40K: The Unbeatable Lists – LVO Edition

muhammad-ali-knock-out

 

Take a look at the two meanest lists in 40K right now. I bet you will be SHOCKED at what they look like!

Goatboy here and somehow I have the mental fortitude or ineptitude based on what you think about me, to write out some thoughts on the two top LVO lists from this past weekend.  If you haven’t been paying attention the top two lists in a tournament filled with Forge World Lords of War and Come the Apocalypse Allies (aka 3 Tyrants++ lists) happened to be have neither of those things.  My good friend, aka 40k Wife, Nick Rose went all the way to the end with a Sentinels of Terra/Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers Strike Force CAD Scout list and tall bearded barbarian Sean Hayden threw down with his no longer shaming Lictor Shame list. Nick had beaten Sean 6-5 earlier in the event and Sean, being the ultimate shame inducing 40k genius, clawed his way back up to meet Nick and take his revenge for the earlier shaming by massed Scouts.

The Lists

Nick “I’m Relevant” Rose aka Darkwynn’s Scouts of Dorn (pdf) ~runner up

Sentinels of Terra CAD

HQ: Lysander

Elites: Centurion Devastators X 3, Grav Amp/Grav Cannon X 3, Omniscope, Missile Launcher on Sergeant

Troops: Scouts X 10 w/Bolters, Combi-Grav on Sergeant

Troops: Scouts X 10 w/Bolters, Combi-Grav on Sergeant

Troops: Scouts X 10 w/Bolters

Heavy: 4 Devastators w/Lascannons, Sergeant

Heavy: 4 Devastators w/Lascannons, Sergeant

Heavy: Thunderfire Cannon

Flesh Tearers Strike Force CAD

HQ: Mephiston

HQ: Librarian, The Vertias Vitae, Auspex, Lvl 2 Psyker, Force Staff – Warlord

Elites: Command Squad, Melta Gun X 3, Drop Pod

Troops: 6 Scouts, Combi-Grav

FA: Drop Pod

FA: Drop Pod

(Nick was under points – issues with program that built the list – most likely would have had a full 10 scouts or some other changes to get a Storm Talon or 2)

 

Sean “Bearded Beastman” Nayden’s Lictor Shame List (pdf) ~Champion!

Tyranids CAD

HQ: Flying Hive Tyrant

Elites: Lictor

Elites: Lictor

Elites: Lictor

Troops: Ripper Swarm X3

Troops: Mucolid Spore Cluster

FA: Spore Mine Cluster X3

FA: Spore Mine Cluster X3

FA: Spore Mine Cluster X3

Imperial Bastion

Leviathan Detachment

HQ: Flying Hive Tyrant

HQ: Flying Hive Tyrant

Tyrant Guard Brood (2)

Elites: Lictor

Elites: Lictor

Elites: Lictor

Troops: Mucolid Spore Cluster

Troops: Mucolid Spore Cluster

Troops: Mucolid Spore Cluster

FA: Spore Mine Cluster X3

FA: Spore Mine Cluster X4

FA: Spore Mine Cluster X4

HS: Mawloc

HS: Mawloc

HS: Mawloc

How they Work?

How the heck do these lists work?  Well – if you remember the chatter when 7th came out the thought was MSU (Multiple Scoring Units) lists would end up getting piloted by good players and taking the top places in most events.  Both of these lists present so many options for an opponent to focus on that it becomes so hard to figure out the correct choices.  This is the key to these lists and while both are good I think you have to really practice with these options to hope to get the success both of these players have with them.  I know Nick played multiple games a week and knew his list backwards and forwards.  Sean has been playing this one for awhile and is just scary to see play as opponents don’t know what to put their attention towards.

I think Nick’s list is helped by people not expected this type of massed objective secured, reserves manipulation, and lack of true “threats” to shove their own deathstars against.  Sean’s list also works the same way as everyone was scared of 4-5 Tyrants but forgot how brutal massed Lictors with Mawlocs could really be. I love the synergy with the Flying Tyrants pushing around and “activated” gone to ground Lictors by pulling them into Synapse.  Heck each Tyrant could throw psychic spells into the Synapse range increase power and quickly turn “scared” lictors into fearless powerhouses.

I am sure you could go on and on how these lists run – but you have to try them out yourself.  I think Nick needed some Anti Air options with Storm Talons etc to help versus the Tyrants the event saw and Seans lists just feels perfect to me.  Unless a new Supplements put out better Tyrants I don’t expect much changes to Sean lists as he continues to be the true Lictor threat to the Imperial Sectors in the tournament scene. Tell us what you think about these lists and how awesome is it that the finals were decided by such basic no frills armies.

 

~What do you think of these current meta-inverting champion lists?

  • Skimask Mohawk

    Remember when a force org restricted things and you had weaknesses in a codex that were actually relevant?

    • squirrel_fish

      When all top tier lists are “broken”, doesn’t it actually play out to who is the better general?

      • SupraGenius

        Especially when the top two armies are full of units that are normally neglected. Sure, that’s a lot of flyrants, but lictors everywhere is a shock. And scouts have always given me a bloody lip, but a list that capitalizes on them? Let’s be fair, these guys know how to play the game and did so to great effect.They counted on their opponents bringing “death star” style units and played that to their favor, and in the end they just played well.

        • 6Cobra

          Exactly. As I was reading these lists my head was ringing with all the strident shouts by the interwebs list yodas: Tyranids SUCK! They have less than zero chance against the top tier armies! Lictors are WORTHLESS GARBAGE that will NEVER SEE A TABLETOP!
          And the best, slightly ironic part?
          Because of the expertise needed to make a lictor-heavy list work like this, the stereotypical WAAC-netlister won’t be able to just press “print” and go clean up at the FLGS with this…

          • JJ

            Who is still yelling Tyrianids suck? I havent heard that since they got the boatload of formations.

          • Skimask Mohawk

            Tyranids ARE underpowered. If you play with the 5th ed style of FOC and one source. If not and you play with multi source formations then it becomes an entirely different story

          • Conrad_Dakarn

            I’ve been running scouts as an army since 4th edition, when they had BS & WS 4 and always loved them. Over the years I developed them into pretty decent fighting force and now have a 1500pt army consisting of 1 force org with 60 foot sloggers and 10 bikes, along with Talon and Hunter, all led by a Chaplain for the fluff.
            Looking at what I’ve got and how I run them, I’m left wondering if the reason I keep winning games with them is because there is nothing to focus on and people take the “it’s scouts, they’re not that good” kind of attitude….thus underestimating until I’m rolling out 60+ attacks as my 20 combat scouts pile into a unit or two.
            I’ve been running scouts as an army since 4th edition, when they had BS & WS 4 and always loved them. Over the years I developed them into pretty decent fighting force and now have a 1500pt army consisting of 1 force org with 60 foot sloggers and 10 bikes, along with Talon and Hunter, all led by a Chaplain for the fluff.
            Looking at what I’ve got and how I run them, I’m left wondering if the reason I keep winning games with them is because there is nothing to focus on and people take the “it’s scouts, they’re not that good” kind of attitude….thus underestimating until I’m rolling out 60+ attacks as my 20 combat scouts pile into a unit or two.
            I rely on three factors….my weight of numbers, everything being able to score and being able to outwit my opponent.

            I suffered heavy losses in my most recent game as a squad of GK termies deep struck in next to 3 squads of my scouts, who were busying kicking in a bike squad (and ready to hit and run next turn)….then he used the 9″ Santic Nova power….Str 5 AP4 ignores cover with 2D6 hits on each enemy unit in range (regardless of being locked in combat)….killed 16 of my scouts in one power use and he threw every dice into it just to make sure.
            By end of turn 7, I had the Talon left with 1 Hull Point and still nearly won because I’d eradicated the units on his objectives and his units weren’t close enough to them to take them back. In the end, he was within 2 and 3/4″ of the objective…securing the win.

            But….that game made me stop and think seriously about trying to refine my list and make it a bit more naughty instead of “fluffy” as I had originally intended.

            Seeing this….seeing that many people scoff at scouts….and knowing how to use mine….I think I might just give it a go.

      • Sometimes. It depends on how many hard counters are present.

        In some games, the two players actually have to play each other and not rely on their lists to carry them.

        In a lot of other games, one list will still have a few more hard counters to the opposition and that handicap will carry them.

        In all of the tournaments I won, it came down to me getting lucky on who I drew and having more hard counters to theirs, nothing about my skill.

    • No. Because tourney guys still worked a way around them. Its all just spamola anyways.

      • Chris Lysander

        i see less spamola at tournies rthan i do in non tournie play

      • Chris Lysander

        i see less spamola at tournies rthan i do in non tournie play

    • petrow84

      Nope, because even back then 90% of the tournament armies were the ones, which could bypass most of these weaknesses. Like, the poster about the 900 Grey Knights, along with 90 Space Wolves out of the 1000 chapters.

    • At a codex level sure. On the tabletop most of the top armies I ever faced had no weaknesses either because it is and always has been about taking the top 10% of a codex and spamming it for the most part.

      • Skimask Mohawk

        there’s spamming in a foc, and then there’s spamming with no limitations. we might as well play unbound for the lack of limits we have now. The top list had 3 hq, 6 elite, 5 troop, 6 fast attack and 3 heavy in 1850…Imagine if guard got a formation that was 3 manticores that got ignores cover now…

    • Secundum Ave

      Yep. Back when things were less dumb and insane. Now you have things like the 2k points 9 C’tan list.

    • Zingbaby

      http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7t8xwpW8gJQ/hqdefault.jpg
      I’m competitive!!

      These are some of the most obnoxious lists I’ve seen in a while, it was only a matter of time before Darkwynn outdid himself.

      • Ultramart

        *closes eyes slowly*

        the leaf has blown full circle.

      • darkwynn

        haha thanks zing 🙂 I wanted to play a list that I enjoyed and was challenging. I loved my black templars and Dorn. whole goal was to try and make something work. I never thought I would get this far. Goal was at least to make it to the top 8.

        Was super happy I made it with this list and nothing crazy. Just a kitchen sink normal marine list.

        • Zingbaby

          Heh “…normal marine list”. I’m not entirely sure, but I think you’re actually serious too(?).

          • Elderpy

            You’ve got no ground to stand on. It’s a freaking scout list, friend. A scout list.

            He made a flexible list and used skill to overcome his obstacles.

            If you’re going to pointlessly troll, try being a little less obvious about it.

          • Zingbaby

            The kettle says what? …the scouts are just filler in that list to get more grav, with centurion grav spam, double minmaxed devs, dual CAD, a melta spam unit etc… then using the Flesh Tearer CAD just to cheese out the force org but with Mephiston, a standard Blood Angels relic and no FT formations or units or even Death Company.

            Next you’ll try to tell me this was his ‘narrative’ list.

          • Elderpy

            Let me get this straight…

            You’re moaning about a couple of combi-gravs, an unsupported THREE grav centurions, some devastators… DEVASTATORS, mind…

            You keep saying spam, but I don’t think it means what you think it means.

            You’ve got a fundamental misunderstanding of how this game works, buddy.

          • Zingbaby

            You’ve got to be kidding me; “how this game works?” …that marine list is 100% WAAC cheese, even if some of the units are not what the Interwebz say are ‘OP’.

            And let me just say, I realize in a post-Goatboy world spam has taken on a whole new meaning but there is plenty of min-max, CAD-bearding, and spam in both these lists.

            Here is my problem with that marine list: The first CAD has NOTHING to do with Imperial Fists but just cherry picks units (for the win); the second CAD has NOTHING to do with Flesh Tearers but just cheeses out the force-org to add more elite units (for the win).

            That whole LVO/Frontline ‘approach’ to 40K has never had anything to do with “how this game works” …it was always hamfisting a square peg into a round hole.

          • Haighus

            “The first CAD has NOTHING to do with Imperial Fists but just cherry picks units”
            You do realise that the Sentinels of Terra have special rules for fielding both Devastators AND Centurions right? and that the Imperial Fists are known for their Siege units right? (and Lysander was the Captain of the 3rd company briefly). Not to mention post-annihilation on Hydra Cordatus the company would be made up almost entirely of scouts.

          • vlad78

            Yet their isn’t a single space marine task force in the whole imperium without at least one tactical squad.

          • Haighus

            But that would be making the assumption that the force fielded above is the entire task force, the Tactical squads could have also been carrying out other missions against the Tyranids in simultaneous battles.
            Also, I’m sure there are plenty of examples of taskforces that don’t have Tactical squads.

          • skyplate

            The Devastator, Scout, Assault, and Veteran companies would like to say hello.

          • darkwynn

            Ding ding we have a winner. Lysander was also a scout Sergent at a time too, in which was the 3rd company.

            Also, the idea and why I wanted to play it was after this type of idea.

            969.M41 – The Invasion of Taladorn. Lysander leads Imperial Fists alongside Ultramarines and Blood Angels against Shon’tu’s Sons of the Forge on Taladorn. Lysander’s recklessness result in the near-total destruction of the 3rd Company and he is censured as a result.[41]

            970.M41 – As part of his censure for Taladorn, Lysander
            is temporarily stripped of the First Captaincy and assigned to 3rd
            Company, which he is ordered to rebuild. As part of this penance,
            Lysander is ordered to undertake the Crusade of Thunder against the Orks. Following the Campaign, Tor Garadon is promoted to 3rd Captain and Lysander returns to First Captain. [41]

            I think Zingbaby just hates me, and anything I do. I mean a unit of centurions is spam to him. Multiple units of scouts is filler and no matter what I say… I am the devil! I just wanted to play a list and play with Dorn and have fun with it. The scouts were not consider filler by any means. there was no cherry picking units either . IT was lets make an imperial fist army and see how far I can get with it. That was it.

            Zing, I hope you have a peaceful life in your armchair. Because it seems like if it isn’t your view… people shouldn’t be enjoying the game the way they want to join the game.

          • ronin_cse

            You won with a list that had lots of scouts, you just took because you wanted to mainly, AND you have a back-story to it? Hats off to you, you certainly deserved to make it that far.

          • Brettila

            As an aside, part of where 40K is going astray IS the growing proliferation of these formations. There needs to be a cost, like in Apocalypse. “OK, so your WHOLE friggin’ Necron army gets 4+ RP if you just take some units you normally take… ” My, my, the penalty… If you had to cough up 150-200 points (or standard 40K equivalent) it might make people make choices.

          • ronin_cse

            But why? The top 8 here includes wildly different lists and honestly there wasn’t a lot of the spam that people have said would ruin the game. Where are the all Knight lists? Where are the 4+ riptide lists? The 4+ Wraithknight lists? The 4+ helldrake lists?

            Seriously this is the healthiest the meta has been in…probably ever. You’d have to be blinded by nostalgia or extremely jaded not to see that.

    • Ultramart

      pepperidge farm remembers.

      • Secundum Ave

        Simpsons reference?

        • Benderisgreat

          There was an actual commercial with an old guy.

          • Secundum Ave

            Oh nice. I’m British, so I didn’t know that.

          • Ultramart

            i know google works in the UK! no excuse for actually asking another human a question on the internet!

          • Benderisgreat

            Family Guy did a spoof of it 15 years after the commercials stopped running, too.

            Pepperidge Farm does make some tasty cookies, though…

    • The best thing about the last five years is the number of new(ish) games that have popped up that still care about things like that. When I want to play a game, I play one of those. When I want to go seal clubbing, I play 40k.

  • Djbz

    I’m sure that Devastator Centurions are a Heavy support choice…..

    • Jamie Garrett

      sentinals of terra allow them to be elite choices.

      • Djbz

        Ah, ok I don’t have access to that book so I didn’t know that

    • Koszka

      In Sentinels of terra they can be taken as elite choices as well. Pretty sneaky way to utilize more HS.

      • Gregory Swanson

        Actually way to not have to use HS

      • ClownBabyROK

        It is sneaky to use a Codex that allows a unit to be taken as an elite choice? You are surprised easily my friend.

        • Koszka

          Hold up. There’s more than one force org now?!

          *head implodes*

  • SacTownBrian

    What was the ruling that was asked for in their match regarding barrage? Seemed a significant issue to Nicks TF Cannon. I don’t think he fired it again after the first round ruling.

    • mathhammer

      that barrage would hit the top floor of the ruins, LVO uses the 6th edition level rules for ruins.

      • K, my curiosity got the best of me here, why? even in real life a barrage could hit almost anywhere on a building..

        • Orodruin

          Yes, in real life. Totally relevant.

          • nice one d..khead

          • Orodruin

            Thanks!

          • Nice to see nitwits take pride in their craft

          • Orodruin

            Thanks!

          • ClownBabyROK

            Thanks!

          • Had to upvote that, made me lol

        • Djbz

          Depends where it lands and explodes.
          If it detonates on the roof of a 5 storey building it is hardly going to hurt a guy on the ground floor

          • LOL kind of off track from what I meant but you are correct, I was just wondering on the ruling is all, doesn’t seem to be game breaking to simply play the way they intended

        • kobalt60

          jet fuel can’t melt steel beams

          • ChubToad

            and topple buildings altogether…

        • Azrell

          WTF? do you have stuff hitting you in the head thats falling from the sky when you sitting inside?

          • lol, wow. yer tinfoil hat must protect you from the SHELL that would plow thru the building genius.

          • PrimoFederalist

            You’re not very familiar with ordnance, are you? “Bunker-busters” are their own thing because most other types of missiles, bombs, ordnance can’t penetrate bunkers. Weapons like 60mm-81mm mortars (standard infantry battalion/regimental assets in U.S. units) would not penetrate a standard roof and even heavier ordnance like 155mm artillery shells that aren’t specifically designed to penetrate bunkers would have trouble penetrating a well-built roof and certainly wouldn’t make it through several stories (like with the GW ruins model).

          • Must be the best shot eva to hit the roof every time eh. Never ever gonna, say, go thru the buildings side window? Artillery shoots up and over in an arc does it not? Which would mean that if it pulked up a bit short it coukd go thru the side.
            Bunker busters are Bombs
            Lots of different shots for arty
            You seem more intent on being right aboot arty so I will just say “yer right. Aboot everything ever. Yer awesome ” and be on my way.

          • Haighus

            The Thunderfire cannon’s tremor round that buries itself and detonates underground could be capable of hitting a unit sheltering in a building, and could chunks of falling masonry also injure units hiding within structures?

          • Azrell

            read the description, they burst in the sky and rain shrapnel down.

      • Matthew Mullen

        That’s unfortunate for him, and I’m not sure I agree with needing to go to the 6th ed rule, but if it was in the player pack, he should have been aware of it.

      • Secundum Ave

        Yet another tournament we can’t look at to see the current state of the game then.

        • state of the game is what you make it, who cares how others play it?

  • DaveWeston

    I can sort of see how the nid list is supposed to work, the only question I have is the Bastion? What’s its function? Particularly without taking a comms relay to help with reserves or a quad gun, just in case 3 flyrants aren’t enough air superiority

    • John Bower

      Hold the rear line objective maybe? Don’t forget buildings are scoring now.

      • Benderisgreat

        They are? How do I not see these things….

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          it makes the Vengeance Weapons Battery one of my favourite things now. Stick one next to a home objective, its almost like having a land raider parked there.

    • mathhammer

      1) The bastion does have a comms relay
      2) the spore mines kept it in check.
      3) he used the heavy bolters.
      4) gives a piece of terrain to hide a tyrant behind.

      • DaveWeston

        Fair enough it just wasn’t down on the list. To be honest I use mine for the ‘bring your own cover to the table’ reason too.

    • thebouv

      Pretty sure that Bastion did have comms relay.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      The bastion did have Comm Relays.

  • mathhammer

    Error:
    In the tyranid brood the hive guard are separate units.

    • John Bower

      1/ they aren’t Hive Guard, they’re Tyrant guard
      2/ they are shown as a separate unit.

      • mathhammer

        yhea i meant tyrant guard
        and the pdf from the army builder shows them as one unit.

        • John Bower

          Ah, okay; haven’t seen the pdf 🙂

  • I’ve been approaching my Dark Eldar army using the same approach (multiple targets with nothing being terribly important) and it’s worked wonders. I’d agree that these lists would be tricksy to win against.

  • ReveredChaplainDrake

    Um… Lictors can’t go to ground. Native Fearless.

    Also, spore clusters aren’t allowed to land on enemy units and explode. Maybe they house ruled that (hooray for them and their common sense), but unit spores that deep strike onto enemy units still Mishap. Only Biovore-fired spores can land *and* explode. Gotta’ love it when sightings of supposedly good Tyranids involve cheating.

    Begin the inane chirping about how Tyranids are so good now. They’re not. You’re just setting a *different* 95% of your $50 codex on fire. Internal balance, do you speak it?

    • Aurion Shidhe

      I believe that Lictors have Fear but not Fearless.

    • Simon Shepherd

      Lictors are not fearless.

      • ChubToad

        Goes to show why he hates the Tyranid Codex so much…

    • Benjamin Tull

      They didn’t land them on units and explode. He would land them next to units and block their movement.

    • Orodruin

      Nice try.

    • TweetleBeetle

      Tyranids are plenty good…when allowed to play by the same rules as everyone else (e.g. CAD manipulation, self ally, etc). Fact is, they have been winning and placing high at big events for six months now. Plus, let’s not forget who is piloting them.

      Player ability trumps codex every time. There’s no crazy disparity between codices anymore.

      • ReveredChaplainDrake

        Have you *seen* Necrons?

        • Secundum Ave

          Yeah…In the hands of a good player they can be disgusting. They basically went “Oh? You don’t like Mindshackle Scarabs? We’ll nerf them, but in exchange buff everything else. OHOHOHO!”

          • Orodruin

            I imagined that as a Jabba the Hutt laugh, to great effect.

          • ReveredChaplainDrake

            Had a game against Necrons and Tau this weekend. I had Blood Angels and was allied with Orks. I was checking over my collection and considering the triple Stormraven formation, but I figured it might be a bit much. After all, I don’t know for sure that the Necron guy is gonna’ be a jerk enough to bring Decurion Wraiths, so I toned it down to a more reasonable strike force. Give him the benefit of the doubt, y’know?

            10 Decurion Wraiths.

            If this is 40k in the real world, I need to dust off my Cryx. Fun is for wimps.

          • deuce1984

            What is a Decurion wraith? If this re. RP – Wraiths do not have RP unless they are with the Harvest formation, in which case you can only have 6 per unit and therefore per formation.

          • ReveredChaplainDrake

            Multiple formations.

          • So multiple units of Spyders and Scarabs plus a Reclamation Legion? How many point you playing? You know you just have to kill the single Spyder for each formation and they lose RP, right?

          • ReveredChaplainDrake

            2000 per person.

            Reanimation was barely relevant anyway. I had my teammate nail one of the Spiders with Loota fire and the second unit willingly wandered out of reanimation range after they killed the only things that could actually threaten them… that is to say every unit I had.

            We were able to take out the Spyders and kite the things out of Reanimation range. Under traditional circumstances, outplaying the opponent like that would’ve given us the edge… but not in the House of Jervis. In the House of Jervis, he who plays the blessed faction wins.

            If it wasn’t for Necrons, those saying that 7th ed was getting progressively fairer might have had a point. You could argue that that’s the most tragic part of all.

          • ClownBabyROK

            You sound like an awesome person to play against.

          • Wait, so why did it matter that the Wraiths were from a Decurion if the RP wasn’t relevant?

          • nurglitch

            Your anus is leaking again.

    • Tim Currey

      I love how you accuse them of cheating, get corrected on the rules and cheats you claim they made and just ignore it

    • ClownBabyROK

      Do you even read Codex: Tyranids BRUH?!

  • Inirlan

    Okay, those are interesting lists with plenty of redundancy, but I don’t have the experience with tournaments(or these Codices) to tell how brutal they’d be.

    That being said, I really want to see the Tyranid List go against a 30K Alpha Legion Army with Alpharius. Reserves only arrive on 6+ and even if they pull that off, half the time it’s still more Alpha Legionnaires that arrive instead.

    • Simon Shepherd

      30k books where written to face other 30k books. Besides, nids werent around back then 😉

      • A Black Knight

        With the exception of certain things like this, there are few real problems with combining 30k and 40k. equally messed up matches can be found when a legion list fights a power list, or more enragingly, when sigismund, kharn, sevetar are brutaly murdered by a no name chapter master with a thunder hammer and shield eternal.

        • Inirlan

          Sigismund is an Eternal Warrior and forces the enemy to reroll invulnerable saves in challenges. Combined with WS7 and rerolling to hit in challenges, I would still bet on him.

          • Haighus

            Plus hitting at S6, S7 on the charge and AP2 at Initiative 5, as well as causing instant death (although ID not being relevant in this case). He can even put a significant dent in a Primarch!

        • Syratogo

          There’s nothing wrong with a named character being killed by an unnamed one – 40k has had named characters dying in games for years, how does it being a fan favourite 30k guy make a difference? Frankly anyone that can kill Sigismund in melee deserves a medal and to earn his own name and saga.

      • Inirlan

        In this case it’s that ‘nid list being really vulnerable to lists that inflict penalties to reserve rolls. The Alpha Legion can pull off a very, very steep penalty.

        • Spacefrisian

          Or get intercept (and skyfire) and have fun killing all those reserves.
          Seems that Tau might actually have a field day against these reserve heavy list.

      • Benderisgreat

        Sounds like someone isn’t Forging the Narrative! Tsk tsk!

        • Inirlan

          Want me to tell you about the time I played a game where two mechanicum(my 30k one and one count as inquisition) teamed up with a tyranids, a tau and an ork player(with a looted wagon converted from a Tau hammerhead) against two daemon and necron players with a dark eldar player in tow?

          Forge a narrative with THAT! ;p

          • generalchaos34

            Thats easy. The Mechanicum and the Xenos Inquisition are working on digging up some Xenos artifacts when they disturb the Necrons. Meanwhile some Tau are trying to utilize captured Tyranids as weapons against some local test Orks, when they see a greater threat and funnel the Orks and the Tyranids to try to slow them down. This bloodshed combined with an erratic Weirdboy opens the warp to spill forth demons. The Dark Eldar, as always, see this as an opportunity to see some unique slaves getting captured and spill forth, ignoring the demons and necrons since they have no souls to devour.

          • Benderisgreat

            hahaaaaa

      • Djbz

        Actually there is a mention somewhere of one of the Great Crusade armies fighting a species that was later identified as Tyranids by the inquisition.

        Plus stuff can get lost in the warp for centuries…

        • Inirlan

          Well, I learned something today! Thanks!

        • Syratogo

          I’d love to see the source on that!

          • Djbz

            Unfortunately I can’t remember where exactly I read it

    • MVBrandt

      In addition to what Simon said, that sounds like a really unpleasant game for the Tyranid player. “Yay I lose, want to go get a beer?”

      • Inirlan

        Or – he could only put into reserve what he is forced to put into reserve.
        Also, I have trouble mustering sympathy for broken lists getting bent over a rail.

        • Eyjio

          Yeah, those damn lictors and spore mines are just super OP, unlike the Lynxs, Knights, Heirodules and serpent spams. Those are totally okay.

          I mean, are we looking at the same lists? Scout spam? Lictors+mines+mawlocs? Why be so bitter? These are the least “broken” lists I’ve seen since 5th ed.

          • Orodruin

            Some people can’t help themselves.

          • Inirlan

            “Bitter”. Well, that’s not what I’d use to describe my emotional state. Enjoying a nice feeling of Schadenfreude? Definitely.

            Honestly, I dealt with exactly one netlist in the last 3-4 years, so I haven’t gotten the experience to feel bitter about broken lists.

            Okay, there is this one dude I fought against someone fielding two bloodthirsters at 750 points, but he’s a nice guy who is more into the hobby for painting than playing.

    • A Black Knight

      Thats only if you have the exact same unit in your possession. while i wouldn’t put it past them to have some pet tyranids, odds are your not going to have them in your list.

      • Inirlan

        Huh, you’re right. In my defence, I play Mechanicum, not Alpha Legion.

    • Matt

      Yeah?! Well I want to see him play Warmachine with all their MAT 7 stuff and P+S 10+. You want to see him play units from another game? Brilliant.

      • Inirlan

        Except that not only do FW’s Horus Heres army lists use the 40k ruleset, but that it’s been explicitly written into the fourth book that the 30k Army Lists can be used against 40k armies, either by fielding 40k codices in an Age of Darkness Battle(Orks for instance are a very good candidate) or fielding a 30k army in a normal 40k game.

        And if you really want to see Tyranids face off against a Warmachine army… Well you’ll have to settle for Battle-Automata(the RT-era Imperial Robots)-heavy mechanicus lists, which are noted as being as close to a Warmachine army as you currently get in 40k.

  • TweetleBeetle

    When Tyranids are finally permitted to do what everyone else can do – ally with themselves – they win big events. That’s two this year already. When the terrible FO restrictions went away, normally perceived “bad” units (per the math hammer nuts), are suddenly amazing in the hands of a good general. Tactics trump all.

    • ken

      cad fiddling and self allying are terrible.

      • Benderisgreat

        Both of those sound like horrible things people do at night in front of their computer.

        • Orodruin

          Don’t knock it ’til you try it.

          • Commissar Molotov

            What happens in the computer room stays in the computer room.

      • Tim Currey

        It’s not self allying, it’s just using 2 force orgs. Nothing wrong with that. After all it still means they have to take 1hq and 2 troops in each

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          It doesn’t hurt that your HQ can be a Flyrant!

    • Anggul

      Eh, Lictors and Mawlocs are bad when they aren’t used together. You would never just take a brood of Lictors. It’s having loads and loads of single Lictors to take advantage of squad-based firing game mechanics and drop Mawlocs on people that makes them good in this list.

      The guy did well with them and that’s cool, but having one good list type to play a part in doesn’t make a unit good overall.

  • Funny how last week there was a discussion on how eldar were the god codex and that bringing up how tyranids won a UK event didn’t count because it was “only that one time” and a few days later the tyranids win the LVO.

    Maybe now the discussion on how tyranids are helpless can finally die.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      The Tyranid player defeated an Eldar army to get into the final match.

    • ChubToad

      Wait! Now people will whine about how broken Tyranids are, when they can ally with themselves! There is still so much whining to do on the internet…

    • Brettila

      ‘Angelic choir’ – “All – le -lu -yah!”

    • Anggul

      I don’t think anyone has said Tyranids were helpless since 5th edition.

      The constant since then has been that the Tyranid codex is bad, and that’s still true. Being able to win with a select few units doesn’t make it a good codex. This was a cool, clever list, and we all know how powerful flyrants are, but that doesn’t make the many poorly written units suddenly good, any more than the strength of Wave Serpents makes Howling Banshees good and so on.

      It isn’t about winning tournaments with the good units, it’s about being able to make good, fun lists with a wide range of choice, and that isn’t something you can do.

      • The exact conversation im referencing from last week was exactly about tyranids and their inability to win tournaments and how the eldar codex could not be beaten in tournaments.

        A not too uncommon conversation. Not as common as say last year but tournament tyranids and cant win come up enough.

  • Orodruin

    I loved watching those games via live stream. Very fun stuff. It would definitely require some insane resources but I wish every battle that took place was recorded with multiple cameras and commentary. Totally elevated the experience, so cheers for that.

    As for the lists, I love seeing the top lists and players facing off. I didn’t see any ridiculous rules lawyering or similar nonsense going on when things weren’t going perfectly for either player.

    As for the petulant whiners who hate tournaments but feel compelled to spend their time reading and commenting about them, I offer you a friendly pat on the shoulder in hopes that you stop being such miserable people.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      It was a lot of fun to watch.

  • Matthew Mullen

    I love seeing the fearless manipulation coming in to play. This was something I did with my Avatar fairly consistently when I played FootDar lists when the newest Eldar book dropped. Nothing like going to ground with 20 Shrouded, Fortuned Guardians and then popping back up after taking no casualties and hammering a whole unit apart in return.

    Also, Lascannon Devs….

    • ChubToad

      Lascannon Devs.. you got that right Sir.

    • Haighus

      Tbf, IF Devs get Tank Hunters, so it makes sense to have lascannons if you run IF Devs.

    • Haighus

      Tbf, IF Devs get Tank Hunters, so it makes sense to have lascannons if you run IF Devs.

  • Benderisgreat

    There’s something wrong with Tyranids being able to buy Imperial bastions. You’d think GW would’ve seized on the model chance to make them their own “hive cluster” or something.

    • Orodruin

      Dwez on dakkadakka made this awesome thing a while back:

      http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-viewimage.jsp?i=525639

      • deuce1984

        Or it has been overrun by the Nid menace… a little imagination goes a long way when playing with toy soldiers

        • generalchaos34

          think star craft and infested Terrans if you need some help, Theres a lot of potential if you know how to work the Green Stuff and/or Milliput

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Only a minority of players play Tyranids.

      Only a minority of those players want to buy fortifications.

      Only a minority of those players would specifically buy a Tyranid Bastion (since it would be of little use in other lists), especially if it the Nid Bastion did not come with different rules.

      • Benderisgreat

        Where I’m going with this is that they should have a Nid Bastion with Nid rules, you dig?

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          I am jive to what you are preaching.

  • Sure

    Lol, somebody may have lost b/c he doesn’t do arithmetic! Way to go, Chief!

    • Secundum Ave

      Which is why you should never use a program to make lists, Pen, paper, a calculator, and the Codex in front of you works fine. Or just use Microsoft word over paper.

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        Pen and Paper can lead to unintentional errors as well.

        This is why you make a list and double check using a different system.

        • Brettila

          Or, you know, add it up more than once…

        • Secundum Ave

          That’s just human error, and if you double-check it, you’ll be fine.

    • darkwynn

      better be under then over 🙂 and getting to second still makes me happy if I was points under.

      • Sure

        You’re absolutely right, and the fact you made the finals despite the mistake says a lot about how well you play the game. But I’d bet you won’t ever go to another tournament without 1st breaking out the pencil, paper, and calculator.

        • darkwynn

          nah probably won’t even bother with it. Honestly didn’t care too much, I played the list as a challenge so what is another one if it happens 🙂

  • benn grimm

    Really like the marine list; dev’s with lascannons ftw; haven’t seen them in years. Three flyrants and three mawlocs is kinda cheesy, but fairplay and congrats on the win, sounds like it was a fun weekend! 🙂

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      It is hardly cheesy considering how limited Tyranid choices are compared to the Imperials.

  • Leviticus Stroud

    Hmm, I’d be interested in facing those lists…

  • highwind

    Flesh Tearers CAD is illegal with only one troop unit…

    Besides that, the list isn’t even good… grav cents in a drop pod need tigurius (or Sevrin Loth), missile launchers on them are wasted points, devastors are too static for current meta and spamming scouts is just inferior to spamming tactical squads in drop pods.
    That list will lose vs most current meta lists, especially the omni present eldar wave serpent spam

    • Ronin

      Flesh tearers detachment only require 1 HQ, 1 troop, and 1 Fast Attack. Also, he placed 2nd out of hundreds of players including those that brought eldar wave serpent spam so…

      • highwind

        It reads combined arms detachment up there, not flesh teares strike force detachment!

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      And yet he came in second place at a major tournament with his “inferior” list while you were sitting on your butt not coming in second place.

      • highwind

        Second place on a US. tournament is like winning a random game in the local store for european 40k players

        • Commissar Molotov

          *dies laughing*

    • darkwynn

      That is funny, I beat two eldar players with serpents and even one with a lynx. Serpents and wraith knights are super easy to kill with this list. If you ever want to play, I would be more then happy too.

      • John Burns

        if your ever in northern california id be honored to play against you with my nid swarm.

    • ClownBabyROK

      What was your record at the LVO? Also please read the Flesh Tearers Detachment rules in between congratulating yourself.

      • highwind

        lean the difference between CAD (=combined arms detachment, from the rule book) and codec specific detachments like Baal strike force or flesh teares strike force…
        In the article it clearly reads “CAD” which means 1HQ and 2Troops compulsory!

        I am not from the states so I have never been to LVO… But winning there cannot be to hard if attenders cannot even read/write the correct rules (like names for specific detachments or the difference between scoring and objective secured like in one of the last articles,,,)

        • It said Flesh Tearers Strike Force on his list and was just transcribed wrong on this website.
          So what was your record at the last 256+ player event you played in?
          (eh, why am I bothering)

    • Elderpy

      Is it physically painful to be this ignorant?

      • Brettila

        If only it were…

  • Malthrak

    What’s meta-inverting about a Cent-star or a grip of Flyrants?

    Also, lets remember the LVO has it’s own house rules and restrictions as well as unique missions, and is not necessarily a good reflection of the larger metagame.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      The fact that they are using 36 scouts, 6 Lictors and a bunch of spores?

      • Malthrak

        They changed up the frills, but there’s hardly anything meta-inverting about it. Ultimately, they’re still built around proven and common copy-paste tournament staples.

    • darkwynn

      I didn’t know having three cents by themselves was called a star… usually you know a centstar is say Tigerious or Draigo, loth and a Grey knight libby. Mine was well just a unit…

      • Orodruin

        Haters gonna hate, as they say.

  • Red_Five_Standing_By

    It is so funny to read people’s comments saying the two lists are terrible and no one could possibly with with Scouts or Tyranids.

  • Bugsculptor

    What I really don’t get is why this list takes spore mine clusters instead of more mucolids.

    Mucolids can charge flyers, have higher strength and AP off the bat and have shrouded so are much harder to kill. One bolter wound will detonate a spore cluster. Otherwise the units are identical. What gives?

    Both units mishap when they deep strike, so it’s not like the smaller spores do more hits when they charge.

    Is it just that you have to buy a $50 tyrannocyte to get the mucolid model and Sean had loads of spore mines to hand?

    • I think it has to do with the fact that Mucolids are a single model whereas Spore Mines are a unit so have a larger footprint (and he used them to get in the way)

  • Jordan Cafolla

    Ah, look at all the things sisters don’t have answers to

    • j0shh

      Preach it brother.

    • Brettila

      Well, if you’d start buying a wider variety of units in your… oh, wait, never mind.

  • Kazzigum

    Well, assuming these are presented correctly, the marine list is illegal. The rules of the LVO clearly stated that you could only play 1 CAD. Soooo….

    • ClownBabyROK

      Blood Angels were the Flesh Tearers Detachment.

      • Kazzigum

        Yep, you’re right I looked it up. But … the Chaos guy WAS apparently running double CAD. I find is disappointing that such basic mistakes were allowed into the tournament. It taints the whole proceedings.

  • An_Enemy

    Tau and Eldar are so broken…

  • Snord

    These are lists, but they’re not armies. Three Hive Tyrants but no real Troops? It’s a debate that’s totally stale, but there’s no kudos in winning the game when you throw this kind of crap together.

    • So the Nids list isn’t an army because of the Troops… then what could be your dismissal of the other (which is almost all Scouts)

  • Chad Woodward

    Shouldn’t Nicks CAD for fleshtearers have two troops choices?

    • John Burns

      its the same guy

  • D W Hawthorne

    So either Eldar aren’t nearly as bad as people say, or Tyranids need to be nerfed hard and fast because they’re breaking the game.

  • MarcoT

    How does the first list handle flying circus? I don’t see how this list will perform against anything airborn.

    And I hope grav will lose salvo next edition, just giving a flat 2 shots.

  • Oh look, two lists that have both hit on a single idea and spammed it as hard as possible.

    Just like every other 40k tournament list in the history of ever.

    Why do people think this is fun? Serious question; I don’t understand how playing such a spammy list is entertaining in the least.

    • John Burns

      yeah! damn t4 4+ saves! so broken! scouts need to be nerfed! lictors too!

      • You appear to have misread me, Sir. I didn’t say the lists were ineffective. Clearly, in the right hands they’re not. I said they were BORING.

        • darkwynn

          How is it boring? It’s a chalenge to play. You literally can’t make one mistake with the army otherwise you lose.

          • Somehow I doubt that’s the case. An army that relies on playing a perfect game, in a game with high randomness, doesn’t usually see the final round of a big competitive event. Two of them happening to end up in the finals quickly passes into the realm of wildly improbable.

        • So how would swapping a couple of Scout units for Tacticals make it more interesting?

  • deuce1984

    I am happy about darkwynn’s list. I mean tat really is a battleforce list. well done!