Goatboy 40k: The Sound of My Wallet Weeping

poortax

Goatboy here and boy – Tzeentch has decreed the we’re all going to be broke this December. Let’s talk new Thousand Sons.

Goatboy here again and as I was about to come up with something new for my Monday thoughts – the accidental release gods have shined down upon me.  The Thousand Sons are officially here with pics galore.  Of course – as it is a Chaos release my cruel heart beats anew as the thought of some kind of psychic monstrosity is going to come to bear.  The pics didn’t have any rules – but maybe I can guess a few things based on the models present.  With that – lets bring out my crystal ball, pop open a nice beer, and see if my fiendish mind actually guesses some of the rules.

Tzaangors & Rubrics

First off – let’s get to what looks like the troop section.  The Thousand Son marines as well as the Tzaangors from the Silver tower both look like the default troop options for the Thousand Sons.  First of all – I actually spelled their name correctly.  Amazingly enough – or it just means I am now conditioned to spell things in the Chaos/Daemon/Warhammer way.  Either way – let’s break down what I see here.

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First of all – they look to have Las Pistols and some kind of Close Combat Chainsword.  Knowing how the Chaos Space Marines work – this makes me think they are just a reworked cultist option for the army.  They might end up being fearless or generate whatever extra special rule the Tzeentch guys get.  I don’t see any special weapons shown as well so just except them to be cheap and most likely take up that ever special troop slot no one cares about.  I don’t even see a Special weapon shown so they are hopefully a cheap box to buy.  We might get lucky and let them be Daemons too – so they are fearless, 5+ inv save, and let Grey Knights reroll 1’s against them.  Hopefully all still for just 50 points 🙂 since everything has gotten better and stayed the same price lately (Genestealers in the Cult).

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Next up we have the Thousand Sons themselves.  First – they look pretty dang awesome.  I love the Chosen design influences in they leg work and how they just really look like the true evolution in how a Chaos Space Marine should look.  So bravo GW in making a replacement model that will make older players really think about swapping over to massed plastic armies.  Second – it looks like we finally have some options for this army too.  Looking at the picture I see 2 new weapons in the Flamer option (Warpflame? – old school always does x on a 4+ maybe? Mutation? Disco lights?) and of course the big gatling barrel.  I bet the Gatling gun is some sort of assault cannon that has flaming ammunition.  Or maybe it is a better “reaper” auto cannon.  Either way it is something they are probably going to push and I do hope it is unique, different, and good.  The flamer option is another interesting one in that if the Thousand Sons stay Slow and Purposeful it means it just isn’t nearly as good as it should be.  Of course if it does insane damage or something else we can talk.  Finally we have a nice Sorcerer upgrade as well with the add ons of a really sweet scarf to keep their neck/soul warm during the long chaos winter nights.  Overall this kit looks rad – it is finally a 10 model box and looks to jump start the desire to have a sorcerer supreme army.

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Exalted Sorcerors

After that I am guessing we have some Elite choices.  I do hope the Exalted Sorcerers are some kind of Elite choice as I feel it is an under utilized force org option that is either looked at as a tax or some place to stash all those damned Terminators they keep producing.  Will see how they work on the table top as I am guessing they will be designed with 8th in mind.  They might not “cast” spells per se and instead just do X things on a set of dice rolls.  If that is the case then welcome to the new “psychic” phase for 40k.  If they get a set of spells though then most likely will still be doing some kind of casting system based on Warp Charge Levels, dice, and making your opponent mad.  I hope each one gets a chance to ride a disc as it feels like something that would be a good set up for the group.  Heck they might be two options in the kit with everyone have discs and they become a Fast Attack option.  I have high hopes for this unit as it has all the makings of a cornerstone unit for the army.

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Scarab Occult Terminators

Finally we have the often rumored Rubric Terminators.  Look I love Terminators but man do they really just suck.  I don’t know how to fix them beyond completely changing the way armies get to shoot and deal damage.  2+ saves are great – but we all know math wrecks just about anything in this game so investing some points in a 5 man unit of Slow Pokes just doesn’t always work.  Still the models look really rad.  The leader looks like a Spell Caster too – so the thought that every unit generates some kind of psychic ability is something that feels to obvious to not be true.  Weapons wise expect everyone to have Soul Blaze and maybe they will have a chain reaction thing to utilize force from the leader or somehow add force to a shooting profile.  I know that is a Grey Knight thing but it really feels like it can be used here and make for a really bad ass unit choice.  Heck I am sure all of these guys will have a 4+ invulnerable save too so maybe they will be good?

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Ahriman & Magnus

Finally we have the 2 HQ choices shown.  We get a reworked Ahriman and the already seen Magnus.  Will go with the new release first in the insanely rad looking Ahriman.  Holy cow did they amp up the old model, add in some amazing flair, and just set the cool factor to 120%.  I love how it is a tweak on the old model just like the reworked Kharn was.  I don’t know what else to say – but man it will suck if his rules just stay the same.  Well maybe not if the idea of their own Psychic chart is true and we get a monster HQ choice that gets all the spells, can cast Witchfires 4 times, and has a bad ass staff to slap the silly out of you.  We also have Magnus – which I’ve talked about before so no need to rehash again.

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What Else?

Right now this release looks pretty rad and I suspect the Fast Attack options to be filled out with Rhinos, Warp Talons, Raptors, and Bikes.  I don’t know if we see Chaos Spawn in there as well as Ahriman did the spell to try and stop the crazy Mutation.  I am sure their will be Heldrake or two as GW always likes selling kits that make me cry inside when I think about painting them.  From there we always have some Dreadnoughts and maybe some Havocs.  Here is hoping we see actual point updates for the units or at the very least a thought on making them better for their inflated cost profile.  Beyond that we should get some sweet relics, a bad ass 7 spell chart, and maybe a reason to field Chaos Space Marines on the table top.

Who would have thought I would be excited about Thanksgiving weekend for more then stuffing myself with turkey, stuffing, pie, and other delicious options.  It is one of my favorite holidays due to the fact you don’t have to buy nothing for no one, get to eat a ton of awesome food, and now get to think about how the Thousand Sons are gonna bop those piddling Space Puppies in their poor widdle noses.

~ All Is Dust

  • Norsed

    Cool, I’ve not seen beast men in 40k since rogue trader.

    • Deacon Ix

      , I .

    • E65

      I bought some plastic beastmen to convert into Khorne cultists.

  • sniperjack

    Terminators need a 2nd LP. Optional a T:5 and/or 4 Inv. Imo without point increase.

    • KassIas

      They will be mark of Tzeentch so they should have a 4+ invulnerable but he slightly more expensive than normal, stock terminators. They seem to be wearing tartarus terminator armour so they may be able to perform sweeping advance but if they are still following the slow and purposeful route it makes it pointless.

    • wibbling

      A 45 or a 78?

      • euansmith

        LPs were 33 1/3rd; EPs could be 45.

  • Latro_the_Zombie

    I have this strange feeling TS’s rules are gonna have a lot of manoeuvrability outside of transports

  • Wonderdog

    The problem with Terminators (and other expensive 2+ save models) in 40k is their inconsistent survival. They need something to give them some built in “bad luck protection” against massed bolter fire and such like – e.g. a free armour save reroll against hits of less than STR 6 or something to improve their consistency against small arms.

    • MarcoT

      Why? The opponent also doesn’t get ‘excessive luck protection’. That’s part of the fun. It sucks if 5 die due to a bad roll, but I’ve seen those same 5 survive a lot of AP2 shots just because they kept making their invunerable.

      • Wonderdog

        Why? Well, its because terminators are poor for their points cost due to terrible consistency against the prevalence of massed small arms fire on the battlefield (the thing they are designed to be best protected against) – and hence don’t live up to their points investment and don’t see the kind of play they otherwise would?

        For every time I’ve seen terminators make a lucky succession of 5+ invulnerables against a bunch of lascannons, I’ve seen ten times as many units gutted by a load of lucky bolter fire.

        Terminators are a weak choice – they are too risky an investment at present, and their mathematical susceptibility point for point against small arms needs fixing to give them back their purpose as heavy line breakers.

        • Karru

          So you basically want to make Terminators invincible? It’s already bad enough that we have things like Toughness 8 Monstrous Creatures, Heavy Tanks and Super Heavies/Gargantuans running around on mass. My 40+ Guardsmen shoot at your Terminators and see them fall? Good. That means that my “few” easily killable units like Heavy Weapon Teams can actually focus firing on something else, like an Imperial Knight.

          5 Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield would almost never fall once you drop them right next to the enemy. Unless of course they drop EVERYTHING in their army on them. Yeah, sound pretty balanced that I would have to shoot 1500+pts worth of stuff at 250pts worth of Terminators. Ignore them? Not an option. Those 5 Terminators will destroy almost any unit they come into contact with.

          I use Terminators a lot. I have 26 of the buggers painted and 20 more still in the works with plans to add even more. As long as the opponent isn’t running mass Grav, they have worked fine for me. At most, in terms of survivability increase, they should have 2 wounds.

          • ZeeLobby

            I could see two wounds. Or maybe even a very slight point reduction. Really it’s the addition of spammable special weapons which has made them somewhat useless. When everyone can take a gravgun or meltagun it just means the chances of terminators contributing is very low.

          • Karru

            Yeah, Terminators aren’t exactly the most useless unit in the game, but with the amount of high strength low ap weapons in the game, they are indeed not the best choice due to their price.

        • Wonderdog

          I imagine its all a moot point. Either GW will change it in 8th, or they wont, nothing we bang on about in the comments section on BOLS will have any impact on that 🙂

          I’d like to see terminators more consistently resistant to small arms fire – I’m not fussed about how they achieve that.

          • LordRao

            The main problem with Terminators has been for years that they are too expensive for their survivablity. Simple math says they should stand up to twice as many AP4 or higher shots than Power Armour, and thus cost twice as much as a normal Marine. They are, obviously, significantly more expensive. This is due to added bonuses such as a 5++ and (probably) the ability to carry heavy weapons, but both bonuses are of limited use in most cases, so they shouldn’t raise the cost by too much.

            So, the balance was always somewhat lacking, and it has only been upset further by the current prevalence of AP2 or AP1 guns.

            Finding the sweet spot is really tricky imho.

            Simply tacking on another Wound may do it, but it would have to make Termies much more expensive than they are – the clearest reference are the Grey Knight Paladins, which cost around 50pts each. And I’m not sure at all whether they are (still) worth it.

      • sjap98

        Just a second wound would be fine.

        • Karru

          That is really the only realistic option I see for them to increase their durability. Would also make Terminator Captains a viable choice. Why would you ever take a Terminator Armour over Artificer is beyond me.

          • euansmith

            In the fluff, because of the option to teleport in to your target. On the table top? Erm… I dunno.

    • Earth127

      I don’t think bad luck protection is the way to go, But I do think termies need a buff to survivability;Not sure what tough

    • Deacon Ix

      How about making it 3+ on 2D6, and a modifier to the roll depending upon the power of the weapon being used

      • Defenestratus

        Blasphemy!! We can’t go back to the way things worked in 2nd edition! That was faaar too much fun.

        • Deacon Ix

          I once killed a termie in 2nd with a squad of 40 gretchin, wich I thougt was lucky at the time. So I did the math, 2nd Ed: chance of wounding 1/3 (S3 vs T4) chance of failing save 1/36, for a 1 in 108 chance of killing a termie with a gretchin.
          Current: 1/3 chance of wounding, 1/6 chance of failing save for a 1 in 18 chance of killing a termie.

          Conclusion: I was really lucky back on 2nd and termies are w#$k in 7th.

        • SYSTem050

          I never liked the modified save approach of 2nd ed. The change to all or nothing I think was for the better. In my opinion the current issue is the plentiful of no catch ap2. Used to be it was primarily unwieldy assault weapons, gets hot ranged or prohibitively expensive. These days it seems your average trooper is wondering about with an ap2 weapon

    • E65

      Lets see what they do with the AP rule in 8th. modding that is a far easier option than effing about changing unit rules/stats.

    • Sz

      I agree with you on this one– it was easier to price terminators way back in 2nd because they rolled armor 2+ saves on a 2D6, but there were armor-save modifiers back then. Terms just laughed at small-arms fire. Of course, that system was clunkier, and got regular SM’s murdered at a ridiculous pace, so that (like most of 2nd edition) was far from perfect.

      As much as I hate multiple wounds on squad-based troops (so inelegant,) that might be the best way to go to make them worth the investment.

    • Keith Wilson

      bring back 3+ on 2d6 modified by str of weapon ….. ie 2nd ed. Lascannon was -9 so you would need boxcars but it was possible

  • KassIas

    Won’t Magnus be a Lord of War rather than a HQ? It seems more fitting for someone like him since most chapter masters are Lords right now and all the heresy era primarchs are also Lords of War.

    • wibbling

      I’d imagine so, makes sense to make him a gargantuan creature thus he’s going to be really special.

    • Karru

      He is definitely going to be a Lord of War. Considering that Marneus Calgar is a LoW, it would make me question the mental health of the design team over at GW if they made Maguns a HQ choice instead.

      • ZeeLobby

        I just hope we get some generic HQ choices and it isn’t just Ahriman.

        • Karru

          Most likely a Sorcerer or even a Sorcerer Lord which I hope dearly to become true.

      • euansmith

        I’m expecting Magnus to be a troop choice, available in units of up to 10.

  • ZeeLobby

    Spam does cost money!

  • Ross Allan

    Got a gut feeling those gatling looking dakka guns are gonna have Pinning.

    • Nyyppä

      And s2. No poison or flesh bane. ^^

    • Keith Wilson

      im guessing rotor canon stats from 30k with ap3 inferno bolts

  • Ross Allan

    In case anyone wants to know….Rubricae, £30 for 10. Scarab Occult £35, Magnus £80.

    • Wonderdog

      Rubrics and terminators are both a fiver more expensive than I’d hoped…

      Any info on the cannon fodder?

      • Lily Chen

        Tzaanagors : £27.5 for a pack of 10.

    • Tshiva keln

      Did you notice you are mentioned in the new WD? P26 from when you asked for scenery articles on Facebook.

  • euansmith

    “Rad”? Cowabunga, dude, to the max!

    I guess it is partly the way that his robe has been given that extreme (to the max) edge highlight; but it looks like Ahriman has got his hem caught up in the arcane machinery of his flying disc and is been slowly dragged in to it.

    • nurglitch

      Discs of Tzeentch aren’t machines.

      • euansmith

        In that case, I don’t want to think what he’s got his hem stuck in then.

        • Commissar Molotov

          Discs are like puppies – they chew on EVERYTHING.

  • Kaylum Dicks

    I don’t see why we wouldn’t see Heldrakes in the list, as the flame cannon option basically makes them Doom Wings, give it a dedication to Tzeentch and it is a Doom Wing.

  • Defenestratus

    There’s no Eldar in this release so I don’t see how wallets will be emptied.

  • Graham Bartram

    Only the Machine-God is worthy of my dedication. My wallet is sealed against the taint of chaos.

    • Commissar Molotov

      I bet Chaos has a crazy-looking ‘taint.

      • Graham Bartram

        …and that’s how chaos gets you. Best you go into the corner of the room and flail yourself whilst saying “Machine God forgive me for I am but weak flesh”. ….and don’t go looking at such things again or you will damn your wallet with chaos. Praise the machine. XD