40K RUMORS: The Narrative Moves Forward

There’s talk out there on what GW is planning to recapture the magic of this year’s Gathering Storm series.

This year saw the Gathering Storm three part series pull 40K forward kicking and screaming. Cadia blew up, Biel-Tan got fractured, A new Eldar god rose, Guilliman woke up from a very, very long nap.  It was awesome and each book was accompanied by a “triumvirate boxed set” that game us awesome character minis, both old and new.

We got all of this at the very tail end of Warhammer 40k’s 7th Edition, but while the rules’s didn’t last the narrative and the minis did – dovetailing right into 8th Edition.

Industry professionals tell BoLS to look for something along the same lines in the near future.

  • There will be a new narrative-campaign book coming shortly.
  • It will be accompanied by a triumvirate set.
  • The contents will be a Primarch – Lion El’Jonson
  • A existing Blood Angel character
  • A new character

This sounds very similar to the Triumvirate of the Primarch set which included

  • Guilliman
  • Cypher
  • that grey knight dude… Grandmaster Whatshisface

Things we don’t know.

Only 1 book was described but based on GW’s pattern for Q1 of this year It’s hard to believe they wouldn’t want to knock out another trilogy.

There are obvious tie-ins and low hanging fruit left over from the first Gathering Storm trilogy that fit into the just announced upcoming codexes like a glove.  For example, we know Fulgrim has multiple appearances and speaking parts in Gathering storm. He’s an obvious choice for the next Chaos Primarch. GW just announced that Codex Chaos Deamons will be the first codex of 2018.  Interesting…  For that matter there has been talk of a plastic Great Unclean One and a possible Keeper of Secrets for well over a year too. Again the potential for one/both of those to make a grand entrance right around the time both a new 2018 narrative arc and a Chaos Daemon codex is coming seems like match made in heaven.

My biggest question about Lion El Jonson isn’t what would happen upon his return (he can just wake up Snow White style – full of righteous fury and scurrying Watchers in the Dark) – but what his rules would be?  He’s kind of vague in the rules department compared to the other Primarchs and I have no idea what GW would give him to make the Dark Angels unique. He’s one of the primarchs who didn’t do all that much during the Heresy – half Tarzan, half King Arthur.

Put me down for rerolls to hit on all Dark Angels plasma weapons on the tabletop, and no gets hot. 🙂

 

~Have at it.

  • Ryan Miller

    Still not going to have an Iron Hands character though…

    • Iconoc1ast

      it is a shame that not all of the founding legions have been fleshed out the same way that BA/DA/SW/UM have

      • Ari Varey

        Fully 100% agree. However there is still a ton of time to flesh out the “vanilla” space marines. Remember that Games Workshop need to release something once all the new codexs are out.

        • Chris Hateley

          It is a mystery why GW chose those particular legions to focus on rather than the others, I guess they just felt they had the most interesting fluff. Frankly though, they already release far too many space marines. Just look at how many pages of SM products they have on their webstore, compared to how many pages the other armies have.

          Couple that with the fact that FW is now entirely dedicated to space marines (when was the last non-SM release?) and I think we could probably go without space marine releases for the next 30 years or so.

          Some people collect other armies.

          • Ak318

            Last non space marine release was custodes and tau with their fliers. A month or two back.

          • To be fair, Custodes are just better golden Space Marines. And one flier… yea, exceptions prove the rule. 😉

          • Koen Diepen Van

            The flyers are just a re release tough. But maby we get some cools stuff for eldar or tyranids to go whit the new codex. But i do unterstand it i think marnies is like 60-70% of sales it makes sense to market to the larger base.

          • Henn & egg problem imo. They sell more thus they produce more to sell more.

          • Chris Hateley

            Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Would they still account for 60-70% of sales if they didn’t take up so much of the range?

          • NNextremNN

            Probably yeah. They kinda are what 40K is known for. They are the ones outsiders will think of if you mention warhammer … if they think of anything.

          • NNextremNN

            More of a redesign like they did with the Barracuda and Thunderhawk. The air caste pilots were just re releases of old models.

          • I_am_Alpharius

            Or the Blood Bowl and Lord of the Rings products 😉

          • Wolf-Assassin

            FW last non-SM release? last week? T’AU TIGER SHARK AX-1-0 🙂

          • Chris Hateley

            Wasn’t that a re-release?

          • I_am_Alpharius

            Yes and no. It was available before. Saying that, this is an update sculpt with certain design details tweaked inline with the detail on T’au plastics. It is also been made easier to build – plus the main weapons are entirely interchangeable. It the same thing FW did with the Thunderhawk. One thing FW are also doing as kits are update etc… where it is useful (i.e. weapons) they are sculpting in recesses for magnets, to aid the hobbyist who want to magnetise stuff!

          • NNextremNN

            Redesign like the new Thunderhawk or Barracuda.

          • lunahula .

            I think looking back it was much the same story as characters like Ghazghkull that started life as the creation of one of the core team just to be played in 40K, then ended up becoming a full part of the lore of the game and everything. So I suspect that the chapters that became the core around 2nd Edition onwards did so because they were the chapters core staffers were more or the most invested in personally. So they wrote articles for White Dwarf and things to include in codexes, this eventually led up to being the greater fleshed out lore we know today.

            Sadly it has meant that a lot of chapters have been left behind simply because they didn’t have an advocate and now things are so set on their course, it would be hard to flesh those chapters back out again. I would like them to at the very least just have upgrade kits, to make them more viable to more gamers, not just those with money to burn or a talent for free hand.

          • NNextremNN

            I got the new Tiger Shark last week sooo I’m not saying you’re wrong but you’re not correct either.

          • Vayle

            we should be getting Fires of Cyraxis… some day… maybe?

          • Chris Hateley

            What’s that?

      • Actually I’d prefer they’d all be closer to one another and wouldn’t need a bazillion own books and units. FW is already too busy with producing nothing else but Legion specific stuff.

    • Drpx

      I’m holding out for Manus coming back as a head on a robot body.

    • Rob

      Manus resurrected by the Necrons. Iron hands first of the Necro-marines… we could only hope.

      • frank

        Everyone knows the Blood Angels are the Necron homies. =D

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      well there are in HH, which is all I’m playing so its OK for me I guess.

  • Chris Hateley

    Where are all the chaos triumvirates? Surely it’s about time Abaddon got a revamp and he’d be ideal for a triumvirate release.

    • Defenestratus

      Eldar “Court of the Phoenix King” box would be perfect too…

      Avatar + all Phoenix Lords.

      Wet dream but it will happen in my lifetime – maybe.

      • Chris Hateley

        Agreed on the phoenix lords. I reckon if GW ever actually get around to resculpting the Avatar though, it’ll probably be a huge model in the £70 – £80 range, like the greater daemons, and the named daemon princes (it is essentially a daemon after all).

        • Me

          Yep. And I would be totally cool with that.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          We already have a Forge World model. I would rather GW replace so many other things in the elderly Eldar range,

          • Chris Hateley

            What like? Just curious.

            I’m not a massive fan of the FW one to be honest. It’s not bad, but I think by today’s standards GW could probably do something a lot better. For the time being I’m using the one from the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood with the spikey bits cut off, but this is really just a place holder.

            Plastic aspect warriors would be nice, but I don’t have a problem with the current designs (although warp spiders could do with not all being in more or less the same pose). I’d rather get a new avatar and phoenix lords before anything else as I’ve been into the hobby for 23 years and they were in stores when I started.

          • ieyke

            ForgeWorld actually has TWO Avatars.
            They’re both weirdly…..practical?
            Way too practical for 40k.
            No big, crazy, overly dramatic ridiculous poses, just kinda…natural.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            The spear looks amazing!

          • Chris Hateley

            I think that might be why I’m not that enamoured with them. The sculpts are good and all, I just find them a little bland. I know that’s probably not a popular opinion in a time when people (understandably) think models have a little too much going on nowadays.

          • frank

            plastic warlocks box be way more useful than another avatar sculpt.

      • NNextremNN

        You already had your Eldar triumvirate let other Xenos have a chance too …

    • piglette

      New Chaos Triumvirate: Abaddon plastic model (same sculpt, just translated to plastic), new Khorne Bloodthirster named character, goofy Deathguard character with excessive sculpted on smoke and giant fly things. Only 120 USD

      • Chris Hateley

        Joking aside, Khan would’ve been the next obvious release to go in Abaddon’s triumvirate, if they hadn’t already revamped him. I think the next obvious would be Lucius since he’s the only big four character to have not been resculpted, but after what they did with AoS I’m not confident that GW has any plans for Slaanesh in 40k any time soon.

        • James Regan

          I’m still hoping they revive slaanesh with a bit of a change in art direction for the Daemons. It’d also make an interesting AoS release if they managed to truly get something they’re comfortable with, but the old daemon stuff lurched from ‘we probbly can’t sell this to kids’ into ‘still a bit questionable by those who objected before, only the designs are more boring now’. There’s a bunch of stuff they could do with the concept of excess (gluttonous daemons, daemons covered in gold and wealth, daemonettes that actually try to look beautiful, distended sensory features etc.) and avoid all that they’ve taken a step back from, but they need a team with a few great design ideas to push it through, as they can’t keep iterating on the old design if they are going to try and make it kid friendly

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Yeah. Imagine a Daemonette that looked like Xerxes from 300.

          • Chris Hateley

            In the appropriate scale, that would actually make an awesome daemon prince.

          • euansmith

            Isn’t that kid of the Slaughter Priest? Hmmmm, conversion idea 😀

          • euansmith

            Slaanesh should rock all the way up past 11! Have a good time, all the time.

    • euansmith

      Surely it should be a Slaanesh Septumvirate, a Nurgle Septumvirate, a Khorne Octumvirate, and a Tzeentch Nonumvirate?

      • NoNameMonster

        …and a Tyranid nomnomnomvirate?

  • Mathew G. Smith

    Third character is Luthor, also canonically still alive in the rock. Just a guess.

  • piglette

    His name is Voldus and he’s fun to paint.

  • I_am_Alpharius

    And the Oscar for “Rumours Guessing the Obvious” goes too….

    Seriously. This all, pretty, much stating the obvious. With both AoS and 40K trend for the last couple of years to progress the story through campagne/narrative driven books and box sets. Another Primarch (of either flavour) returning to the fore is going to happen on a regular basis – the recent narrative has eluded this to be Lion’el Johnson (and/or Sanguinius in my opinion). The use of triple model box continuing is not an unreasonable assertion to make either as it seems they were well received by hobbyist – I’m personally on the fence on that one if that will the path GW go down.

    • Ari Varey

      I’m with you on the 3 model boxed set. The Eldar one is fine, but both Imperium ones are odd. I would love to get Celestine, but having that include Cawl is a waste because I will never ever get ad mech. Guilliman would be cool to get just to paint him, but I will never play Grey Knights, so that is a waste.

      It does make a hell of a lot of sense from a marketing stand point. “Well I got this cool character from this army I’ve never played, why not get a start collecting?”.

      All that said, they can put whatever the hell they want with the Lion and Sanguinius and I will pay the price. I collect both and I love the Angels of Death!

  • Spacefrisian

    Kind of sad that the word daemons is so hard to spell even with the word being shown on the codex cover on this site so many times. Even more when one that isnt even English-speaking has to point it out.

    • euansmith

      It is that standard rule of English that “a” goes before “e”, except when you type faster than you should.

      Actually, on the name front, I’m surprised that GW hasn’t doubled down and gone for Dæioumons or even Chæious Dæioumons. After all, not only can’t Dæmon be copyrighted, it actually means a more or less benevolent spiritual being, rather than a murderous Chaos monster.

    • I_am_Alpharius

      It is one human error typing mistake – no need to get all high and mighty….

      If you wish to get persnickety, then write to GW. They are the people that have got their meaning of Daemons and Demons mixed up in the first place; as there is a subtle difference – often dictionaries simple say Daemon is an alternative spelling of Demon. One has Latin roots and the other Greek.

      When you dig into the etymology of them both you find:
      – A demon is an evil spirit, a devil, an inhabitant of hell. Demons are often depicted with horns, a pointed tail, cloves hood and grotesques faces. The word demon is derived from the Latin word daemonium which means lesser spirit or evil spirit.
      – The idea of the daemon comes from the beliefs of the Ancient Greeks. To them, a daemon was a spiritual being falling somewhere between a god and a human. Daemons are good or helpful spirits. The word daemon is derived from the Greek term daimōn (which also can be an alternate spelling)

      So really GW Daemons should be Demon – since they are inherently evil creatures in the background.

      • eMtoN

        I think that rather depends on your point of view. There are those of us that believe the Imperium should be cleansed with fire. In that regard Daemons are quite helpful.

      • Bakvrad

        As far as I recall, the eudaimon is the good spirit. The other one is just the spirit.

        • I_am_Alpharius

          Yeah Eudaimon are goodie good ones. Daimon is a catch all term for Greek spirits that are both ‘good or benign’.

          It was the good old ‘Old Testament’ Christians (no offence to anyone of Christian Belief) that started to associated the Greek word Daemon for their idea of evil being – probably a deliberate act in order to quash out traditional Greek belief system, just like they appropriated loads of Pagan beliefs to stamp that out.

          • euansmith

            Nothing say, “Hozannah! The Messiah is reborn!” quite like a bunny rabbit. 😀

      • Muninwing

        the middle english word comes from the latin one, which came from the greek. there is no appreciable difference between aside from the spelling… and middle english spelling is something of a loose agreement anyway.

        the greek — and by distillation, the latin — were not beneficial. they were natural. they were independent, instead of malefic. they did their own thing. but it was equal odds if a dryad or nereid or oread would guide you out of the woods, or defend their demesnes from you, depending on circumstances.

        the malefic aspect came from the christianization of the pagan, where if there were such spirits they’d have to be related to evil ways… which was then incorporated into the generic catchall of non-heavenly forces.

        we’re talking hundreds of years of distillation, and a ton of shades and nuances depending on what was religiously/politically going on… and culture shifts from years and thousands of miles…

        so… no. the words are effectively the same. and the designation here was to not use “demon” for fear of scaring parents away. they can use the terminology however they want. nitpicking on useless criteria with huge amounts of concept shift is perhaps not useful.

      • James Regan

        but daemons in 40k are spiritual beings falling between the gods and men. Just because you follow the false emperor and his tyrannical, intolerant ways does not mean the word is inaccurate.

  • Fergie0044

    Using narrative books makes sense – will allow them to release new stuff independent of the codexs. So we can get two release windows for 40k; the steady stream of 8th codexs on one hand and new models etc on the other.

    • Muninwing

      depends on the scale….

      the older way, of using books like Eye of Terror and Armageddon to sum up one conflict or one planet was perhaps limiting. the idea that a multisystem or multiplanet conflict came along, the scale would be possibly problematic.

      but the recent books became… bigger. more significant. broader, while less useful.

      pushing forward the narrative is unsustainable. it eventually runs into problems, and it eventually creates an escalating insanity that changes the fundamentals of the game.

      i’d love to see 2 new books a year, that detailed new conflicts and new battlefronts.

      i just want their fluff to be better than most of what GW has published in the lat three years.

  • euansmith

    “Industry professionals…”

    Top people.

    • Diagoras

      “We have industry professionals telling us right now.”

      “Who?”

      “Industry. Professionals.”

  • SilentPony

    So a new Dante or Mephiston, the Lion, and probably a Custodian character.

    • Ari Varey

      Never thought of a Custodian, but it could make sense. There is a pretty good chance that the Emperor is about to die, or come under very serious threat.

      • Evil Otto

        They’ve been hinting in the lore surrounding Dante that Emps is going to be seriously threatened, and Dante might be the one who sacrifices his life to save him.

    • Dulahan

      Here’s a theory. what if the new campaign series focuses on the Orks instead of Chaos? Then the third Impiem could be Yarrick, kept alive by the Orky desire that only Ghazgkhul can kill him… (and thus, second Triumvirate be a new Ork one… with Ghazgkhul Ork Prime model!)

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        So far all of the Triumverates have shared a keyword. It might be difficult for Ork players to buy a box set that includes Yarrick, and vice versa for IG players.

        • Dulahan

          No, I was saying Yarrick would be in the Lion’s boxed set. Wouldn’t be any different from the two Impie ones we have so far.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Oh ok. Cool. I was thinking you were going to have a Ghaz, Yarrick and a Daemon boxset to represent the leaders of Armageddon.

          • Dulahan

            Nope. Was saying that maybe the next narrative would focus on Orks instead of Chaos as the villain. So a Lion & Friends set (W/Yarrick and a Blood Angel). Ork Prime Ghazkghul & friends, and who knows what third.

      • euansmith

        An effectively undead commissar would be a great idea.

        • Dulahan

          My Lord Commissar, we cannot explain it. By any account you should be long dead of Old Age. But by the Emperor’s blessing you somehow live! A true miracle!

          *Meanwhile, in Orkdom, Ghazkghul continues telling stories about how one day he’ll FINALLY be able to kill his rival. And Orks everywhere KNOW it will happen. And just like their tech shouldn’t work, somehow, Yarrick continues to ‘work’ because they KNOW it will happen someday.*

          • euansmith

            😀 😀 😀

          • Dulahan

            It would be such a weirdly… Orky thing. And totally work in setting.

          • euansmith

            Next up, a Radical Inquisitor and an Insane Ministorium Prelate team up to breed a group of Orkz that will really, really, really believe that the Emperor is alive 😀

          • Dulahan
          • euansmith

            Looted Goldun Frone 😀

  • Ari Varey

    The Lion didn’t do all that much? He did take over a ton of planets, but I agree there wasn’t much development. Imo he would/should be the best melee loyalist Primarch. He did beat Russ in a duel (mostly because Russ found it all funny) and what few melee battles did take place, he came out on top.

    Luther nearly got him, but Chaos corruption can make a mere mortal godlike in power. He was able to beat a Chaos corrupted mortal, unlike his father.

    • Dennis J. Pechavar

      According to the fluff only Horus had more victories than the Dark Angels during the Crusade. Sadly they have been retconning a great deal of fluff so who knows anymore.

      • Ari Varey

        With ya there. But with luck the retcons help bring back Sanguinius. I wouldn’t be the only Angels of Death player that would die from ectasy if they did.

        Wait that kinda sounded heretical.

        • Muninwing

          how terrible would it be for the flavor of the BA for Sanguinius to come back… the whole “black rage” rooted in the death of their primarch is fundamental to their lore. take away the death, and wouldn’t the core difference that makes them non-compliant go away?

          • Ari Varey

            Sanguinius being resurrected wouldn’t undo his memories, which is the long standing theory of the existence of the black rage. Also his resurrection could also be very traumatic to his soul, which could further fuel the black rage.

          • Hamish Beer

            As a long-time BA player, I’d be disappointed if they resurrected him. It would devalue his sacrifice at the Battle of Terra. He’s venerated around the Imperium for his selflessness and humility. Same with Ferrus or Horus. If either of those were resurrected, it would devalue the HH as a whole.

          • euansmith

            So maybe wait until after BL has brought out the last HH book 😉

  • Dulahan

    The Lion is, hands down, the most interesting “second” Primarch if you ask me. He’s a natural foil for Guilliman. Especially when you remember The Lion went into stasis very early on, the Codex Astartes hadn’t been made official yet (remember this, it’s important!), and he had a pretty serious beef with Guilliman as of the more recent Heresy books. They are not going to get along!

    As for the Codex? The Lion is gonna be PISSED about that one, he already took a moment to almost literally walk up to and deck Horus in one of the books for daring to order some of his people to serve as reinforcements. He’s possessive as heck! Horus was like “dude, that planet was rebelling, your forces served amazingly, we needed them.” And the Lion still wasn’t having anything of it. What’s more, he thought Guilliman was powermad (pot, meet kettle!). He is another Charismatic leader for others to rally around. Definitely an interesting story, at the very least.

    Any other Primarch being ‘second’ I could see ultimately falling in line with Guilliman, potential bumps on the road for sure. But ultimately working together. Remember, they all already were after the Heresy! But when The Lion is back in the picture? A rival even? That could see some loyalties start to fray a bit. Camps forming.

    So yeah, the second returning Imperial Primarch is gonna set a precedent. Others might be ‘cool’ or even more interesting characters. But none are going to be as great an option for the narrative as The Lion would be! If he were third (and let’s not mince words, he’s either second or third amongst loyalists, with the other being Russ. We ALL know this to be true!), he’d already be on the back foot. It would lose some of the oomph and the narrative weight to give him a good position to help split views of the Imperium up.

    • william timonen

      I think the best part about that kind of civil war is that we now would have proper lore reasons for all the Imperium armies fighting eachothers, that theyre on the opposite of sides of the conflict. A custodes army fighting Guilliman? Its because theyre on the Lions side and sees him as a “false prophet” that doesnt really serve the Emperor. Etc, etc.

      • Ari Varey

        There has been a lore reason for a long time now: heresy. I truely don’t think they are going down the civil war route. I think they will go down the we are totally screwed route. I see Lion and Guilliman working together quite easily. Do you think they will just ignore the giant warp rift so they can fight over spilled milk?

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          The Primarchs are some of the most petty and belligerent people in the 40k universe. Their petty BS caused so many problems.

          • Ari Varey

            I 100% agree with that. However 10k years can heal some wounds. We will see, and I know I will buy all the books that have to do with my favorite Primarch.

          • euansmith

            But 10,000 years hasn’t past for either of these guys. They slept through most of the intervening time and their beefs are going to still be very fresh in their minds.

          • frank

            Thats gotta be a really depressing way to wake up to for any of the primarchs. Like “everyone you knew aside from your least favorite brothers are dead and the brothers that helped cripple your father and put him in a coma are now imortal supper monsters”.

          • euansmith

            I like the idea of a “supper monster”; coming late to the feast. 😉

            The cultural and technological regression would be depressing too. Imagine waking up one morning to find you are suddenly living in the 19th century?

          • frank

            haha yea that and the religious regressions got to be really rough like you would remember when the post office didnt have religious overtones.

          • euansmith

            Delivering the post has always been a sacred duty! 😀

          • Dulahan

            Exactly.

            That’s the thing. ALL the other surviving loyalists had a chance during the Scouring to make things good with Robby G. The Lion? He had his little issue during the Heresy. He went into stasis still nurturing a tremendous beef with Guilliman, feeling betrayed by him, thinking he was too power hungry. The Lion is also notably REALLY against people telling his Legion what to do that aren’t him or the Emperor. Even the WARMASTER before Horus went traitor.

      • Dulahan

        This. What would also be cool is if the Primarchs then split the Empire up like the old Roman Tetrarchy/duoarchy. Each ruling a part of the Empire to keep things more centralized/. Ultimately the ‘same’ but with plenty of intra-conflict here and there too. Even if the same ultimate goal. (G-man ruling the Terra side of the Rift. The Lion the Dark side of it – or even more compartmentalized if more primarchs come back)

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          I imagine, no one would want to rule the Dark side of the Imperium. Its kind of a lost cause. Much more likely that Guilliman would rule Ultramar and the surrounding era. The Lion would be given an equally sized area on the other end of the Imperium.

          • Dulahan

            Oddly, I could see Leman Russ or Chags being fine with it. And honestly, probably The Lion too. They were all less tied to Terra than the rest, and more interested in furthering humanity. Actually, I could see Vulkan being game for it too.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            If they are going to bring the Triumverate back, then I could see the Imperium being broken up into 3 chunks, with Sanguinius ruling the dark side, since Baal is over there.

          • Dulahan

            I really, really don’t forsee Sanguinus coming back!

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            They moved his corpse to Luna. I am betting the Sanguinor will be revealed as the essence of Sanguinius who will then be merged with his body in some kind of weird ritual.

          • euansmith

            “The year is 50 BC 40k.Gaul the Imperium is entirely occupied by the Romans Primaris Marines. Well, not entirely… One small village planet of indomitable Gauls Space Marines still holds out against the invaders…

          • william timonen

            Considering how he liberated Caliban from daemons and stuff Im pretty sure the Lion would just feel at home on the Dark side.

          • Muninwing

            i could see the “Angels of Death” allying, maybe with the Scars, maybe with the Wolves…. grudgingly. they’d be good allies on the dark side, and they’d all be willing to get elbow-deep in the muck and daemon guts…

            i could see Dorn, Vulkan, and Gulliman all hanging out together in the light side, maybe pushing for revising the imperium’s religious side. maybe having to pretend to be ok with it, while working on fixing problems in the administration.

            and at first it would be a good working relationship… but i cold see the administratum and ecclesiarchy wearing down those primarchs. while the others getting gritty and severe as time went on.

            i could also see in this case a rift between the Lion and the Wolf… as well as between Gulliman and Vulkan. one becomes two becomes four.

            Corax will have to come back eventually… no idea what he’ll be doing.

        • william timonen

          That idea is awesome!

    • Apocryphus

      I would LOVE it if the Lion came back and called out Guilliman on everything, but knowing GW, they’ll probably make them best buddies and the Lion will support everything immediately because reasons.

      • Ari Varey

        I don’t think he will support him in everything. I think he will see the shambles and realize why he did it. Then he will gather the Dark Angels and take over the galaxy while Guilliman picks up after him.

      • The Lion was extremely suspicious of Guilliman when he heard of him building a new empire during the Heresy. He might’ve killed him had Guilliman tried to put himself on the throne, rather than Sanguinius.

        Seeing what Guilliman did after the fall of Caliban, I have no doubt that Lion El’Johnson will be mad. Then there’s the entire thing about the Inquisition doubting his Legion/Chapters’ honor, with investigations being a thing even during Warzone Fenris. Hearing what his sons did over the past ten thousand years to hide their shame will be a mixed bag too. Nevermind what Cypher will bring to the table, whether he’s Zahariel El’Zurias or Holguin, or somebody else entirely. And remember that Cypher is still carrying the Lion’s Blade that Guilliman himself broke in front of his brother’s eyes…

        • Apocryphus

          I would be thrilled of everything went that direction, but I have little faith in GW after the Inquisition turned a blind eye to Guilliman’s resurrection through filthy xenos witch technology (Eldar) and another blind eye to the gene heresy committed by Cawl (improve upon the Emperor’s perfect gene seed technology? What heresy is this?) If the Lion returns and starts something with Guilliman for what he’s done/doing, I will applaud GW for taking a brave step by implying the good guys aren’t actually that good in more than just passing background. I’m just paranoid that GW will just write it as “all is forgiven, let’s fight some bad guys.”

          • I don’t think it is that black and white. We got one campaign book about the resurrection of Guilliman, which mostly dealt with his travels to Terra and the declaration of his new crusade. Then we got the main book for 8th, which is rarely the most comprehensive volume, and the Codex: Space Marines.
            While I agree that more suspicion should be visible at this point, we really haven’t gotten much fluff about it at all.

            Cawl isn’t even fully trusted by Guilliman and he is seen as a heretek by many of his peers. He’s not being entrusted with Mars or becoming Fabricator General and Guilliman himself predicts him becoming a liability and needing to be disposed before long.

            I can definitely see concerns with the GW design team’s lore – I share them. Their delivery is pretty terrible in many cases. However, looking at Guy Haley’s works with Dark Imperium, set ~120 years post-GS, many things are put in place for proper tellings. Chris Wraights’ Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor’s Legion shows key moments from Rise of the Primarch in MUCH better light, in a believeable fashion that also shows how Guilliman takes control / the High Lords mistrusting him. They don’t even really know what happened on Macragge and how he got back at the start, if they ever learned about it in detail.

            The entire Primaris distrust angle and heresy stuff still needs to be properly tackled by Black Library, and there’s a bunch of that in the pipeline. Devastation of Baal by Haley should examine a bit of that via the Blood Angels, there are multiple Indomitus-setting novels coming as well. So far, we only really got the Ultramarines’ view, and they got Guilliman back and still struggle with that. Heck, Calgar is starting to feel obsolete. We have yet to find out how the Wolves regard it, the Dark Angels, you get the drift.

            At this point I consider GW Design Studio writing a rough sketch of events with little to no depth, whereas the Black Library offerings add all that stuff back in and make it plausible. Even Mortarion’s Heart worked out fine when Laurie Goulding wrote his audio script, and Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor’s Legion made the Custodes-back-in-town idea work nicely.

    • Ari Varey

      I don’t for a second think that there will be any loyalty issues. I think the honest and most likely scenario is Guilliman appologizing for his sins. His attitude is 100% different after realizing that his father sees him as a tool. There is a strong chance that he will ask the Lion to be warmaster again and have both try to resurrect Sanguinius.

      I could honestly even see him give control over the Imperium to the Lion, so he can focus on rebuilding it. Unless the Emperor dies in this story advancement, I could see the Lion also having a long heart to heart with his father that could very well change him too.

    • Fergie0044

      Have an upvote because I so so so want this to be what happens.

  • How many Primarchs one can field at once?

    • Dennis J. Pechavar

      All of them…

      • I should’ve marked that as a rhetorical question, sorry.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Exactly half of them, since they all have to share a keyword.

        • Dennis J. Pechavar

          I was just messing with you. You do know that if the option is there then people will do it. I don’t like the idea of fielding super heavies or Primarch level characters in any game less than Apocalypse size but sadly that is not a thing anymore.

          • I’m not sure that’s something new really. When I think of Psychers or Warp Spider Exarchs or special characaters in 2nd edition, they were just as powerful as a Primarch or Super Heavy. It’s been 3rd, 4th and 5th that were mediocre when it comes to power-level of individuals I’d say.

            But of course, if they exist, people will field them.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            Vortex grenades! I prefer to remember fielding a solitaire with the maugatar (before it was Maugan Ra only) with combat drugs and melta bombs. Pretty sure that was how I fielded him, it’s been a couple decades. Filthy xenos death machine.

          • Hell, yea! 😛

  • Nate Underwood

    Didn’t Chaos all-ready get their codex? Are we doing supplement Dark Angles for it already?

  • Sonic tooth

    So this is the complete opposite to what the rumors on naftka were saying earlier today. I’d like to see the lion, great character and would really push the narrative. I’m presuming Russ will be next tho (and I’m not a fan of space wolves). I hope they bring corax back after the big 4….I love Sanguinius but he should stay dead

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    Please GW for the love of all that’s holy don’t make that last picture be the model for the Lion! Please!

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      That picture looks like a Chaos Space Marine wearing a lion’s face.

      • Bootneck

        Yeah it does look proper evil. I’d say its closer to a WFB Chaos Chosen, too evil for a SM though!

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          Exactly!

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        I know I say this a lot but for all that’s Holy I wish GW would stop pushing the DA’s are all traitors line! As has been said over and over again by the Night Haunter no less, “No matter how this ends you’ll be considered a traitor in the days that come.” That is a very rough recital as I don’t have the book on me. The HH story has shown over and over that the Lion is loyal but because we get writers who are trying to make other Primarchs look good or just don’t like the Lion we get this nonsense, again! I’m not saying he’s a nice guy or someone you want to hang out with, that would be Vulkan, but he isn’t a chaos marine.

        • I don’t see where GW has been doing the whole “Lion is a traitor” thing. The only real sources on that relate to the Fallen, who are notoriously biased. Especially Astelan Merir, who is one of the chief architects of Luther’s seccessionist movement.

          The Legion had traitor elements, but they weren’t under the Lion’s command. If anyone is disloyal, it’d be the current day Unforgiven, due to abandoning wars and allies when they notice the presence of a Fallen nearby. Which is something that the Lion himself kinda did as well, during the Imperium Secundus arc, when he hunted for Curze in secret and didn’t respond to recall.

          The Lion’s secretive and an unlikeable bag of arrogance, and he’s super miffed he didn’t get to be Warmaster. But that’s about it. He even nearly killed Russ when they arrived late to Terra and the Emperor was already struck down.

    • It’s like BoLS tried to find the oldest possible picture of the guy, when there were at least two recent Neil Roberts covers for the HH novels, internal art and what not…

      • Sonic tooth

        He’s supposed to look noble, in the latest Roberts one he looks like a fat wrestler trucker

  • Atogrim

    Where is the news? They announced “back in the day” at the end of the gathering storm series that they will continue with this topic. Warzone Cadia for example.
    The Lion is a relative safe bet anyway for two reasons: He is still there, so no weird explanation needed where he has been and what he has done. And the next one is that the Lion and the grand smurf don’t see eye to eye. Makes for (hopefully) easy and good storytelling.

  • Sonic tooth

    So this is the complete opposite to what the rumors on other sites were saying earlier today. I’d like to see the lion, great character and would really push the narrative. I’m presuming Russ will be next tho (and I’m not a fan of space wolves). I hope they bring corax back after the big 4….I love Sanguinius but he should stay dead

    • Dennis J. Pechavar

      Keep Dorn dead as well. I know Lord Adorable is supposedly hiding out in a suit of Centurion armour on Terra but I loath Dorn more than any Primarch except Lorgar.

      • Sonic tooth

        Yea I’m not mad about dorn either but Russ and lorgar/kurze are the ones I hate the most. I HATE Russ!!

  • phobosftw

    “that grey knight dude… Grandmaster Whatshisface” Epic burn, right there.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Last edition, we call him Grandmaster Hammersmash, because he could swing at initiative with his Thunderhammer.

  • Drpx

    YOU GET A PRIMARCH AND YOU GET A PRIMARCH AND….

    • euansmith

      Welcome to the age of OP Win-free (though that is “free” as in speech, not as in beer).

  • KnightShift

    Somewhere, in a temple sealed for millennia standing amidst bone and ash beneath a roiling red sky, Lorgar stirs…

  • Prospero 4life

    Didnt do much in the Heresy he says. What a joke….

    • How’s he supposed to know? He’d have to read the novels, and that’d mean putting in an effort when it comes to fluff. Can’t have that.

  • Dave Satterthwaite

    Here’s what’s going to happen. No Lion. Build up of narrative culminating in release of Space Wolves codex, with two major shake ups.

    1. Russ returns. Duh.
    2. Due to the decimation of the populace on all SW holdings, the Wolves are forced to broaden their intake of initiates and invest heavily in the Primaris program. That’s right, badass Primaris Valkyries. FEMALE SPACE MARINES.

    The neckbeards all revolt, no one cares, because they are revolting anyway. We all get to play with awesome kickass female viking space marines, the world doesn’t end, GW starts milking that cash cow and brings out a series of ‘Primaris only’ codexes from 2018-19 that contain *thematic* Primaris for all the major chapters, plus more female space marines.

    You saw it here first.

    • Sonic tooth

      I was wondering why should primarines made from Russ seed be anything like space wolves? I mean if they’re not from fenris then would they wouldn’t have that corny space scandi viking stuff? I like the idea of a Russ primaries successor chapter that are completely disciplined and clean cut, noble instead of savage…..no Wolfy wolf stuff. Just good soldiers without the beards and ego

  • Gunther Clone C

    Awful lot of spikes on his armor for a loyalist…

  • frank

    Theres Kinda a fun I spy picture in that pic of The Lion: can you spot the 8 lion heads and 7 crosses?
    Personally I hope they scrap the whole cross thing to make way for more lion heads. How are we suposed to know who he is without more lion heads?

  • Gonfrask
  • Vayle

    I hope “a new character” will be Tu’Shan

  • Master Avoghai

    #1 rule on Bols : never believe a rumour using “an industrial insider” as a source…

  • Orblivion

    Please be Dante, he needs a new model so bad.