first turn or so, since there’s way less terrain than in 40k. It really helps get past turn 2, sometimes even past turn 3!

          • Jabberwokk

            Well that and practice. If you want to do what no one else can you got to be willing to do what no one else will.

        • Zingbaby

          Exactly this. Same reason we rarely see huge hoard Tyranid armies at tournaments – with mandatory time restrictions it’s just tough even pulling that many models out of your bag, let alone deploying – moving, etc etc etc…

          • euansmith

            Maybe base with magnetized edges could be a way to go, so that a squad would naturally cling together, but the formation could be reshaped and pulled apart to fit around terrain and get in to combat.

    • Marco Marantz

      Ive seen it in action and its really slow. You can slow up the horde quite easily and deny them from every reaching objectives.

      • Dovydas Bulanavicius

        Remember they’re just a side show, they are a 60 point investment, that returns on every turn and amounts to 50% or more extra to your total points, meaning you’re fighting with 3k points vs 2k points.

        You have basically 1500 of Astra Militarum yourself, minus the orders (in the form of Renegades and Heretics) that are very capable force in their own right.

        Pox walkers are just an added bonus, that’s why I’m saying it’s the cheapest current strategy available.

    • I_am_Alpharius

      Not quite sure how you are going to get to +18CP with just 3 detachments, seeing as how you have to fill all the compulsory slots in a detachment to take it and gain the CP benefits.

      • Dovydas Bulanavicius

        there’s two 9+ detachments, you can fill one for under 700 points if you go for the cheapest units, like say mortar teams for heavy slot and so on

    • AkulaK

      Because this tactic only works if you have the first turn. If you don’t have it, your poxwalkers units will be wiped out at first turn or slowed to death.

      • Zingbaby

        How do you figure?

        • AkulaK

          Is it hard for you to kill 20 T4 5+fnp units ? If it is you should change your army list.

          • Zingbaby

            20? …Uhh I think he was talking about fielding a lot more than that.

          • AkulaK

            For 600 points you can have Typhus and 120 pox walkers… The problem is that you can buff to hell only one of those units, which starts at 20 models (you can cast the same spell only once in a turn)… It is exactly like Necron legions, you have to wipe the units one by one, but i think when they arrive, at least half of them will be dead. You can also stick them in close combat with high armour units, as they don’t have any AP weapons. This is a good tactic indeed, if you can throw you spells and stratagems at it, but if you don’t have first turn, you’ll struggle hard.

          • soggie

            Typhus and 120 pox is 895 points. The rest of DG are pretty expensive, so if you are planning to field anything else, 120 poxwalkers are a no go. Even at 2k points I’m only managing to squeeze in at most 60 poxwalkers.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Thats usually what I see.

    • EmperorOfMankind

      I am not familiar with Pox Walkers, you can create more than you started with? If that’s right then you have to pay for them in matched games so it wouldn’t work very well in a tournament.

      • Dovydas Bulanavicius

        you don’t have to pay for them, we know that because it’s explicitly stated that you have to pay for conscripts, so if you had to pay for them – it would be explicitly stated as well, since it’s not – they are free

        • EmperorOfMankind

          It is, page 214.

          • Dovydas Bulanavicius

            that rule diesn’t apply to stratagems, we know that, because the Valhallan strategem to return conscripts gave precedent to this rule clarification.

            So until there is a FAQ, Admech, CSM and DG can use their atratagems to gain troops without allocating points prior to that. thanks GW ☺️

            If 214 page rule was a blanket one and covered any and all means of gaining units, there would never have been a clarification on the Valhallan stratagem

  • Domenico Malavisi

    Is it just me or does this article seem all over the place?

  • Slippy

    Wow that sarcasm was fun for the first two sentences.

    It’s tournament play. It gets the netdecking MtG approach. You knew that before you even looked at the top lists..

    • Zingbaby

      Still sucks though, but that’s been “competitive” 40k since 5th edition.

      • It was like that all the way back in the 90s and 3rd edition when I was a regular tournament player.

      • ZeeLobby

        Man, your salt is overwhelming, lol. Competitive 40K has always existed and been like this past the 2nd edition RPG days.

        • Zingbaby

          I gotta call bullcrap on both you guys, cuz I played a lot of tournaments in the old days and it was NOTHING like the “WAAC” of 5th edition and beyond.

          The tournie scene died here during 4th so I can’t really speak to that, but “WAAC” was absolutely NOT a thing in the earlier tournament scenes.

  • GridlineRacer

    God damn just write a proper article with your thoughts and opinions on the subject matter rather than this lame sarcasm hammer that you hit us with for the whole read.

  • alex luthor

    I made it through the whole article but boy that was annoying to read.

  • snakechisler

    It took the comp players all of 5 seconds to go down the smite power play path.

    It’s easy no troublesome saves to worry about gets the games done quicker no interaction.

    Anyways it’s up to GW to sort it out re-pointing the under costed models will help but smite spam is out of hand and very broken

    • David

      I’d agree with you that there was no interaction unless you could deny the witch etc.

    • eMtoN

      Taking smite to warp charge 8+ would be a step in the right direction.

      • LordKrungharr

        I also feel like characters should be limited to one of any single unit type per detachment, or even per army maybe.

  • Rob brown

    Oh corr blimey, this article is a sarcastic load of tosh.

    I spent the first three paragraphs trying to work out if the writer was making a case for why Primarchs lists were good or not. Here’s a tip if you’re going to write a sarcastic article then you need to be consistent. Saying lots of good reasons for playing those armies… like beautiful models… easier to play etc interspersed with loads sarcastic BS just reads badly.

    This is one of the articles that looks to have been inspired by some range inducing piece of news. It should probably have been saved to draft, slept on and then submitted tomorrow. Rather than looking like something fired out of a death guard cannon.

    • ZeeLobby

      LOL, brutal but true.

  • Rob brown

    I get the feeling that a lot of issues for normal play can be resolved simply by saying forge world and lords of war are with player permission. Doesn’t help tournament but maybe this is why I don’t see all this Malefic lord BS and a Primarch every game.

    I think a few simple house rules would make things much smoother. The main one being. You can only use stratagems of a keyword if the whole army is the same keyword. E.g Ultramarines strategies only if your entire army is ultramarines, space marines only if whole army is space marine, otherwise it’s the universal ones only. Rather than allowing them with only a detachment. They should be the reward for a fluffy army.

    • Zingbaby

      1 broken FW unit (Maelific Lord), tons of broken GW units – yeah lets ban FW!!!

    • LordKrungharr

      Forgeworld is generally fine. Many of the units are points costly, of course some (like the Malefic Lord) are not. The Smite power should either be harder to cast, or just like the other powers and only able to be attempted once per turn.

      • Charles Keeling

        -1 for each successive cast is the most sensible I’ve heard.

    • Charles Keeling

      The issue is detachments. Limit it to one and at max you have 5 HQ and have to take the battalion.

  • Vekhr

    Ahhhh, Goatboy was sarcastic and poor BoLS readers got confuseeed?;( Bad Goatboy;( Bad!
    Nice article, fun to read. Finaly. I think it is your 1st:D

  • Weidekuh

    Option A: Lets forge a great community where the hobbyist, the gamer, the tournament player, … , anyone, is welcome and respected. No one has to like everyone, but respect for different preferences and playstyles makes for a better experiance for everyone. With a fansite this popular, we have the power to encourage it all over the world!

    Option B: Lets create anymosity and hatred against the different groups inside our beloved 40k hobby. living by the mantra: “If you don’t like what I like then you should be eliminated from the hobby.” Lets encourage this kind of thinking through this popular fansite we have!

    Maybe, just maybe those people at a _tournament_ really like the tactical competitive aspect of the game (as good or bad as it is) and it is irrelevant to most of them if their army is judged “diverse” by anyone.

    If you have to blame anyone it’s GW for making those armies possible. A solid ruleset should not break under any extreme listbuilding.

    • Joshua C

      Nice in theory, not so much in practice, Even MTG which has one of the most balanced games rule sets ive ever experienced can be broken in half when a card is not balanced correctly. I believe GW will make things right, nothing to panic about were still only half a year into this edition and its more fun than ive ever had playing this hobby before.

      • David

        Gw need to move to free digital iterative pts value’s. A magic card can’t do that what’s on the card is what it is but GW could gradually adjust pts tI’ll it balances. Problem is they just keep over killing one list acolytes, comics arsenal, void shield generators to the point there unusable and don’t addrest why some lists can’t compete. Start at the bottom and improve it

      • Kami

        that’s why they ban things. but people get up in arms if you suggest banning something like malefic lords

    • David

      Option A is clearly heresy and curruptung xenos talk

  • ILikeToColourRed

    turns out when youre at a tournament – people take the stompiest lists they can….
    who know

    • David

      Not everyone does but if you play at the top end it’s what your against

      • ZeeLobby

        This is important to note. I’d say of the 100 table events i’ve been to, usually only the top 20-30 are that crazy. There are plenty of fun players on the lower tables, stomping around, drowning in beer, who are a blast to play with.

  • Anthony Keen

    For once it would be great if we could get a serious tournament write up. The tone is all over the place.

  • Marco Marantz

    So what your saying is 8th ed is in an unhealthy state (but really no worse than previous editions). Gotcha.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      Its a bit disappointing since they gutted the fun gameplay and tactical complexity in the service of making a cool balanced tournament game. That turns out not to be any good after all.

      • Lebowski1111111111

        how many different time do we need to read you hate 8th edition and still play 7th? i have literally seen words to that effect from you in dozens of threads the last few months.

        You dont like 8th, you think tactically its lame, we get it, move on.

        (and btw i also like 7th more than 8th, i hate what strategms have brought to the game, its like im playing magic the gathering out here now [i play my trap card!], but 7th is gone, and it is not coming back)

        • ZeeLobby

          I mean maybe he doesn’t want to? I think a lot of people were hopeful for 8th. And it kind of failed to deliver on both fronts. Lost a lot of it’s narrative fluff, and a lot of it’s good mechanics. And he’s right, tournament play is still a mess, even with all this “streamlining”.

        • Kami

          Yugioh. strategems are way better then deathstars. 7th ed was one of the worst editions of 40k I have ever played

  • Defenestratus

    This is my favorite article on BOLS. Ever.

  • I don’t understand why its hard to understand that if you’re going to play in tournaments, that you’re not going to face representations of the fluff and have great narrative games. You’re going to crush your opponents’ balls and are going to take the most optimal list. Fluff doesn’t matter in tournaments.

    Complaining about that is pointless. Tournament gamers don’t care if you don’t like that. If you don’t like that, don’t play in tournaments.

    The same is true with the waac guys that want to play super optimal lists in campaigns. They don’t belong there either because fluff matters the most in campaigns, not optimized monster lists.

    • Sure

      This ^.

    • Zingbaby

      You’re absolutely correct – however it matters across the board because GW is now taking cues from the infantile WAAC scene and implementing changes that effect everyone.

      • eMtoN

        Yet all the updates have been positive for everyone…

        • Zingbaby

          Oh man, I hadn’t realized “everyone” came to agree on something, definitely a first for the 40k community.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean they really are though. Even the haters haven’t had much to stand on. GW has made some good changes to fix some broken combos in the competitive meta and… shocking! they’ve been good for the game as a whole as well.

          • Jabberwokk

            It’s almost like Creating a solid ruleset results in a much stabler community…….Heresy most foul indeed.

          • ZeeLobby

            XD. I mean people think I just hate GW, when really I don’t, and still own tons of GW products. I just hate when they make dumb decisions, and applaud them when they make good ones. It’s not my fault they tend to lean one way over the other, but lately, rule-wise, they’ve been doing what the entire community has been asking them to do for years, and it’s only a good thing.

          • Jabberwokk

            I don’t think you hate GW anymore than I do. If anything it shows you care because if you didn’t your response would have been “meh”. Gw has been knocking it out of the park ever since Tom Kirby got

            Excommunicate Traitoris by the high lords of terra. Amazing what good leadership can accomplish when not interfered with a reportedly “F***** Tosser”(Forbes).

            They have re-engaged the community, fixed the rules, Tyranids are a thing after 10 bloody years. Things are looking bright in the grim dark.

          • ZeeLobby

            No doubt. I would totally be back on board and purchasing again if 6th/7th hadn’t burned me out so hard. As it is I’ll wait a bit and see how things go. If I jumped back in now, and their policies changed next year, I think I’d travel to the UK and burn their building down, lol.

          • Jabberwokk

            Pray to the emprah that SoJus doesn’t take any hold or that is entirely possible.

            Outside of that Market forces will keep GW on the straight and narrow.

            Fortunately for me I have so much stuff form 4th that I’m pretty much good. I could use one of those neeto-keen tyranocytes and a squad or 2 of zoans.

          • Zingbaby

            Well – has this actually happened yet though? …a solid ruleset in a much stabler community?

            Clearly it has not – though I’d agree we are headed in a far better direction than we have been for many years.

          • Zingbaby

            And also let me clarify a little – yes the rules guys are kicking out FAQ and I’d agree with ‘most’ people that it’s awesome… however because of WAACtards my local GW for example is banning Forgeworld.

        • ZeeLobby

          But competitive players are BAD, nothing could ever come from them that is good!

      • Jabberwokk

        And my tyranid codex thanks them for their input.

        It also has very good fluff. In fact The rules and the fluff go together and compliment one another.

      • ZeeLobby

        Like what? 40K is still an imbalanced mess, and most of their FAQ changes are for the better. I’m still failing to see where this evil influence is leaching in…

        • Zingbaby

          Yeah again, I’m not specifically talking about the FAQ, which I agree are excellent so far… though I believe the Commissar nerf is so so terribly implemented (they needed to do something though, and they did – fine).

          The same argument that has gone on since the 5th edition ‘try hard WAACers’ really came to shine; it’s not that “fluff bunnies” “don’t want balance”, because I agree fixing broken combos is legit awesome and of course we want balance – it’s that netlist WAACness infects all other sorts of gaming.

          And what makes them evil most of all to me personally, though clearly a personal grudge, is that my local GW is banning Forgeworld on ‘balance’ issues! …1 F’n FW unit is arguably OP, compared to how many from GW?

          • Neal Laxman

            Wheres your local GW? I thought they had been given wrist slappings for that type of behaviour.

    • Charles Keeling

      You can still curb unfun armies to play against, and frankly are unfun to play. We’re back to Tac Marines being awful, most troops being awful unless they are a very specific, annoying niche. The universe is populated with whole armies if brimstone horrors, most efficent guard choice, and not much else troop wise.

      By all means face the worst, just make it so the majority of models people have aren’t an embarrassment. Hard FAQ and changes this first year are important. Make the game we want, the best are always going to be the best, it just get wearisome to face unreasonable to kill LOW or more shots than models you brought.

      • Ah but thats just it. Hard restrictions may be something you want. However, hard restrictions hurt sales and are not things that everyone wants.

  • Gamecock13

    I care less about the units a person brings to play. I care a lot more about the fact that certain armies aren’t represented at all simply because they aren’t competitive.

    This is probably the most honest litmus test GW has to determine where disparities are between armies. If no one is bringing a specific army EVER…why is that?

    Tourny lists are going to be somewhat bland. But the big question for me is: does every army have the opportunity to win in tourny play. The answer currently is an overwhelming “no”.

    • Zingbaby

      Yup – and this has the been the case with “Competitive” 40K for several editions, however 8th was supposed to be the ‘chosen one’ that brought balance to the force; not there yet anyway.

      The ‘tournament mindset’ of the community is also quite broken and entirely unfixable by GW, and that’s not likely to change soon. Generations of kids who were always allowed to ‘win’ so they don’t burst into tears and essentially what “competitive” 40k is now.

      • Kami

        it took like an extra 20 something years for the prophecy to work though 😛

  • Damistar

    The sarcasm is strong in this one…
    However I think what you’re really seeing here is the monotony of the weblister groupthink. Players that go to tournaments want to WIN and the wizards of smart on various 40K websites say these lists can win so the players bring these lists. If Abe wants to really see more variety than the blog writers will need to push alternate lists to change perceptions out there.

    • Zingbaby

      So blame Reece? I agree. 🙂

    • Jabberwokk

      Or God forbid make, test, and refine their own.

  • Garr Davies

    If you go to a tournament that rewards those who win games. Expect to face the same netlists that use the most powerful and efficient units. Lately on the site I see authors writing articles bemoaning competetive 40k whilst simultaneously being part of the very problem they write about.

    The only way to revive variety in tournament lists is to offer incentives for something other than crushing the enemy. The first ever 40k tournie in UK way back in the 90s rewarded paint jobs, unit variety, sportsmanship and humour instead of only giving points for a win.

  • thereturnofsuppuppers

    I don’t quite understand why anyone would try to play 40k hyper competitively, its clear the game is predominately focused on list building and random chance, player in game skill has very little to do with who wins.

    Might as well just sit at home and run the numbers against each other.

  • Ninety

    You’re gonna get a bunch of hate, but I couldn’t agree more. Except for 12+13+9 being 34, not 36.

  • Good god that’s a lot of salt. If I absorb that much salt from the article, I’ll have no room left for the comments and that’s just dangerous.

    • ZeeLobby

      There’s always room for comment salt :D.

      • Neal Laxman

        It’s low sodium!

  • Dioscuri

    I’ve never followed the 40K tournament scene, but some of this seems very familiar from my experiences in X-Wing, specifically the domination of the top tables by a few specific builds (Dengaroo, U-Boats, TLTs, etc.). Listcrafting and powergaming aren’t bad per se, but I think it’s a problem if (i) lists look too samey, (ii) certain armies just aren’t competitive, (iii) most iconic units never see play, and (iv) obscure/expensive sets of models are required to compete. Here’s hoping chapter approved nerfs some of the most ridiculous combos.

  • Admiral Raptor

    So in other words the tournament scene is the same as it always has been.Thanks for the update.

  • Mandragola

    Wait, so you weren’t there but have written an article throwing shade at people who were?

    When people start being forced to go to tournaments, people who don’t even want to attend can start complaining about them.

  • Mira Bella

    Sarcasm? It has to be.

  • Jabberwokk

    It’s the game of thrones baby.
    And in it you win or you die.
    Git. gud.

    You know if you fluff bunnies had anything of value to offer you would be writing articles about what a bunch of Narrative players were doing on the weekend, or how to make specific terrain pieces, or having your own BoLS narrative compaign on youtube.

    The only thing people know you blowhards for anymore is how much you loathe WAAC and competitive. It’s like your only defining trait left. People know you by what you arn’t and not what you are. There’s a word for that:Losers. And no one wants to be, be around, or hang out with Losers. So cut it out.

    DOOOOO something ya daft gits!

  • generalchaos34

    Am I the only person who is happy that the winning list (despite it being illegal in the end, a simple change to a company commander would fix that and not take too much away from the main idea) was a “real” list meaning that it wasn’t built around some highly abusive gimmick or character spam, or utilizing one really undercosted person (thats you RG). Now it does have lots of death riders, but I wonder if the same idea could be had using outflanking regular Rough Riders with special weapons for the point savings. All in all it looks very very solid and I like that these kinds of lists can have a chance now.

    • Charles Keeling

      It wasn’t a completely easy fix since every part of the list has a purpose (only one Cadian character, the others were different regiments for a reason). Furthermore the list is identical to just about every winning guard list is identical, the guard book is the only one flexible enough currently to allow a solid anvil, hammer, and redundancy. Rough riders are good, as are a dozen other imperial options. It’s cute to use FW, but he still can win switching them out with crusaders, dreadknights or many other options. You can name a guard unit and three are there to take it’s place. You cannot do that currently with brimstone horrors, Bobby G, Morty or Magnus. Guard has interchangeable value three-five units deep.

      His list could of switched any imperial unit for Kreig units and been the same list. He used a very specific relic, massed cheap heavy weapons that bypassed their deficiency and rolled people. He had piles of bodies to block, it wasn’t conscript/commissar but the effect is identical. This wasnt a new wheel, it was a different paint job on the same WAAC wheel currently spinning.

  • Troy G

    I just dumped on another article for feeding the trolls, but I really enjoyed this one. Lots of perspective, and analysis.

    My hope is that articles like this can shine a light for GW on the mistakes they are making, and help us improve the game for the average player. I’m not dumping on GW, they do lots of good things, but it is important that they keep their eye on the prize, and that is fun games.

    • marxlives

      True, honestly I never heard ANYONE talk about 40k as a great tournament system built from the ground up. That doesn’t mean it is not fun to play in a casual setting. Players trying to force 40k into the role of a tournament miniature wargame.

      There are certain guys in my area who are great guys AND have never lost sight of what 40k is all about. They always buy the best stuff and the best Forge World stuff and win. Even when they haven’t played in months. They enjoy the brokeness of the game. Are cool to chill with and they are realists.

      I know a lot of guys who play 40k (heck even WHFB) and have fun having 40k as their casual while they have a second game that they use as their competitive game. This story of trying to force 40k into a balanced tournament game is old as time and we haven’t seen it happen with 8th yet. Just play 40k and choose another game to scratch that tournament itch.

    • The games are fun. So long as you are playing against people that share your idea of fun.

      Tournament guys that LOVE waac style powergaming have a blast at tournaments.

      Tournament gaming is all about powergaming and crushing your opponent to get max event points. If you don’t like that style of play, one should not go to tournaments.

  • Danny Janevski

    Hillarious ! And true

  • GerManticore

    People should use PL instead of points for tournaments.

    Hilariously and counterintuitively, it ends up more varied and balanced as people can bring lots of toys to mow down Primarchs and Brimstones alike.

    At the very least, it shakes things up.

    • Charles Keeling

      One detachment, these mess armies stem from abusing three piles of different regiments/force organization choices/ bypassing any tax.

      • Gorsameth

        Guard wins that hands down since they don’t need soup to win.

  • CKyle80

    This is some pretty lazy “journalism” right here.

    First off, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t count Death Guard as a separate faction considering that they play different than most Chaos lists and have their own distinct units. They can ally with CSM, sure, but so can daemons, should we count them in the same faction as well? Are Dark or Blood Angels counted as SM?

    Second, the factions that have the most representation are the factions that have new codexes, so it’s no surprise that they have more lists there. Because that’s how it’s always been, especially right now when a good chunk the factions don’t have a codex.

    Third, you complain that there are too many primarchs and then you complain that the list that won was built to counter primarchs. Shouldn’t that prove that no matter what list you take there might be one to counter? Why is it a problem to take primarchs if they can get blown off the board by AM, and why is it a problem to take AM to counter primarchs if they’re such a problem in the meta?

    Fourth, you whine about Forge World, but there was a LOT of Forge World units and even a Titanicus army that didn’t get to the top tables, so why is Forge World such a problem? You want to complain about broken units, go ahead, but to make it sound like FW is some sort of edge in and of itself is simply not true.

    I’m truly curious how much research you did for this. Did you witness any games at the event or any games featuring similar lists at all? Talk to any players who attended or have played against these lists? Look up individual matchups to see if these lists walked all over every other list or possibly struggled at any point? Check and see how many of the top players were tournament veterans who have an edge due to experience and dedication? Actually look to see if lists were different and played different (i.e., the 2nd and 3rd place chaos lists, which are technically the same Chaos soup faction, but play completely different)? Or is it just everything that’s the same faction exists in a vacuum and is more or less the same list in your eyes?

    Honestly, it feels like someone went to look at the results, saw that there were a large portion of chaos armies and new codex armies, jumped to the conclusion that the meta is crap without any critical thinking, and then made a weak attempt at humor by wrapping a lazy opinion in disingenuous, forced sarcasm while ignoring relevant data beyond the list total.

  • Puddinhead Wilson

    No one forces you to play in tournaments. They will always be what you’ve described.

  • kobalt60

    For some reason, I thought goatboy wrote this article, and I wasn’t picking up the sarcasm when he said he hated variety and loved lists with only 2 or 3 types of units in it. Then as I read further, I thought he must have had a stroke before he wrote this, then I started to figure it out. Not my best day clearly

  • orionburn III

    Man I cannot get over how pathetic this site has gotten. I went to Warzone. This was one of the best weekends I’ve ever had playing 40k. Warzone is an absolute blast and you have to understand the atmosphere. Part of the fun is building absolutely insane lists. I ran my Tyranids and didn’t do half bad for a guy that’s never even been in a GT before. I faced a Warhound Titan and still had a fun game. Maybe if the author actually attended the event they wouldn’t be such a crybaby over it. I met some great people and played some of the best games ever. I played 5 games – one against Wolves, one AdMech, one Ork list, one Titan list, and one Dark Angels list.

    Warzone is a party first, tournament second. The author needs to get off their moral high horse.

  • Al238

    The winning Astra list technically is invalid. Relic of Lost Cadia has to be on a Cadian model, and Primaris Psykers don’t have the regiment keyword. Not that it would be hard to fix.=/