40K Rumors: 8th Edition Ruleset Splits

Bols-Rumors-avatar

Come get the latest from the rumormongers on what the new edition will hold:

This one comes from longtime rumormonger: Mikhael on 1-30-2017

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Regarding 40k’s New 8th Edition belived to be on the way in Q2:

  • The new edition will have two separate rulesets.
  • 40K: Primary game will have a new set of streamlined rules.
  • 30K: Heresy era ruleset will be seperate and more complex.

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Thoughts

First of all, this is a bit of a shock and unlike anything we have ever seen before out of GW (if true). On the other hand over the last few years we have seen Forge World carve out a vibrant (and profitable) and extensive set of 30K books and models with their own distinct set of rules and style of play.

It is possible that GW sees the main game as their primary breadbasket and want to see it “reset” with a much streamlined style of play to make it easier for new players to get onboard. The main game is a bit bloated right now and desperately needs a trim. Under this concept, all the previous rumors of lifting some concepts from Age of Sigmar make sense.

The more complex ruleset for 30K to me sounds like they may may just tweak the existing 7th Edition rules to make them 30K specific, so Forge World need not update all their existing gorgeous (and pricy) Horus Heresy books.

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If this turns out to be true we are looking at basically a three-tier system for GW:

  • Age of Sigmar: Introductory wargame
  • Warhammer 40,000: Mass-market wargame
  • Horus Heresy: Advanced level wargame

Note how the prices for rules and minis also go up at each step while the potential playerbase goes down.

~What do you think of the rumor?

 

 

  • Ira Clements

    Sounds like a confusing mess. Probably true.

    • Muninwing

      really.

      i wonder if the main market will just use armies for 40k and the 30k ruleset…

      • Prof. Voland

        i think not. do you use mantic models for age of sigmar?

        • Muninwing

          irrelevant.

          firstoff, yes some people do.

          second, we’re talking about rulesets, not models. people like rulesets to change as little as possible except to improve. not everyone thinks gutting the rules makes them better, which is why i don’t actually play AoS. thus, why not use the better (non-sigmarized) ruleset instead of the inferior one designed for younger players?

          it might take a bit to adapt xenos into the 30k rules, but unless changing 40k to its sanitized candyland version is really just a needed streamlining (and not a sigmarizing), don’t expect all players to be on board.

    • carlisimo

      I don’t think it’ll be confusing. They’re simply keeping a “legacy” ruleset around for Horus Heresy, probably with a few tweaks based on how that meta has evolved. It will be a separate game. But they do have to put those rules in a new book, because right now HH players have to buy the 7th ed. 40k rulebook and it will presumably be pulled off the market.

      imo, it’d be better to keep them in a separate book, but it’s not the end of the world.

    • Prof. Voland

      why? from ux- and game design perspektive it’s the best decision they can make.

      / kids can get used to the rules and the system by aos. (easy/casual mode)
      / 40k is a bit more complex for ppl. who just want to have it a bit more complex (medium mode)
      / horus heresy – pro game (most of competetive players went to hh either)

      • Muninwing

        except 40k is their biggest seller, and is currently the most complex (down from WHF). so the social nerf coming to that will lose them players.

  • Michael Goldsberry

    How’s it confusing?

    “I want to play Warhammer 40k, but not sure if I’d like it”

    “Play 40k”

    “Okay, now I like playing, and I’ve very good, and wouldn’t mind playing something that’s more complicated”

    “Play Horus Heresy, which you can likely play with the same models you have for 40k, just maybe with specific paint jobs.

    • Ray Lairmore

      “well i liked playing tau.”

      • Michael Goldsberry

        Okay, then you’re stuck playing regular 40k, and not Horus Heresy.

        • Ray Lairmore

          “Okay, now I like playing, and I’ve very good, and wouldn’t mind playing something that’s more complicated”

          • Michael Goldsberry

            Then you use one of the Horus Heresy armies.

            Same as how people have to abandon armies when codex changes make them not good competitively and the like.

          • Ray Lairmore

            no not the same. I can still play old codexs even if there not as good.

          • The Basement Gamer

            Nobody is coming to your house to take your 7th ed stuff.

          • Emprah

            Screaming Peta maniacs might so be ready to use your pulse rifle.

          • Muninwing

            no, but try finding a game when you want to play a nonstandard or old ruleset. not always possible.

            remember, this isn’t a video game that you can play on your own. you need a partner. so you cannot always find a partner to play a variant. meaning that current rules or acceptable variants are always put on priority.

          • ThorOdinson

            That’s not the same at all. Nevermind that most people who play an army don’t abandon it just because the latest iteration of a codex sucks. I know I’ve never done that.

          • Most people? Any statistics on that? Because I’ve seen loads of ppl do abandon them due to rules.

          • treadhead2

            Hold’s hand up as i’ve been playing since the tail end of first edition and currently have five chaos marine armies as well as at least twice as many loyalist ones

          • Drew_Da_Destroya

            My Orks and Dark Eldar armies have been kicking around for a good long while now, enduring Nerf Bats and Buffs as time goes on.

          • stinkoman

            should this be acceptable?

          • Suspect that Tau would work in 30k, just without formations / data sheets vs a 30k army, somehting we are investigating in our local area, of course you couldnt call them Tau due to the age of their race, but its quite easy to imagine they represent one of the races encountered during the great crusade.

          • stinkoman

            i guess if you can work around this and accept that a gaming company can invalidate your entire collection and force you to “count as”, than you’re a better person than me. or accept that they radically change the game to “streamline” it. personally, my group has talked about it and we are going to hang onto the 7ed rules (even for 30k for consistency) if this turns out to be 8th. contrary to everyone else, i like the complexity and depth i get when building a list. i don’t netlist and my group plays casually and our games are fun and make sense fluff wise.

          • Matt Razincka

            You mean like they did to Undead? And then Blood Knights (VC theme army)? Also, to MULTIPLE vehicle load outs from 40K 2nd ed. And units. Its not exactly unheard of.

          • stinkoman

            If that’s what they did, than that’s what i mean (what does that even mean?).

            I thought Undead became VC, and BKs were part of it. i am probably mistaken. i never played (or had friends that played) those armies. It’s not right what they did to all the fantasy players out there. from what i hear, they still play 7E or something (which is what my group plans to do if they AOS 40k). I also had a bunch of 2nd edition stuff and it wasn’t that bad moving my stuff to 3rd (though admittedly i quit shortly there after and sold my stuff while the selling was good). It was mostly an issue with kitbashed stuff.

            look it still doesn’t make it right or something we should expect, especially in a hobby that costs this much. i recently came back into the hobby and am enjoying the formation/detachment element of the game, however complicated it is. i’m not saying the game should remain complicated, but i will be upset if it is vastly changed and “dumbed down” AOS style. i’ll just go back to x-wing or board games.

          • Matt Razincka

            Undead was split into two factions. I lost half my army. BK were a mini faction in the original VC that was retconned out of existence. Lost half my army AGAIN and gave up. Sure, it sucks, I’m just saying its not unexpected. Although, personally, AOS got me back into Fantasy. I much prefer it to the mess things had become.

          • Brettila

            We tried that when 3rd dropped, but after a while there were only 3-4 of us left and we had to knuckle under.

          • DJ860

            Yeh this is a pretty ridiculous suggestion.

            To suggest that your option to play an advance game should be to put your 40k army in the proverbial bin is just silly.

          • Admiral Raptor

            By that logic I should be able to play 40k with my Lizardmen.

            The only reason 30k is at all balanced is that it doesn’t include the worst offenders from 40k. 30k is much better off without Tau, Eldar and Necrons.

          • J Mad

            But He likes playing tau

          • Muninwing

            “play HH”

            * but i like Tau (etc)

            “Then don’t”

            * but i want something that is as complex and interesting as it used to be

            “then play HH”

            * but i want something more challenging

            — the end result is a cartesian divide. you have your Xenos and non-xenos players, and you have your complex-loving and your simple-loving gamers.

            – if there are xenos-simple gamers, they are happy with 41k
            – the simple and complex gamers who are non-xenos go to whichever game they prefer
            – xenos-complex gamers either find a workaround, or they leave

            i won’t pretend that the four groups are equal, or even that i know what percentages the four are, but i know that unless you KNOW that one is of negligible size, you don’t arbitrarily throw them to the wolves. it’s a great way to foster unreliability, create consumer non-confidence, and lose customers.

            and they already did that with AoS. they netted enough new players there to make up for it, but it took awhile and they had to overhaul the game (in a few ways that never should have escaped the rough draft). there’s no reliability that they will do the same again.

          • euansmith

            Say hello to the Tau Time Commandos; raiding the past, for the Greater Good of the future.

          • Shawn

            Theoretically it could be done. You just go to learn how to manipulate the warp enough so you can hope through time, like I believe Cypher can.

          • Justin Robertson

            Led by Riptide Hunter. Featuring Firestormsurge, Captain Coldstar Commander and others..

          • Ambience327

            You win the internet with that comment. Well played!

          • Johan Strandh

            Then you shouldn’t play Tau to start with!

            ๐Ÿ˜€
            ๐Ÿ˜€
            ๐Ÿ˜€
            ๐Ÿ˜€
            … guys?

      • Nathaniel Wright

        Play Tau in the Horus Heresy. We’ll even give you rocks and sticks to get the MOST out of your fledgling race.

        And just like that, Tau was balanced.

        • NNextremNN

          We just wait for the imperium to doom itself and win later.

      • ThorOdinson

        “And I like playing Tyranids.”

        • Nathaniel Wright

          You mean… Megarachnids?!

          • Hussein Alobaidi

            This guy is on fire! Keep it coming

        • rtheom

          Then take heart! There are Warhammer 50K rules as well, the simplest ruleset yet! They consist of one line of text. “Tyranids ate the galaxy and automatically win all games.”

          Hurrah!

          • vlad78

            Same can be said with the crons.

          • rtheom

            Nah, they get eaten too. Or go to sleep forever again. Either way, they’re gone and don’t matter. :p

      • John Smith

        Couldn’t they just make Tau rules and the blame the Perils of the warp for pushing a small 30k army into “present” times? Or space/time anomalies for sending Tau back?

      • Karru

        So then you play Tau with 30k rules? It’s that simple, people are already doing it. Age of Darkness rules have been out for a while now. This won’t be any different unless GW design team has completely lost it.

      • Pete Croucher

        Use the Militia rules, this’ll give you BETTER Tau.

        Call them Interex and they’re timeline-appropriate, too! ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Talos2

        I’m sure people like playing their aos armies, still can’t use them in 40k.

        • Reven

          Just use Stormcasts as Space marines

          • Talos2

            Bases are too big I think

    • Thorolf

      >More complicated =/= more strategy/depth

      7th is evidence of that.

      Looking forwards to the re-write, but based off past releases I doubt GW have the right tools/resource to create a truly streamlined / deep gameplay experience. Highly likely it will just be more of the same.

      • vlad78

        The have the resource, they lack the will to do it.

    • Shawn

      Or just play using the 7th ed rulebook.

  • grim_dork

    I like it. While there seem to be a lot of web-centric 40k people who are gnashing their teeth about the current rules being bloated, that doesn’t seem to be a problem with the crowd we play with at all.
    The fact that there are so many rules that you can’t know them all is actually pretty cool if you play with people who are flexible and having fun. I’m glad they’re keeping 7th playable, I’d hate to see it go away and the Heresy crowd gets it.

    • ZeeLobby

      Right now I’d say heresy is well above 40K. They at least put thought into their points costs. And their formations or changes in force orgs have real drawbacks.

      • Dennis J. Pechavar

        Sadly you really have to commit fully to field drop pods but other than that I haven’t had any issues with 30K. Balance is wonderful.

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah. I mean that’s one of my biggest likes though. I like that to take some tthings, like massed drop pods, has restrictions. It’s what happens when you write a ruleset not based purely around maximizing sales.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            Exactly!

    • Thorolf

      As a game design graduate it’s just frustrating to have this game and world and lore that is so universally loved be so archaic and behind the times game-play wise.

      It’s just that could be so much better. You only have to play any of the newer systems, X-wing, Armada, Infinity, Runewars, etc to start to feel like 40k is lacking.

      There’s also the crowd which feel 40k is superior to everything because “muh riptides aren’t OP you just don’t know the nuance of this system” which is as sad as it is frustrating towards improving the game.

      Change is never easy to embrace for a game community but sometimes you have to trim the fat.

      • zeno666

        So very true.

      • ZeeLobby

        Agreed, 100%

    • Pyrrhus of Epirus

      the only thing i hate about 40k is the psychic phase which seems to be getting worse with each release. Started with the librarius conclave, the sorc cabal, magnus, the variety of warp generating pink/blue horrors. The new spells which have some jsut insane abilities, and to top it off very few ways for people to counter them, especially non imperium players who cant use the culuxis assasin or silent sisters.

      Its the reason i quit playing fantasy, and will have no problem walking away from 40k 8th edition if its not fixed.

  • Discoqing

    So we’re all in agreement, AoS is for kids?

    • Michael Goldsberry

      Kids and new players who aren’t sure if they’d like wargaming.

      • ZeeLobby

        Good lord. Probably not at those prices. I mean maybe intro to decide if you like GW wargaming.

        • ILikeToColourRed

          you say that, but at my local shop the under 15s /only/ have the giant models

          theres always a game along the lines of stormsurge vs bloodthirster happening

          • euansmith

            “In the blue corner, weighing in at 3,000lbs, Stormy McSurgeface; and in the red corner, the undisputed Champion of Khorne, Bloody McBloodskull! Fight!”

          • ZeeLobby

            Right. Which cost as much as an entire force in some other systems. I was responding to the second half of his statement anyway. I totally think AoS appeals to kids.

      • vlad78

        If I were a new player, I wouldn’t like the AOS fluff and new minis (well except the chaos one and the big treemen).

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Kids and people that don’t treat their tabletop wargaming as a sign of adulthood or mature spending habits.

      • Discoqing

        A simple ‘yes’ will do, mate ;-p

        • Nathaniel Wright

          its funny because ;-p face and an insistence that the game is the next Candyland.

          • Dennis J. Pechavar

            If you’ve seen what Candyland looks like now you wouldn’t make that comparison. If my wife wants a copy of that game I will look for one that is at least 10 years old. Good Lord they ruined that board game.

          • Discoqing

            That is one of the realms, no?

    • ThorOdinson

      Kids who drive around in a chauffeured Rolls Royce, given the price of the miniatures.

      • Randy Randalman

        Except it’s cheaper than either 30k or 40k. Cheaper even than most WarmaHordes armies.

        • How is that? Last time I looked 5 Stormcasts were 40-46โ‚ฌ. That’s even more than the so-moaned-about expensive Dire Avengers and more than double the price of tactical Space Marines.

          • zeno666

            Don’t worry, Randy lives in a fantasy world where these things are “true”.
            Just nod and let it slide ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Oh, ok. I thought I maybe missed something.

          • euansmith

            “You can’t handle the post-truth!”

          • Heinz Fiction

            Don’t be rude, he just came up with some alternative factsโ„ข

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol

          • JPMcMillen

            I thought that was referred to as ‘alternate facts’.

          • Roughneck

            Blame the fact GW doesnt use the current exchange rates as its very cheap to play AoS in the UK

          • Matt Craufurd

            Wow thats expensive. Its much cheaper in the UK. Over here if you want to play Stormcasts you can buy them very cheaply since they are one of the armies included in the starter set.

    • rtheom

      Or people that don’t like spending half of their game time looking through books for rules or don’t like spending their time memorizing rules in order to play the game without the searching. :p

      • Discoqing

        I agree that 40k is bloated.

        • Muninwing

          cutting bloat vs cutting the game down to basics? two completely different things

      • KreskinsESP

        The best thing that AoS does is the Warscrolls. All the special rules are right there on the sheet, so there’s nothing to memorize. You don’t have to compare stats to work out what you need to roll in combat, every model has what you need to hit, what you need to wound, what you need to save, with weapon strength being determined by modifiers applied to the save. It’s elegant, quick, flexible and most of all, transparent.

        I’m a firm believer in the thinking that a game should only be as complex as it absolutely needs to be. If a huge, complicated set of rules was necessary for a game to be tactically complex, you wouldn’t need a supercomputer to defeat the world’s best chess players. The less you have to think about what’s in the rules, the more you’re able to think about what’s happening on the table. The rules are not the game, they are the tools needed to facilitate play.

        To see what I’m talking about, play a couple battles in the original DOS
        X-COM game and then play a couple battles in Enemy Unknown.

        This is what made the whole RARGH IT’S A GAME FOR KIDS NOW I’M GOING TO PLAY KINGS OF WAR! rage that happened when AoS launched so hilarious to me. Alessio Cavatore designed the rules for KoW with this design philosophy in mind. It was the original simplified Warhammer. Hell, he designed the rules so they could be with chess clocks in tournament play.

    • matty199

      And for experienced vets who have 20plus years experience amd enjoy streamlined ruleset rather than the bloated rubbish that the 40k rulesset is now

      • Discoqing

        Yeah, I can’t imagine this could happen in any game that is 20+years old, can you??

      • KreskinsESP

        At my FLGS, it’s largely the dads playing AoS these days and their sons playing 40k.

        • Matt Razincka

          +1 for a game that’s easy to just pick up and play. Its hard being an adult!

      • Don’t forget the adults that have more important things to do with their time like work, raise their kids, spend time with their wife and all that other adult if stuff. I’ve been playing 40k since RT and unfortunately as my free time shortened the games got longer. AoS actually got me playing again

    • zeno666

      Hell yeah ๐Ÿ˜›

    • Riot

      battle of vedros is gw line for kids ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • sonny2dap .

        Yeah that’s like gatewaying for kids so they can buy some models slap em together in five minutes flat and use some basic rules to start playing.

      • KreskinsESP

        It would be if it was more widely available. I’ve yet to encounter it once in the wild.

    • Roughneck

      It is a gateway game into 40k etc,
      40k wont change as a game as its sells fine and has an active gaming base, which fantasy didn’t for the selling well part.

      • ZeeLobby

        I’m still shocked you haven’t approached BoLS with your insider information that 40K won’t change. Every other rumor seems to be indicating otherwise. It’d be good to get your knowledge out there.

        • Roughneck

          Why would I?
          Just because I know the right people who tell me things, etc doesn’t mean I will exploit those friendships and then some as I value those friendships.
          Plus BoLs has a bad rep with most of the people I do speak to which gives me more reason not to as it would be going against what my friends believe in

          • ZeeLobby

            Uh. You do realize these aren’t private PMS right? Like as in anyone who visits this site can read that your an insider and know for a fact that 40K isn’t changing? And by BoLS having a bad rep with them, I’m assuming your implying that none of the people you speak to are actually GW employees? I’d find it hard to believe that BoLS would make bad relations with their core content providers, and/or alienate anyone from GW. They promote their stuff enough to be on payroll.

          • Roughneck

            Yeah and I go to a lot of events, which means you make friends and speak to the right people. the same goes for people who game at Warhammer World regularly, they will hear loads they shouldn’t as they are there all the time
            As I said previously ask GW staff about here and see how they react, especially ones that work events like the Black Library Weekender, Warhammerfest, The Horus Heresy Weekender, etc and it hasn’t got a good rep. I could point out loads of examples and other people who arent as knowledgeable as me that can say the same thing about how it has but to prove it you have to go to events and ask as me saying it here wont prove it to you.
            One reason GW launched the Community page was the circumvent this and give them back control.
            If your lucky enough to go to the events ask people and you will see.

          • ZeeLobby

            It sounds more like it wasn’t the echo chamber they wanted. There’s a reason there’s no comments section or forum on the Community page. And rumors come here from Warhammer World all the time, I’ve never seen anyone, like in any forums, or any site, that says that they have insider knowledge about 40K not changing that’s not you. At this point I have to assume your Kirby.

          • Roughneck

            Well you know what assuming does…. cant put it here as it wont show.
            Why do they need a comments page on it when they have Facebook for that?
            Kirby isn’t at GW anymore so that is a ridiculous comment to make.
            No all rumors don’t come out of warhammer world at all. Ive seen more than a few that have come out of Stores on here and elsewhere.
            You asked a question why I don’t write and I answered not my fault you don’t like the answer.
            Two a lot of people go a friend who has a friend or friend at GW told me, so dont claim there isn’t anyone saying inside knowledge as that’s what that is.

          • ZeeLobby

            LOL. OK. You do know that Kirby is still non-executive chairman at GW right? Next time I’ll use roundtree but for being an insider, but that’s like common world knowledge.

            I mean I just have to take you as a rambling madman. You can’t prove anything. You won’t say anything. Except you will respond to others saying that nothing will change. Without any proof, your word is just as good as theirs. It’s not that I don’t like the answer, it’s that your answer has no support.

            So basically your stiring the pot just to F with people?

          • zeno666

            There now. Roughneck is only proud because his voices in his head only speak to him about GW secrets ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • ZeeLobby

            Phew. I thought I was going insane for a bit there. Lol. I mean official store owners getting very little inside knowledge (based on previous conversations I’ve had with actual management at GW), and now suddenly one guy gets tons of insider information from FLGS owners none-the-less! This would be like news of epic breaking proportions. Especially when every rumor has been pointing to changes in 8th, from both sources with insider and external knowledge. And this ONE man has the solely contradicting information. Like what are the chances of that, lol.

          • zeno666

            Yeah I know. They get next to nothing.
            But I guess some are just wishlisting things to the drooling fanboys to feel a bit superior.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. I was like, this guy must feel like Morpheus when he was first to escape from the Matrix.

          • zeno666

            lol!!

          • Roughneck

            Think your mistaken, I dont wish list as theres no point, as GW will do what they decide to do which wont be AoS treatement.
            This whole article is a wish list like all BoLs 8th ones are as its a rumor they helped create

          • zeno666

            Please. Its “I think you’re mistaken”

          • Roughneck

            Ok, so Ive got ask since your soo proud of wanting proof whose the management you’ve spoken to?

          • ZeeLobby

            He was let go from GW during the great purge. Same time many of the designers let go. He was head of sales in the United States, played regularly with Jarvis, Blanche, etc. He used to literally call them up during tournaments to ask about FAQs. I knew him and some of his buddies. I’m not going to post names. I did have the Tomb Kings army book about a month before their release. He now works for another large company in the industry. But nothing has changed since then. Store managers have always, ALWAYS, been kept in the dark. There are major events that they’re told about ahead of time, but besides that, they don’t know many of the core things heading forward. I knew 3 local GW store managers prior to them shutting down their stores, and all of them confirmed this, and this was a year ago. I know others who’ve worked as underlings at GW stores and they’ve mentioned the same thing. And now you’re going to tell me that FLGS owners somehow get this info… please…

          • Roughneck

            Without a name that’s no proof at all, as there’s no fact to back it. You could have made that up and I’m supposed to believe it? But hey, Ill give you benefit of the doubt
            Being let go how long ago, GWs attitude has changed a lot and if you dealt with them at all lately you would know that. Why previously it was mandatory you knew 2 of their gaming systems to get a job and now it isn’t as they hire the person and prefer motivation and honesty.
            They arent kept in the Dark at all, how do you think I found out about firstly the indie Blood Bowl league in december, 2 the 40k global campaign later this year? Also that’s how I knew about Guilliman in November.
            So you know managers from failing stores? Not those who run highly successful ones.
            Already told you account managers tell them, also FLGS worth their salt will try and forge close links with the local GW store to help each other out, that’s just common sense.
            Don’t hate that others know more than you from knowing people who still “work” for Games Workshop.

          • ZeeLobby

            lol, k

          • Roughneck

            That proves a point as without a name, there’s no way to prove it.
            As I said I’ll give you benefit of the doubt as it could be true but without a name its just as true to me as you believing what I say.

          • ZeeLobby

            We both know why giving names would be bad. You giving unknown rumors wouldn’t result in any harm to your sources though. So why can’t I have one of those? Then I’d believe you 100%. There’s gotta be something coming up that you know that hasn’t been rumored before. Otherwise your “insiders” might as well just be reading rumors online and telling them to you. You clearly have heard something which leads you to believe that they have some real inside information.

            I am tempted to give you the name, but I’m not 100% positive he doesn’t have some NDA with GW. Actually I’m almost sure he probably does.

          • Roughneck

            Difference is you might have a source who used to work to GW, Im not gonna tear that down as I cant prove it either way, that’s where I’m different.
            As I said I knew about Guilliman months ago but my Manager friend asked me not to tell anyone as he trusts me so hence I did. I value my friendship over your approval. Just like I hope you would if your source still worked for them.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean just because he no longer works for them doesn’t mean sharing information he shared with me isn’t still sensitive and that he’s not legally responsible. So they’re still one in the same.

            So you’re 100% confirming that Guilliman will be the first primarch released? Any idea of who will be after him?

          • Roughneck

            According to what my manger friend told me thats it.
            I can tell you ferrus comes back and is a clone captured by the mechanicum made by Fabius and the Sanguinator is Sanguinius’s psyche made manifest in times of need but that’s all he told me regarding loyalist back stories

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I mean that’s in the fluff right now though. I guess for it to be a shocking revelation it’d have to be something independent, like a new boxed game, etc. Or a specific release order… Guess we’ll just have to wait and see if 40K changes.

          • Roughneck

            See this more like it when we arent trying to tear shreds from one another we have a decent convo.
            I just think its hard to convay things on here as its messages not verbal.
            Id hazard a guess to allow balance it will be traitor, loyalist, traitor loyalist.
            Also it depends on what this campaign is about.
            I cant see a new boxed HH game for sure for another year.
            Plus we need to see how Custodes work in 40k now since they arent just Guards now.
            Heard that Dorn might be below terra fighting in the webway with the Custodes though.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, and I totally get all this speculation. My whole issue has always been that you claim that 40K won’t change, when most rumors point to it changing. I totally believe all of what you just posted here, but I can’t really believe that when you offer no support for it besides that the game is doing well. GW has made tons of both good and bad changes to their games while they’re doing well, haha.

            That Dorn tidbit is interesting. First time I’ve heard of that. So if that turns out to be true, i’ll have to give you some credit. The Manus/Sanguinius stuff is already in official writing (well short of them actually showing up yet in the current end times).

          • THAT and a non competition agreement

          • Muninwing

            back out now. last time he got going, he did the same “i’ve got proof but i’m not gonna reveal anything” crap, then tried the nameless-namedrop, then started the ad hominems when he couldn’t respond.

            i can’t tell if he’s a 14-year-old troll, a blatant storyteller who wants to feel special, or honestly knows something but has zero social skills. at this point in his lack of basic decency it really doesn’t matter.

          • Mira Bella

            You didn’t even know that Kirby is still a member of the Board.
            Face it dude. You know nothing. (John Snow!)

          • Roughneck

            No I meant he doesn’t work for the Company in the CEO capacity where he makes real changes
            like he did before and basically put GW in an unapproachable silver tower that feared hobbyists where the new one is more open to the community.

          • Roughneck

            I suppose your a fountain of knowledge? And know who everyone is in the company you work for?

          • zeno666

            So you work for GW?
            That explains a lot…

          • Roughneck

            Assume much princess?

          • Mira Bella

            No im not.
            I don’t know a single soul who works for the company.
            Neither did I ever claim that I do.

          • Roughneck

            So don’t expect others to know every CEO or executive when writing a response in the heat of the moment, or while doing other things? But you don’t know the CEOs of the company you work for?
            Don’t hold others to a magic standard you can’t attain yourself

          • Meh…..not always. There was a time when they’d let store managers know about 3 months out. I had the Dark Elf photo copies in my hands at one point, the rules for 5th in Feb/Mar were shown to manger trainees and we used to get the black boxes. That was under Ernie Baker, but he kinda fouled things up with the business stateside. It was a good time back then.

            From what I understand though, they say NOTHING to managers if possible these days…..and pay them less. Kinda sucks

          • Roughneck

            That mean I’m Randy Orton then ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • zeno666

            You can be anyone you want dear.

          • Roughneck

            As can you princess.

          • ZeeLobby

            He clearly meant to say Randy Randalman

          • Roughneck

            I take you as someone who thinks GW is responsible for everything that is evil in the world.
            I meant he doesn’t work there in any real capacity anymore as apposed to how he used.
            Not at all, no one can prove anything you see on here apart from Games Workshop so that’s moot point really.
            Stiring things up with people tends to be your job and I enjoy the discussions with you as you test a person.
            I for once haven’t really opposed what you’ve said, but you like to insult people and joust. I accept everyone’s entitled to believe and say what they like but it doesn’t mean its true. I don’t care if you do or don’t believe me, that’s up to you.

          • ZeeLobby

            I’m not insulting you. I’m asking for clarity and expressing shock that you have insider knowledge at GW but don’t know that Kirby still sits on the board. Those just seem massively contradictory to me. There’s NO WAY Kirby woudn’t no whether or not changes to 40K were coming. He might no longer have a hand in those changes, but good lord, he would know what changes were coming to the major product his company produces are.

            I’m not saying I need to or don’t need to believe you, it’s just kind of jerk move to flatly denounce something without any proof. Like in the future it might be better just not to say anything. I mean how could anyone take you seriously if we have no facts/history to base it on. Like at least make some predictions on future releases so we know you actually do have insider info. Like one release that’s outside of the rumor cycle that you know about? Then you’d get all the credibility in the world.

          • Roughneck

            Im just saying you have habit for it when people don’t agree with you.
            As I said I meant as in he doesn’t make any real decisions anymore, but as I said read into it what you will.
            I never aid Kirby wouldn’t but I speak to enough GW Managers to know that 8th wont come till after The Gathering concludes and the summer campaign is over. Before Christmas you were certain that 8th would be out in Jan along with plastic sisters, neither happened but I said they wouldn’t and they didnt.
            Just because people have track records in getting rumors right half or spot on doesn’t mean they always tell the truth.
            Future release is first loyalist primarch is Guilliman but Ive known that since before December from a Manager of a Games Workshop store and the stories that will accompany all when they return but why should I spout it off apart from to my close friends. I don’t really care about online credibility, I just enjoy the challenge of talking to you presents.

          • ZeeLobby

            LOL. I think you’re confusing me with someone else. I never said sisters would be out in January. In fact I have always predicted that they aren’t coming out, at least anytime soon. Even when Celestine dropped I assumed it was a single release. I’ve always thought their leak video was a tongue in cheek joke.

            And I’ve never said that 8th will drop in January. I do think we’ll see it this year though. There’s clearly been a build up of rumors pointing to it, and the lead up of the current 40K “End Times” is very similar to what we saw in fantasy before AoS. Regardless, I’ve never claimed to have insider information concerning releases. Sure I can predict things, but I never claim them. The difference is your claiming facts. And so what you’re saying now is that 8th IS coming, and what, that there will be no changes to 40K in 8th edition?

            A track record does give a rumor monger credibility though. Guilliman and Cypher have been making rumor rounds for a while now. Heck, it was posted back in December. But there’s definitely releases planned for this year that aren’t in rumors yet. If you could give one of THOSE it would add a lot to anyone who wants to believe you.

          • Roughneck

            You did, but ok whatever. I see you say nothing about when you said 8th was definitely dropping in January though, and I was right it didn’t.
            Point still stands before you said you hated how divisive the 40k online community is when your exactly one of the people who makes it that way by not allowing someone to disagree with you or say something you dont want to hear.
            Facts are what you make them online as if your not there to hear it or witness it, you will never know its true.
            Point is you can have a different opinion to me and not believe what I say that’s fine, as if everyone just agreed with what people said life wouldn’t be interesting.
            I could have made a massive point out how your a hypocrite on house rules and have had a go at numerous people for saying make them and use them but I didn’t as whats they point. It takes all sorts of people to make life fun, you just like to troll as if you don’t believe it, it cant be true and because I’m stubborn I reply.

          • ZeeLobby

            I’ve searched my comments, and I simply didn’t. If you can find it, then prove it. I can’t prove that I didn’t say something.

            And now you’re talking about me. I’m trying to stay on topic here, and not point fingers. You said 40K isn’t going to change. Then you mentioned that 8th might come after this summer. That’s fine, I simply asked if 8th does come, then you know for a fact it’s not going to change 40K? Cause that’s what you’re telling people.

            The thing is you’re NOT sharing opinions. You’re stating facts. “40k wont change as a game as its sells fine and has an active gaming base, which fantasy didn’t for the selling well part.” This is a statement. A statement you now, and in the past, have stated you know for a fact because of insider information.

            LoL. Just because our definition of house rules differ, doesn’t make either of us right or wrong. I don’t consider using a expanded official ruleset house ruling. Clearly you do. That doesn’t make me a hypocrite.

            I like how as we get closer and closer to having you actually have to prove what your stating as fact, you shift discussion to personal attack. Lol. Carry on. This is no longer the discussion it was. But it smacks heavily of American politics, which I’m pretty sick of at this point.

          • Roughneck

            Said 40k as a rule set isn’t going to change, as from a business point of view its not struggling in anyway shape or form as to need a radical change like fantasy was. Fact is from a sales and numbers point of view it doesn’t need a change, but you’ll say I’m wrong here but GWs financials prove its not, also the rules aren’t as bloated as people think if they listen to GW and say you dont have to use every rule if you cant like Demolishing buildings etc….
            I think if I remember right we both said a few things we would like to happen like alternative activation and shooting in and out of close combat in a previous message.
            When I said 8th wouldn’t happen in Jan you tried to crucify me and others and yet we were correct and it didn’t happen.
            You are as any rule that you use that isn’t in the 40k set as per bringing ones in from 30k is house ruling as they are designed for 30k not 40k. You might try and polish it to be something it isnt but its house ruling and makes you a hypocrite as if its not adopted game base wide it becomes a house ruling.
            You havent proved me wrong on anything and you still haven’t revealed your GW management source I see so I take it you were lying about that then with your logic?
            Finally if your not American or don’t live in America you have no right to look in their backyard and politics as a country and comment, try looking in your own before looking at others.

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. FIND MY POSTS. They don’t exist. Its not my burden to find them. I NEVER said 8th would drop in January. LoL. We can jsut stop. you’re fighting a battle with some imaginary person who is not me. And I am an American, so I don’t know where any of this is coming from.

          • Roughneck

            You brought politic comments into someone disagreeing with you.
            Im just saying ifs got nothing to do with this and shouldn’t be commented on if your not from there.
            But this explains why you don’t comment when I say go to the events at Warhammer World etc as you cant or don’t physically know people in person who do. As if you did you’d find out that across the pond we who can go find out a lot

          • ZeeLobby

            A lot that none of you shares with the community? (well except for you?)

          • Roughneck

            As we all talk to one another.
            Also those of us who have friends there respect those friendships
            also US FLGS owners order and and know GW releases 2 weeks at least before UK ones.

          • ZeeLobby

            But I mean by sharing that 40K isn’t changing aren’t you betraying your friendship right there? I mean it’s either that or it’s an opinion, not inside knowledge.

            And I can totally believe that. Knowing that 40K won’t change is clearly knowledge of something that’s at least probably 6 months away though. US FLGS don’t know that. Nor GW store managers.

          • Roughneck

            My code of ethics with a friendship I don’t exploit it or try and put them at risk.
            I don’t want a friend thinking I’m a friend to milk information off them.
            They do their weekly orders with GW 2 weeks in advance of release in the US.

          • ZeeLobby

            Right, and that’s not really the stuff I care about. I’m more interested in where you’re getting this information that 40K won’t change.

          • Roughneck

            Thats from Sales figures that are public and speaking to various store managers. As I said its not broken like fantasy was in terms of selling so if it aint broke in that regard they wont change.

          • ZeeLobby

            Right. Now THAT all sounds like speculation. None of that screams fact to me.

          • Roughneck

            Well it was fact that fantasy didn’t sell as most people had every model they needed and wouldn’t by the re sculpts.
            As I said previously I know a GW staff member that turned round at the AoS launch day who told someone who moaned about the death of fantasy that it was the players fault it died as most hadn’t bought new models in 10 years.
            In terms of Sales figures they are up for the public to see so its not speculation at all, and the fact that if you see how well the gathering has sold so far that backs up my point.

          • ZeeLobby

            I understand all of this, but none of it makes it fact. In order for it to be fact there would have to be indisputable evidence that no company ever changed a product while it was selling well. You get this right? Like pointing to sales numbers doesn’t mean that 40K won’t change.

            Fantasy is a whole other issue. I could argue just as well that GW let fantasy die, through the horrible rules of 8th, and through lack of campaign support, but we have no time machines so we’ll never know. I would have killed for some of the current 40K campaigns to have been similarly injected into fantasy…

          • Roughneck

            Oh 8th fantasy was fantastic if you played Dark Elves as they were very OP.
            Couldnt agree more with the Campaign statement but that comes down to who was CEO at the time, but it doesnt escape the fact fantasy had a huge buy in compared to 40k or AoS.
            BTW I loved fantasy myself as I had a huge elf army to represent The Sundering Time elves, and it will never leave square bases. I agree if fantasy changed at its core and had a great campaign it might have lived on but its other downside was it took longer than most 40k games to play, which in my mind is what all games should be alternate activation apart from the close combat phase to one speed it up and two make it more realistic.
            Its just what I observed and heard, as I have said before Id like some changes but whole sweeping ones like here suggests wont happen as the game isn’t that broken for a total wipe and start again.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I had a dwarf, ogre and tomb kings army. I’ve sold most now. AoS just has no appeal for me story-wise, and I already play a 360 degree vision skirmish game in 40K.

            I don’t think people here are saying that 40K will change to the same level as AoS. Heck the article doesn’t even mention that, but I do believe change is coming, and if any change is coming, it’ll be simplification.

          • Roughneck

            If the Game does get simplified and I mean if, I can see parts of the rulebook being put into supplements which is essentially what should have happened all along but complexity of the game depends on your opponent and what a) he brings to the table 2) what rules he wants to play and what you want to play.
            The problem is the core rulebook isnt a core rulebook, its a general purpose rulebook and people forget that not all aspects of it have to be used to play the core game like the demolish buildings example or every bit of terrain that’s not a road is difficult terrain.
            AoS’s problem right now is too much focus is on the Stormcast and not enough on building up heroes for the Free Peoples etc but its early days so you have to expect the Lore to be a little pants at first.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Its more that the writing style seems very tropey and forced. Like they took people who enjoyed writing fiction in the old world, held them at gunpoint, and were like, write about these bubbles!

            And I mean a rulebook is a rulebook. Sure you could not use some of it, but that’s personal choice. It should fully support it’s entire use in play of the game, otherwise it’s just a bad game. Shifting blame to the players for not realizing that they shouldn’t use parts of the rulebook is just a weak excuse for bad rules.

          • Roughneck

            Well you can’t have it both ways, cut rules out that you need to play the whole game so people say it’s simplified but then have the rules you cut out in others.
            You can’t sell a rulebook that’s incomplete to allow it to be simplified. A core rulebook had to have all the rules in it so it caters for everyone and every game type.

          • Muninwing

            did you buy any models in 7th into 8th?

            then you’ve just disproven the claim he loves to make, and doesn’t seem to understand has zero real merit, or must be an exaggeration or the like, yet likes to trot out as proof of… something…

            i know i bought some. but apparently i don’t exist.

          • ZeeLobby

            I bought 2 whole armies actually. It was my first time getting back into Fantasy in a while. a Khorne Chaos Warrior army and Ogres. Of course I played for like half a year, and realized magic was extremely OP and horde formations were just stupid, and then I stopped…

          • Muninwing

            so… either he’s lying, his “source” is, or he foolishly took hyperbole at face value.

            be careful, at this point he started on the attacks….

          • ZeeLobby

            No, I got you, I already stopped. Some people are just fanatic believers regardless of reality

          • Mira Bella

            Kirby is still a member of the board.
            Let’s hope your other Infos are better then this.

          • Roughneck

            True but all his ideas were scrapped by the New CEO.
            why GW is back on social media.
            why there is less limited edition stuff than previous and why the timeline is going forward.

          • ZeeLobby

            Not really sure if they were ever Kirby’s ideas, or just his utter lack of ideas. LoL.

          • Roughneck

            I acknowledge that I was just stating how his ideas for the company have been abandoned by GW

        • Muninwing

          he likes to make up stuff…

      • deris87

        It really doesn’t matter whether 40K is doing better than Fantasy, what matters is whether GW thinks they can make even more money by changing 40K to a more AoS styled rules set and narrative setting.

        • Roughneck

          They really wont,
          40k has a seperate feel than AoS and it would lose more than it would game.
          40k already is narrative and caters for that style of play its more your opponents that influence if you play it or not

    • KreskinsESP

      Kids and people who like playing a full, medium-scale game in the amount of time it takes to do a turn in WFB/40k.

      • zeno666

        So… Kids? Yepp!

    • the_wheel_turns

      40k Was always the kids game. WFB was the adult game. Now AOS has turned fantasy into a kids game as well.

      GW no longer make games for adults. Which is a shame.

    • Admiral Raptor

      They’re all for kids. They are silly games for silly people and that’s great. The only ones who take any of it seriously are edgy teenagers, and try hard social outcasts.

  • Ray Lairmore

    oh good now my guard can be the back round people even more…….Im worried.

  • DeCold

    Abandon your armies while you still can in favor of 30k ones. Seems like they aosing core game and leaving good interesting gameplay for 30k

    • grim

      You won’t be missed ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • ZeeLobby

        I don’t understand this mentality. This us vs them mentality. Why wouldn’t you want a game everyone wants to play?

        • grim

          huh? thats exactly why I made this statement. The 40K community is beyond negative about any changes etc. Look at all the AOS hate but that game is actually quite good by comparison.

          • ZeeLobby

            I was talking more to the fact that the overall mentality of fans of GWs new systems tend to be if you don’t like it then leave, here I’ll push you out the door, anytime someone expresses concern/dislike.

          • Randy Randalman

            That’s all anyone on the Internet does anymore: divide themselves into camps that hate the other camps.

          • Shawn

            I think maybe the community has slowly evolved int two differing camps who tend to push their opinions and views on each other in an insulting intolerant way. I compare it to the Liberals and Conservatives in the U.S. Both sides are more likely to throw insults at one another, instead of trying to see things from each other’s point of view and work out any differences. This is an extreme comparison, but I think it works in this case.

            Edit: The two camps – casual friendly gamers and waac uber competitive players. There is a few in-between just as their are moderate liberals and moderate conservatives.

          • vlad78

            Comparison to what?

          • Charon

            That is a matter of taste.
            I played a fair share of AoS to test it out and to me it is an utter snoozefest.
            Whenever I hear “AOS has so much tactical depth” I have to laugh. The main difference here is people claiming abusing melee and ranged distances is a sign of superior tactics when in 40k this is basic knowledge. Also all the fuzz about finding “synergies” when at the same time you get shouted at by the same people if you use the same synergies in 40k to create more powerful units.
            So no, AOS is not good in comparison. It might be good for you, that is fine but to me it is utterly boring.
            I even force myself to watch it at the warhammer streams and even there it gets to a single point -> we meet up in the middle and roll dice.

          • Randy Randalman

            Interesting. Never had a game of AoS go like anything you’ve ever described online, and we have enough two 20+ person leagues that play games every single day. Chances are, your “few times” were simply with boring people incapable of tactics.

          • Charon

            I know. You are a special snowflake.
            Even the Warhammer TV screen “highlights” that outcome in every single one of their streams.
            Chances are, you are a sad internet troll.

          • Xodis

            I wouldn’t really use WHTV as evidence since they actually set a goal to get to that point. Somewhere along the way they came up with an idea that its more amusing with giant mashups.

          • Charon

            Which is exactly the mindset behind the AoS rules. It happens naturally. They do not decide at a certain point “lets meet up”, the ruleset does that for you. Yes you CAN make an efford to prevent that but that requires the player to act against the natural flow of the game.
            You can have that in 40k too when two pure melee armies meet up. Sure you will try to outmaneuver, but in the end after the initial assault moves are done, more and more units will join in as “the winner takes it all”.

          • Xodis

            Possibly the core rules have that mindset, but the game has advanced far beyond that now. Only time I encounter the meat grinder now is with Bloodborne since its really their thing.
            Honestly I do believe they decide to meet up, I’ve seen the same videos and thought “WTF, that’s dumb” almost every time.
            The only real cause of a meat grinder in the middle is a lack of scenario or objectives outside of “kill em all”.

          • Karru

            I can’t remember seeing game that didn’t pan out one of three ways.

            First one is the meatgrinder.

            Second one is the “Come at me bro, fight like a man” approach were one of the players moves his turtle formation slowly across the table waiting to be charged. When it happens, it’s a do or die as the turtle formation is meant to be nigh invincible just for that reason. Then depending on the luck of the dice, one of the armies is now mostly spent and loses the game due to the inability to grab enough objectives. Avoiding this wall of hurt isn’t an option as the point is to move across the entire board nicking objectives while doing it.

            Third one is the overwhelming firepower with lots of ranged units. This is most effective with Sigmarines as they can use Judicators and Tempestors to annihilate the enemy. Slowly moving across, killing everything that comes your way and grabbing objectives.

            Not saying that current 40k is that much different. Usually three turns of just shooting at each other until one of the players concedes or is wiped out. Objectives rarely matter any more.

          • Xodis

            Agreed, Im not saying AoS/40K CANT end up that way just AoS, like 40K, generally require armies or players to focus that way.

            Most of the time I have enough BB synergy to dissuade my opponent from trying to fall into a meat grinder, or I have enough Stormcast support that a meatgrinder usually dies against my shielded models…as it should. I play scenarios and objectives though and in AoS, with the lower mobility, its usually more of a race with small skirmishes spread across the board than a GoT inspired pool of death.

            The new Stormcast scouts should shake things up a little more as we see more armies getting faster.

          • euansmith

            I guess it depends how close together your objectives are. Spread them out, and you’ve got to have to make decisions about dividing your forces up to capture objectives or concentrating them to defeat your enemy in detail.

          • euansmith

            I guess it worked for Top Gear. Just wait for when Duncan Rhodes gets in to trouble for using racist language and punching the camera operator.

          • zeno666

            Ding, ding, ding! Points for you!

          • Shawn

            I happen to like AoS, and while it might not have some of the “strategic depth” of 40k, it still exists. I agree, that it’s meet in the middle and slug it out, and that may not be fun all the time, especially in a game like Warma/Hordes where the game is so melee-centric. However, I would rather meet in the middle then set up my models and then have them all shot down on turn one (i.e. Tau,) or something similar.

            All in all both games have ups and downs. You just have to take what appeals to you the most and play it. Even if it means, heaven forbid, that people actually make up their own house-rules.

          • Mira Bella

            You should play some other games mate.

          • Muninwing

            in 4th i started a Deathwing army, just after the plastic Terminator kit came out. i fielded them through 5th for S&G, and still have fun with them (when not playing Eldar)

            playing a 2000-point game with less than 40 models on the whole board means that each loss matters. it meant that i had to learn how to play a fundamentally different design of game. I had to learn how to use units to support each other, how to use terrain to my advantage and to create blindspots and firing lanes.

            i had to keep my units alive while trying to bring to bear fewer weapons, at medium range, with few optimized elements to offer support (this was back before the 4th ed codex, when LRs and Dreads and Terminators were the only allowed units). i learned how to play distance games, and control my opponent’s decisions.

            40k has the ability to be that game. even 7th, with a few too many addons making it run like my grandmother’s web browser, still has the ability to be a game with that level of control and challenge.

            i’m betting that AoS somehow does, that there is some build or some army that would yield the same level of fun interesting challenge. but it doesn’t seem an inherent part of the game itself.

            WHF had much of that. there was (when you cut out all the cheez that polluted the game with powergaming win-button play, if you wanted more narrative and more faction-focused instead of more of a competitive tournament setting) a certain amount of tactical assessment and understanding of the whole concept of the game to play and win.

            it meant that using each unit in a role, in certain locations and moving certain ways to react to your opponent’s movements, adapting your plans to fit the altering situations, could then create a shifting result with much more finesse that was in turn a lot more fun to play.

        • Vachones

          I agree, the game should be for everyone. But then again, I don’t understand why people keep saying 40k is getting Aosed (which may not be a bad thing) because of a few rumors.

          • ZeeLobby

            Agreed. I think it’s too early to say. Of course I don’t think anyone thought Fantasy would have been gutted like it was either.

          • Vachones

            Very true, GW will have to deal with the anxiety over 40K End Times until such time as they are shown not to do it. They did bring this on themselves with Fantasy. I’m pretty optimistic about 8th however.

          • ZeeLobby

            Definitely hoping it reignites my interest in playing games again.

          • Karru

            It’s a violent reaction based on a past event. When Fantasy was AoS’d, it removed a game many had spent years to enjoy playing. Now it was completely gone, their armies soon becoming mostly obsolete as the game was no longer supported so you had to rely on the existing and dwindling player base. To them, AoS is not “a solution”. It’s not the game they started and doesn’t resemble it at all.

            People are afraid that the same will happen to 40k. A game they’ve been playing for years disappears in a single day all because GW’s own idiocy and lack of research or collaboration with outside sources. People don’t want to see that happen to 40k, since they saw what happened to AoS.

            AoS isn’t bad, but it is definitely not good. To some, the extremely simplistic system is good, but for many others it is the main reason why they stay away from it.

          • DJ860

            I agree with much of what you said but killing 40k is a bit like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

            Killing WHFB was more like killing the goose that laid the copper egg that they’d let get a little too oxidised.

          • Karru

            The problem is with GW. Do they realise what they are doing? This is the largest problem with them when it comes to communicating any major rule shake ups. Their biased and unprofessional design team makes a decision and sticks with it. Unfortunately this makes it extremely problematic for those that enjoy the game because of that mentality. They release their rules without any proper playtesting and that’s what we’ll enjoy for a couple of years.

            They thought they were doing the “right thing” when they released AoS. Everyone could see how that turned out on launch. It wasn’t until the release of GHB and Matched Play, which was done by an outside source, that AoS got popular.

            GW design team might look at the GHB success and think to themselves “hey, this worked fine right? Surely we can replicate it in 40k!”

          • euansmith

            I agree that the change from WFB to AoS was pretty cataclysmic; both the fluff and the gameplay where jettisoned and replaced with something totally different in style and tone.

            However, I think that, if GW simply brought out Warscrolls for 40k units, the shift in gameplay style wouldn’t be that huge (one might hope that they would stop shoot out of combat, and make shooting in to combat a risky proposition); but, other than that, AoS is a squad based, large scale skirmish, like the current 40k.

            With the fluff, they can have Chaos Triumphant following the 13th Crusade, and the reborn Emperor (Aemporor?) on the back foot, but marshalling his forces, and working with his Xenos allies, to retake the stars. They could even change to using the Web Way, in place of Warp Travel, to move from system to system.

            Once again, a change like that in fluff wouldn’t be the massive change seen in WFB End Times.

          • Karru

            Actually, a reborn emperor fighting with xeno allies would be about as drastic change as ending of End Times was. First of all, Imperium would be on the back foot. The Imperium of old would be destroyed in the flames of rebellions, chaos onslaught and the threat of Orks and Tyranids. Only those planets close to Terra and under the protection of a resurrected Emperor would be the ones that has a chance to survive in this universe.

            Worlds in the rims would fall like dominoes once the Hive Fleets really hit the galaxy. Ghazghkull and his Orks coming from somewhere else. Meanwhile, Space Marine forces would have to be depleted heavily due to the 13th Black Crusade, same thing with other Imperial army elements like Navy and Imperial Guard.

            In other words, it would become just AoS lore but instead of bubbles, Imperium has one small set of planets in one part of the galaxy, fighting to survive against relentless Chaos attacks with the Eye of Terror expanding.

          • euansmith

            Yeah, just like that; but that is hardly any different to the current sketched in background. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Shawn

            A good way of summing everyone’s thoughts and opinions, Karru. I’d like to see a bit more streamlining and removal of redundant rules, or rules that act to similar (i.e. Fearless & ATSKNF, etc) and some of the shooting insanity, the removal of D-weapons, or, perhaps, just a reduction of their frequency (along with a point increase).

            I think the game, over all works well. We just need a few tweaks.

            I am, I will admit, a bit leery of them using exactly the same AoS system for 40k, as it will make many units, at least initially, and wargear options disappear. Part of the fun is building a unit and army the way you want.

          • Muninwing

            it comes down to a loss of trust.

            GW allowed rumors to circulate for months about WHF 9th, to the point where the predictable sales slowdown hurt the new releases for the WE. why bother buying new stuff, after all, if it’s not going to be effective on the table?

            then they made an abrupt and drastic change.

            it’s been hashed over many times. no need to argue. it happened. but actions have consequences. they had sales issues. they made a call. may not have been a good one, but they moved with determination — which is a good way to try to get through a rough patch.

            but it means that they are unpredictable. and might make decisions that turn out good eventually but cause some serious chaos. might not even be true anymore. but we only have what we can see, and that’s what we saw.

            thus, people worry.

          • Roughneck

            Because BoLs presents it as fact and people follow it blindly instead of actually thinking for themselves

        • rtheom

          It’s mostly the online crowd I think. Online is nothing but us vs. them on any site.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Kinda sad. It’s like an epidemic at this point.

          • euansmith

            I couldn’t disagree more! ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • rtheom

            I see what you did there. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Shawn

            Good point, rtheom.

        • georgelabour

          Because some people are jerks.

          Others smell bad.

          And even more have cooties.

          So…..you can play with those guys and I’ll be a meany headed elitist meaner face.

          =^.^=

      • Drpx

        It IS what GW always ends their preface with…

    • Nathaniel Wright

      can I have ur stuff kek

    • CMAngelos

      You realize 30k runs off the 40k core rules.. yea?

      • deris87

        *Currently*. If the rules change as they’re suggesting that likely won’t be the case.

        • Randy Randalman

          But until that time, people can’t pretend that 30k is some brilliant rules design by FW. It’s GW’s rulebook, and now FW is spreading it extremely thin with a dozen $100 books on the way and still we don’t have all of the Legions rules yet. Furthermore, painting Space Marines 18 different ways and giving them two special rules each isn’t creative, nuanced, or evidence of tactical depth.

          • I like that last sentence. 30k is said to be more balanced. But fighting only with (nearly) the same armies against each other probably will be balanced easily. Still it’s not what I’d call diversity.

          • Karru

            I won’t bother answering Randy as everyone knows what he is, so I’m going to answer you instead.

            30k uses most of the core rules of 40k, but it fixes the troublemakers with its own system. Just look at the Age of Darkness rules. Only Troops, and not their Transports, can hold objectives, no LoW until 2000pts and even then it’s limited to 25% of your points. No alternative detachments, formations or multiple detachments. Everyone shares the exact same detachments from which to choose from.

            This already makes the game a lot more balanced right out of the gate. It’s the reason why so many “non-30k” players are using the ruleset.

            40k core rules are not “bad”. They are not good, but they aren’t bad per say. The problem is that GW is forcing units into the game that are not scaled to certain sizes at all. Super Heavies, Gargantuans, formations that give free stuff, weapons that can destroy enemy units in a single volley, D-weapons. None of these should exist in a game that is meant to be played with “limited” models.

            Those were added by the later codices that were released. They were part of the main rulebook, but you wouldn’t see them if the books they came with didn’t make them so cheap. Do you see Stompa running with every Ork army? No, because that thing is way too expensive for regular games. Do you see Knights with pretty much every Imperial list? Yes, because its so damn cheap.

          • I agree. Still I think 30k has a much easier job to get the game balanced, because as you said, everyone uses the same detachments. And even further, they all use nearly the same units.
            I agree that the changes used in 30k would benefit everyone (I’m not a fan of the current slot/formation system, I loved the %-system used in 2nd Ed). But I don’t agree that just using them would fix 40k. I think 30k would have similar issues as 40k if the variety to chose from would be as big.

          • Karru

            I was talking about Age of Darkness rules. Age of Darkness rules can be and are used by many non-Horus Heresy armies. Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks and Tyranids are having a blast using that ruleset. It limits the bs current top dogs of 40k can do while making it an even ground for the current low tier armies.

            Horus Heresy has its own balance thanks to the Space Marines vs Space Marines thing, but Age of Darkness has balance with all the other armies in a more major way thanks to the limiting factors put in place.

          • I never heard of Age of Darkness since 3rd Edition hit. Is that some kind of niche-book inside the HH-book-series? You know, I stopped following FW quite a lot since they started to release mostly only Marines and Dreads.

          • Karru

            It is their own “rulebook” they released after the first 2-3 campaign books.

            The Horus Heresy – Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List has the rules for how to play in the “Age of Darkness”.

          • Well, then the title is highly confusing. I wouldn’t expect a “THH – Legiones Astartes” book to be about xenos rules. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Karru

            Yeah, most of the book is just the army list, but there is a few pages at the start of the book that explain the rules.

            To give you some idea what it has:

            “Battles in the Age of Darkness uses its own Allies Matrix and Force Organisation Charts, a modified system for including Lords of War, and its own mission and scoring structure, which allows players to replicate the epic scope and nightmarish slaughter of the Horus Heresy in their games of Warhammer 40,000 in a focused and decisive manner.

            Warhammer 40,000 formations, detachments, Faction, missions and tactical objectives are not used in Age of Darkness games (and vice versa), reflecting as they do a different era.”

            There are 3 pages of “rules” at the start of the book. Only troops being scoring, what units can deny objectives, limits to LoWs and limits to fortifications. Basic stuff. Many use these rules instead to make the game much more balanced. They use CAD as the base detachment mostly as the detachments in the book are meant to be used by Heresy-era forces. Many great games have been played with these rules.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. It is odd, but we adopted some of them for normal 40K rules as well. It truly never was an issue with the core rules. Most rules present in 40k have been there since 4th/5th. It’s mostly army books and list building options which have broken the game.

          • Roughneck

            what your using house rules by adopting them?
            I thought you didn’t do that and hated it ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • ZeeLobby

            Hey. We’ve tried everything to make 40K work. I’m still not a fan, and we really don’t play it anymore for the most part, outside of small skirmishes here and there, but even just adding those restrictions helped. Its also kind of a grey area as they are actually official rules, we just used our 40K codexes in the 30K ruleset. It just happens to be easy because they both use the same core ruleset.

          • Roughneck

            But you have been slating people for doing that on here.
            It was a tongue in cheek comment, I just found it funny that you are now using them

          • ZeeLobby

            I still consider them more official then say specifically limiting certain armies, or modifying the core ruleset. I mean ive gone to tournaments too and use whatever restrictions they impose, but Ive never considered that house ruling. We don’t make rules. We just use different rulesets. Like I said, it fixed some issues, but we really don’t play anymore. Probably would need to create our own house rules if we wanted to play a good game, and like I said, I’m not a fan. If I’m paying these prices I expect the rules to be better. But I got you.

          • Roughneck

            As Ive said in the past though, 40k constantly evolves with new units and new armies. As a result they cant always predict how one thing will effect another, that’s the problem with a game that doesn’t contain all the parts at the beginning as constantly gets updated.
            Its something we have to live with as GW one doesn’t have the resources to at the launch of every edition have every army and model ready to roll out especially as they have well over 500 products for 40k alone. If it did it probably would fix some of the issues as they would have more scope for hindsight but the fact is it doesn’t.
            They try their best but they aren’t going to make everyone happy as no one can do that.

          • ZeeLobby

            It’s called playtesting, and they could definitely afford it. Gameplay and balance has just never been a priority for them, and even less so now. Which is a shame because your starting to see other games that do these things pick up in popularity. Though I think GW is finally coming around. The supposed rumor of the Generals Handbook 2 gives me hope. If they took a year of data and made adjustments that’d be a first. It’d go a long way towards making more people happy, as I do agree it is impossible to make everyone happy.

          • Roughneck

            You cant playtest rules for an edition when the army doesn’t exist or the supplement doesn’t yet.
            Playtesting wont always throw up every issue or cover every players way of thinking.
            You have to remember most of GW playtesters have been the same people for a number of editions and armies and try as they might will always play in a certain way.
            Two other games are falling foul of broken rules etc such as Malifaux is and Warmarchine and Hordes have with their latest editions.
            Its a fact that as a company gets bigger and hence needs to make more money to support itself certain things take president. You have to accept this as part of life.
            Its like in sports how some teams change how they play to survive in the higher leagues, for myself its West Brom going from flowing football of years by to long balls under Pulis to now again trying to play the gaming aesthetically pleasing, but first and foremost its about staying in the premier league.

          • ZeeLobby

            /facepalm. You do realize you can playtest an army before you release it though right?

            I agree playtesting won’t reveal every issue. But it would resolve many issues that are found throughout all their modern releases. Most issues aren’t balance issues, they’re literally unclear or confusing wording within the books. Just look at the FAQs.

            Hire new playtesters then. Having old people as your only option to playtesting games is just a poor excuse for poor playtesting.

            Can’t speak to malifaux, but 80% of the playing field was fine out the gate for Wmh mk3. There’s no way 40K is even close to 50% of the units being accurately point costed. More than half of each codex is usually sub-optimal.

            While I can understand that profits are important for large companies, it’s not exclusive in regards to a quality product either. Clearly they haven’t started reducing model quality to maximize sales. There’s no reasons the direct result of increasing profits should be worse rules…

          • Shawn

            This I can agree on. I’ve only been around since the ending of 5th but noticed a similar trend. A few armies I’ve faced, such as other space marines and Nids, seem balanced against each other, but other codices not so much.

          • deris87

            That I get. Some people do like to go on as if they’re totally different games. I think it’s fair to say that the army balance is tighter in 30k, but then that’s not as hard when many of your units are identical.

    • Roughneck

      Most people play Heresy over 40k anyway as its more lore based than win at all costs

      • Shawn

        This is actually misleading Roughneck. In my area, at least at all the local shops, no one is playing 30k. Everyone at the shops play 40k.

        I find it funny that one side people complain about GW’s pricing but praise the 30k ruleset while Forge Worlds prices are twice as bad as GWs.

        • Roughneck

          I said most people play it over 40k as its more lore based. As in there are no real Alpha strikes andwin at all cost players in 30k whereas the 40k player base s rife with them.
          I stated a reason why most people prefer 30k not that its played more than 40k everywhere.
          Also whats FW prices got to do with heresy when you can buy Calth or Prospero and play?

          • Shawn

            Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Sure, Calth and Prospero is a somewhat cheaper gateway into the Heresy, but unless you start buying tanks and vehicles, you might as well just stick to the board games.

          • Roughneck

            You can use most 40k tanks with minor conversion work and they pass for 30 just fine, plus space marines can use Baneblades etc and that’s plastic.

          • Shawn

            So you aren’t tied down to buying their special tanks or landraiders, or other stuff like contemptors, quadguns, et.,al and still have a balanced game? I’ve seen the rules on some of those and they’re just outrageous.

          • Roughneck

            Well you can make a cool looking quad gun from a thunderfire cannon and Kataphron battle servitor.
            Land raiders require a little plasticard work for the look but who says your legion wouldn’t have a new pattern land Raider as a prototype.
            Vindicators look exactly the same bar they don’t have siege shields and marines on bikes you can convert with a little greenstuff.
            In 30k the only thing that limits what kits you use to represent what is your imagination as at that time legions were getting resupplied from loads of worlds
            You can also use normal Dreadnoughts in 30k

          • Shawn

            Okay. Well that’s certainly helpful. I thought I’d have be forced to use all of FW legion stuff. I’m not real good with plasticard, so would have to find another way. Also, not a big fan of getting recasts as a viable option for the models.

          • Roughneck

            Chapterhouse and other companies on eBay do some pretty good 40k conversion kits.
            Check this blog out for a 30k army that uses kit parts from 40k, fw and other companies kits:
            http://theerrantwolf.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

  • Corsair6

    Sounds like a sound business model. I would love to see a significantly streamlined ruleset for 40K and the rules lawyers can revel in an overly complex 30K. Hits all types of gamers, save the ones who want prepainted models. I like the use of the mini games to lure in new players as an inexpensive test drive. I hope to see more.

    • ZeeLobby

      The thing is rules lawyering is even less absent in 30K thanks to just better rules. Really 40K just has to be brought in line.

      • Roughneck

        Also helps that the armies are mostly the same so you dont have to look how one races rule effects the other.

        • ZeeLobby

          Eh. Even the other forces are fine. It more has to do with actual list building restrictions, accurately point costed values and tested unit rules prior to release.

          • Roughneck

            Yeah but if you go to most stores and tournaments for 30k its 70% of the time Space Marine versus Space Marine, Space Marine versus Guard or Space Marine versus Mechanicum

          • ZeeLobby

            Right and mechanic in and guard play very differently than Space Marines and yet it’s pretty well balanced. I think you could add more factions and see the same. None of what I listed above changes.

          • Roughneck

            No but the point I’m making is the fact that a limited number of factions are used and are all covered in the Big Black Books if you can afford them means you don’t need to know as much and don’t need to constantly look up or know other races rules as much.

          • Shawn

            Well, I think now you could add more factions and still see some balance, but I think in this instance Roughneck has the right idea. When everyone has the same base statline, the same units, and the same wargear it tends to equal out. Sure there are guard and mechanicum, but they just didn’t roll those armies out overnight and probably balanced factions out against space marines making play testing easier than having half-a-dozen xenos races that all play much differently with vastly different statlines.

  • Ravingbantha

    Oh joy, another game looks to get ruined by pandering to the lowest common denominator.

    • Nathaniel Wright

      can I have ur stuff lawl

  • mysterex

    Cautiously optimistic about this one provided the dump the current 40k formations and replace them with something more balanced, I.e. either they have a points cost or some other downside.

    • Jared Swenson

      Even just adding points costs to existing formations would be a significant step in the right direction. AoS does it and it works very well. When bring a formation I always think are the benefits it brings worth it over the extra bodies I could field on the table.

  • Vachones

    Its an interesting idea. 7th can be a confusing game with so many rules interactions that are made worse by the crazy number of rules they keep creating. Simplify the core ruleset and you may not have as many problems when you are creating new supplement and campaign books. It makes new content less prone to breakage.

    On the other hand, HH is relatively clean with fewer army options and a slower pace of releases. A more complex game would be less prone to confusion.

    • Pyrrhus of Epirus

      i have a huge 30k ultramarine army and im always amused when people talk about how much better it is and more balanced than 40k. Play 40k without xenos races and grav, its very balanced also.

      To me the only thing they can do to fix the game is to flat out reset it like they did going from second to third edition. Have some universal relics all people can use in the book, have all the unit entries in the back, and start over from scratch.

  • Stormandreas

    If this does end up being true, it’ll segment the playerbase horribly.
    People wanting to play competitively, will play the 30k Ruleset, which wont cater to a LOT of armies (as its for 30k). This will rule out the majority of Xenos armies, who didn’t really have anywhere as much of a presence in 30k than marines and chaos.

    I think it’ll be more of a basic rulebook, then an advanced rulebook that just adds additional content, not a 30K based one.

    • Nathaniel Wright

      They flirted with that in Fantasy, iirc. Advanced rules for certain phases or something?

    • Sleeplessknight

      As opposed to AoS where you have people who play and people who don’t play

  • ThorOdinson

    “Note how the prices for rules and minis also go up at each step while the potential playerbase goes down.”

    Watchu talkin’ bout, Willis? Many of the AOS miniatures are horribly expensive in comparison to 40k equivalents. $50 for five basic infantrymen? Come on!

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah. Affordability of AoS was kind of just mentioned in passing when it came out.

      • Nathaniel Wright

        More affordable than fantasy.

        • ZeeLobby

          I guess. AoS seems to focus heavily around centerpiece models which cost an arm and a leg, and calvary can be anything but cheap. I imagine most armies will end up costing the same as their fantasy counterparts when all is said and done.

          • Nathaniel Wright

            I imagine so too, but I guess you have more to show for it in terms of models that look exciting. Rank and file guys kind of blend together, while cavalry at least have some motion to them.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I think GW is doing better at least. Some of their initial models in the range (Bloodborne and fyreslayers specifically) look extremely stiff and unnatural with their new 360 surroundings. Some of their newer stuff is taking better advantage of it though. Any concept that AoS will be an affordable gateway to GW games is just silly tho IMO. I’d say both systems prices are pretty comparable at this point.

          • Randy Randalman

            Except the top four armies in the game are almost exclusively infantry.

          • ZeeLobby

            I wasn’t saying what the most competitive armies were. We’re talking beginners here. But the game portrayed by GW is not infantry focused. It’s centerpiece focused. At least in all their photos.

    • Randy Randalman

      Except they’re getting repackaged as $60 for 10 guys on 40mm bases. That’s cheaper than Terminators. The new Tzeentch Enlightened is $35 for three guys on discs, cheaper than the Thousands Sons Sorcerers also on discs. 20 guys for $50 is most infantry boxes on 32mm bases. $35 for 20 guys on 25mm bases.

      Not sure what you’ve been paying attention to, but recent releases have been well priced (by comparison).

      All in all, it’s not as though GW has ever priced things consistently.

  • Sparti67

    But can I play 40k with Lord of the Rings models while using 30k rules? This can escalate real fast.

    • euansmith

      “Last we saw, Gandalf was facing down a Wraith Knight. We heard him shout, “You shall not pa-SPLAT!“, and then nothing more.”

  • Nyyppรค

    Well, HH is the adulthammer. It costs more and has no auto win stuff that some of the 40k factions have.

    • Nathaniel Wright

      Rapier Weapon Batteries with Phosphex Canisters.

      • Onlinemph

        Not really an autowin. Some deepstriking or a vehicle heavy list will make short work of phosphex cannons.

        You are also forced to spend a lot of points and use up an HQ slot for a consul.

      • Roughneck

        Totally agree

      • Nyyppรค

        Which are available to everyone and is countered by a mere rhino unlike double demi companies, librarius conclaves, massed grav, scatterbikes, wraithknights, warp spiders and seer councils and the like.

        Getting triggered by one weapon you have access to and which can be stopped by things everyone has access to is pretty unreasonable when the other side of the comparison is riddled with things that can not be countered at all or need unreasonable amount of effort to do so.

  • Keith Wilson

    im afraid for HH after reading this

    • Jared Swenson

      According to this, HH will remain as-is barring a few rules tweaks. It’s 40k that will be getting the big change-up, I don’t think you should have anything to be concerned about.

    • Roughneck

      Heresy will never change as it makes too much money and has a much more hardcore following.
      Plus Id be willing to be 90% of this rumor is made up wish listing that BoLs love to jump on and act is fact.

  • Thorolf

    I can’t wait for 8th – 7th has alot of problems. Looking forwards to a re-write.

    Problem is, I just don’t trust GW with rules. They can’t get new releases right, they’re more than happy for utterly broken units and mechanics to be in the game, alongside stuff which is so terrible as to not bother playing.

    I can see 8th being extremely mediocre.

    • Dennis J. Pechavar

      I’ve been playing Dark Angels since 2nd Edition and I can’t agree more. We had a strong book in 2nd and 3rd was okay but up until the last codex I was teased for playing a mid tier army. “Why play DA’s when vanilla marines are better?” was the usual comment. Now the DA codex is great with only a few minor problems( Deathwing I’m looking at you) and Ravenwing and Battle company are very strong. So now I am called bandwagon…GW just get some balance overall and the game will thrive.

      • Roughneck

        The system will never be “Balance” because all the armies arent released at the same time but gradually meaning you cant see what new army or unit will create problems.
        As they say hindsight is 20/20 vision but you cant have hindsight looking forward which any big company has to do.
        FAQ’s are the answer to making a game balanced when a game constantly evolves.

        • Shawn

          I like PP’s release schedule for Wamrachine/Hordes MkII. A book comes out and every faction get’s a beast/jack, warcaster, and units that all have been play tested. That would help with balance with 40k if GW could do that, but with so many factions now, that seems like wishful thinking. Although, regularly releases supplements that focused on several factions at once, kind of like Imperial Agents, might work to a degree.

          • Roughneck

            While I agree that is a good way of going about it, that game has issues itself.
            GW do try and correct things but you have to remember they are a massive company compared to most others so things will take more time.
            The fact that this year every army is supposed to be getting a new kit/unit/character according to what people say is massive and will do the hobby good.
            The Imperial Agents book is a weird one as its kinda like an allies book for all imperium armies to have strike forces of one kind or another.

          • Shawn

            Agreed. Imperial Agents though is more like a supplement than a standard codex and was using that as an example of how an update to a faction could look like.

          • Roughneck

            Yeah I was agreeing sorry I didn’t word it that well.
            Probably the best representation is the Traitor Legions book

    • Loki Nahat

      good luck waiting

  • Victor Hartmann

    Doesn’t make sense to me. Why bother investing all of this time finalizing codexes, supplements, and FAQs while introducing even more models, formations, and rules only to switch to a simplified rule set? Why not just hit the reset button with all of these new models instead?

    If the rumor were reversed, I’d find it more credible.

    I’m guessing 40k will be a slightly streamlined 7th Ed with a Generals Handbook to rebalance points costs and tweak rules.

    Regardless, it’s not really worth worrying about at this point. It’s just a rumor.

    • euansmith

      WFB End Times featured some substantial releases in terms of books. I guess GW could say that they are leaving Old Style 40k in a good shape for players who want to continue playing that.

  • Mitchell

    Terrible idea lol cya 40k

  • thereturnofsuppuppers

    Blow it up, blow it up!

  • Deathwing

    Definitely a wait and see moment here but I am kind of digging it. I have said for awhile now my version of “streamlined” 40k rules would be to take the current massive system and shrink it to about the same size as 4th edition. That would still be word for word and page for page about 3X as many rules as what AOS has. From there you release a core 30k book that pumps the rules to between 5th and 6th ed core rules in size and tack on the legion specific stuff. done and done.

    • Deathwing

      The core rules for 4th edition took about 73 pages. By 6th edition there were about 128 pages of rules (including the psychic disciplines)
      So I would say if they can pack the new Warhammer40k 8th edition into about 80-85 pages we should be getting a great deal more streamlined and back to something a normal 13-14 yr old could figure out.
      30k hits 100-110 pages of rules as a base rule book and then tack on your HH forgeworld book or books of choice.

  • Jared Swenson

    I really hope this is true. I frankly don’t really give a crap about 30k, other than the significance of its fluff. But I understand there is a massive playerbase for it, and with the way forgeworld is handling their books, from what I understand, it is actually a pretty good meta, and I applaud them for that. 30k players are what seems like the target audience for the 40k rule set as it is now, and doing an 8th edition 40k, giving it to 30k, and tweaking it for 30k only, would be a brilliant move. This would also mean that all the current 30k books everyone bought would not be invalidated over a new ruleset. Now for the 40k game, I really do wish it gets a streamlined ruleset. I am not necessarily hoping for an AoSification (and I really do like AoS), but something smoother and faster. This rumor gives me hope… gah! I shouldn’t let hope build up, but it’s so hard!

    • Shawn

      Nope allowed in the Grim Dark of the Far Future! Just kidding. St. Celestine popped up out of no where at Cadia’s downfall, so hope springs eternal, yeah?

  • stinkoman

    guess i picked the wrong time to get back in. good thing i only bought books. bad thing is it costs me 200$ to make 3 armies playable. 3 more armies to go, but gonna have to wait now.

  • Secretgeek

    Two rule sets for 40k, (simple-advanced) I can get behind. Forcing me into a whole different game (30K), I cannot.

    • Loki Nahat

      then you’re in luck

  • Nwttp

    Just make some dang rules and stick with it already. Why the constant change up? What new information and science have they learned over the years to keep making a good edition – wack edition – bloated edition, and so on. And how hard is it to make points costs balanced? Do they ever play test any of the models they release? I bet i could make a morr balanced game in a week. Absolutely love the fluff, some of the novels are amazing (the first heretic), but the rules, and their business model of constant codex and rules release, and formations that are all about spending money to win, has me enjoying looking at the 40k models I already have, but actually playing games with free rules such as infinity and warmachine. I guess they making they paper… so what can I really say, but if they were a tad less transparently greedy, and better at actually making a fun game, they’d still be getting some of my money.

    • euansmith

      The situation isn’t helped by the completely different expectations of the design team and a vocal portion of player base.

      The designers play against each other, they have time to arrange games and discuss scenarios and work out fluffy army lists; as a result their games seem to be a lot more narrative based, like a role playing game.

      A large part of the player base seem to want to be able to play pick up games with anyone available to play. They have little time spent in discussion and want to be able to agree a game size and roll up a standard scenario.

  • Randy Randalman

    Any game can have a healthy competitive scene if the rules are clean, and there are checks an balances. That can be done with a game that’s a few dozen pages, or 300 pages. More rules don’t make it tactically deeper, or more indicative of a higher level game. 40k as it is just takes too long and it isn’t because of tactical depth. It’s because they release new rules for every piece of terrain, every cloud that passes over a battlefield, and every piece of fluff. You need five books to build an army and half of the armies can’t even compete regardless of tactics.

    • Wus, you don’t like rolling for random events based on your terrain or campaign all the time? :O
      /sarcasm

  • calmsword

    That’s depressing… I don’t like 30k as they don’t have Tau… Or Genestealer Cults… And I already play against too many Space Marines.

    • Chris

      That is the Reason this Game called “Horus Heresy” or “Great Brother War” & not “War of all folks”

    • Sleeplessknight

      And you couldn’t play Tau or Genestealer Cults using the Age of Darkness rules because…?

  • Karru

    Now this is something that I don’t understand about people’s logic. We already have Age of Darkness rules in which armies from outside the Heresy era can play without a problem. It would be idiotic if the design team decides to do a ruleset that only supports Space Marines and no one else in the basic set. It will most likely be Age of Darkness style rules. More complex, more balanced and interesting. All armies would be supported.

    • DJ860

      It depends how it’s titled and sold I guess.

      I would completely understand people not wanting to play their armies in a setting where they didn’t exist or weren’t prevalent.

      What I think it probably more likely is that the rules go into a few buckets, say for examples sake, simple and advanced.

      Simple set, fair game for everyone in 40k.

      Advanced set, fair game for everyone in 40k, but also where 30k lives.

      I cannot see them labelling a ruleset, 30k, or Horus Heresy or whatever, and then telling people to play their Tau, Tyranids or Genestealer Cult in this way.

  • David Leimbach

    I’d go for a decent “In Rules” handicap system. I.E. “if your friend tables you on turn 2, add 200 points to your army” next game.

    • euansmith

      But I can’t afford the 10,000pt army I’d need to make up my handicap! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Roughneck

      Thats more of a house rule issue than a GW issue

  • Xodis

    How about instead of making multiple 40K rule sets we work on 1 rule set thats fun and balanced, then we can expand. Leave Forgeworld to handle 30K since they seem to have it handled already.

    • Karru

      A great idea in theory, problem is that we all know GW is not capable of doing that. With them its like throwing darts blindfolded. Someone is yelling at them which way to aim and then rest is left to pure luck. Sometimes they hit the board but most of the time they miss it by a mile.

      That’s why releasing multiple rulesets has potential as it gives GW design team more darts to throw.

      • Xodis

        I disagree. They hit a homerun with the Generals Handbook, and if they go that route (own their game and not try to bandaid an existing ruleset) they can have great success.
        Most of the new 40K rules seem awesome, the only drawback is being attached to a god-awful codex someone else wrote.

        • Karru

          I take it you are referring to the Matched Play part of the GHB. News flash, it was made in collaboration with outside sources. It is purely because GW didn’t do it alone, instead did something that actually results in great rules which is playtesting and asking for opinions.

          • Xodis

            And? Who cares, its not like they are the first to use outside sources, and obviously it works. So if they do what they have shown they can do by your explanation, what does it matter as long we get a well balanced and fun game?
            I’m honestly not really picky about “who” creates the rules as long as it has that official GW/40K seal of approval on it and I enjoy it.

          • Karru

            You are missing the point. It was thanks to an outside source that GW managed to pull it off. Had they tried alone, it would have failed miserably.

            The point is that since GW design team does very little testing and research, the entire result is left to pure luck. That’s why releasing multiple different “rulesets” is better than one because they can’t do it reliably as past has shown.

            They have to get outside sources, I’d love them to do more. That way we can guarantee that the game gets properly tested and the research is done. We saw it work with the Matched Play and we have also seen what happens when GW writes its own rules, which is not great.

          • Xodis

            I’m not missing the point, its just that your point is a slight technicality with really no bearing other than to attack the company.

            Is D&D 5e less of WotC’s because they choose to talk and listen to their players? Not at all.

            All you have managed to say is that “GW now does what other successful game companies do”….but you’re trying to use it as a bad thing instead of a good one and I’m not sure why.

            Did GW use play testing when creating 40K6e/7e? Probably not, and its why its a mess. Then they took a very controversial game like AoS, used some player feedback and created the GH which did nothing but improve the game according to most sources. So why do you feel the need to point out GW used outside sources to help with the rules when most other great games did too?

          • Karru

            So you are missing my point. Has GW taken more outside help with any of their books released after GHB? No. Have they been good great? No.

            The chances are that GW won’t do another round of outside collaboration. They might decide “we got this lads, surely we can do it ourselves!” and then we get another 6th to 7th edition transition, fix nothing instead just break some more, or even worse, AoS at launch.

            I want them to do more with outside sources. There are hundreds of people out there willing to help GW if they were allowed to.

            Your original comment about “why not just make one ruleset instead of multiple ones” is only possible if GW repeats GHB. Problem is, there are currently no signs of that happening anywhere. This is the problem, GW doesn’t have the skills to do a massive rulebook and neither do they have skills to do a small rulebook. Both have been proven with 40k and AoS. It is only when outside sources come to help they can get something done right.

            The “need” to point out that GW used outside sources is self-explanatory. Most AoS fans blindly swear that AoS was purely made great by GW. They admit that there was some problems at launch, but it was all magically fixed by the ever loving hand of GW design team. Once you point out that it was actually an outside source that fixed the game, they go ape-sh*t. That’s why I like to keep the general populace informed about this. GW design team lacks writing skills, so asking them to do something this big is like asking a baby to defuse a nuclear device.

            That’s why I want to make sure its clear that the GHB Matched Play, the one that fixed the game, wasn’t made by GW alone. That’s why I want to make sure that others understand why taking in input from outside sources works. Many times in the past I have received the same comment regarding outside input. “They don’t know what they want”, “they just want to make their army broken so they will try to twist the rules to do so”. Well, I guess they are true as GHB has shown that to us. Which army was twisted to be broken?

          • Hawt Dawg

            Most AoS players don’t even care.

          • Roughneck

            You do realize the Generals handbook was almost complete when AoS launched right?
            It was their plan all along to launch it to allow competitive play which they said when AoS launched they would support.

          • ZeeLobby

            They said it several weeks after launch, and they talked about tweaking it from a community comp a half year later, but sure, someone probably wrote the words “add points” on a ToDo list when the game was released.

          • Roughneck

            They said at launch, as I was at Warhammer World for its launch party and we were told then competitive play would be supported and was almost complete then. My FLGS store manager said the same as he knew about the handbook almost being complete well before storm of sigmar

          • ZeeLobby

            I still fail to see how it’s almost complete when we know for a fact it was adopted from an unofficial comp months later. I could totally see them saying that they planned on having competitive rules at launch. Also, I have no clue how your FLGS manager knew any of this. GW never shares that information outside of HQ, again I’m shocked it wasn’t an article somewhere as that would have been huge knowledge.

          • Roughneck

            I think you’ll find FLGS guys know a hell of a lot as their account managers have to keep them informed in advance. As I said most of what people get told is in confidentiality clauses and I’m lucky in my line of work I’m subject to a few of those as well which is another reason why I would never write for a website.
            I wasn’t completely adopted from an unofficial comp, GW did leak out test rules for comps which is again fact but like I say. Some people are lucky to know more than others and tend to respect the people that tell them enough to not paste it all over the internet and put peoples jobs at risk by doing so.

          • ZeeLobby

            Oh. I talk daily with my FLGS owner, and he knows release schedules. They don’t tell him anything about rules though, and having known higher ups at GW in the past, that’s never been something they tell independent store owners, let alone their own managers. Youd think there’d be a lot more rumors out their supporting your claim of non-changing 40K if every FLGS knew.

            And I’m sorry, but do you mean that poorly constructed comp a store manager created in an attempt to organize events (based on the number of warscrolls)? Sheesh, I really hope that wasn’t an official attempt from the top. Again, the majority of generals handbook has to deal with points and composition, almost all of which was adopted from the comp they borrowed. So yeah… Sure they knew they’d do something maybe eventually, but to say GH was almost done at release is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard, as show by actual evidence!

          • Roughneck

            As I say its who you know and at what level.
            GW store managers usually know alot more than they let on, its just if your a customer or friend and they know they can trust you.
            As I said confidentiality agreements and the penalties for them. Some people though have the integrity to not broadcast all they know and hear due to fear of getting people into trouble and losing them their livelihoods. How would you like it if a friend lost you, your job?

            As I said go to events and ask the people who run them, especially those who were in charge of the Launch of Age of Sigmar and had to take it around the world to show it off. I cant make you believe what is said unless you go ask the people yourself like anything you read online, unless you go ask the people yourself you’ll never know 100% if its true.

          • Karru

            You got a solid source for that? All GHB looked like was a rushed release in order to save the sales. Fortunately for them, it was a success.

          • Roughneck

            As I said to Zee it was stated at the Launch Party for AoS as I was there as were numerous others.
            I wasn’t rushed at all and most FLGS had it a month before release for customers to look at.

          • ZeeLobby

            Pretty sure this is roundtree. He can neither say nor confirm anything. But says and confirms everything. And then he hears things that no one else hears, or he was the only person at the launch party, lol.

          • Xodis

            How do you know they haven’t taken more outside help? As for the recent 40K releases I think they are quite good, just hamstrung by an already broken system with way too many OP books from years ago. If 40K was balanced previously, the recent books would have fit in quite well, and do as a stand alone supplement.
            Where did you get these chances? You honestly think a company would ignore how their “playtested” material changed the opinion of a large group of players about an already controversial game and just decide to skip it? That makes no sense from a consumer standpoint much less a professional one.
            What type of sign are you looking for? You want a public announcement about it? We didn’t even find out about the GH being tested by outside sources until right before its release. A Public announcement would be great but like most things that are far in the future it’s probably on a NDA lockdown.
            No the “need” comes from your obvious emotional bias against GW and what seems like a desire for them to fail. To see a company make a big turn around like they have done and still be leary is natural, but you have crossed to cynicism. And what “AoS fans are you talking about with blind faith? Tweetle? Randy? I would counter by saying most fans take each AoS addition in stride, complain about the hyper focus on Stormcast, enjoy the aesthetic of the models, and are grateful we don’t have a 40K styled game full of broken and abusive rules. I’ve seen very few “blindly devoted” fans go crazy over it being playtested outside GW. Most non trolls don’t care and are just grateful that its fun and balanced. Also you are pretty late to the game if you want to let the general populace know it was playtested outside GW HQ, ZeeLobby has been doing that since about 3 months before the GH was even released, if anyone is going crazy its the #NeverAoS crowd going crazy trying to make excuses for GW finally doing something good, and trying to justify continuing to talk trash. Just go after the prices if that’s the goal.

          • Karru

            This will come to you as a shock, but the last thing I want is for GW to fail. That’s why I praise them when they do good work, for example the Traitor Legion, and criticise them when they do something wrong, like the Thousand Sons.

            That’s why I am so vocal about the problems within the game and what could be done to fix them. There is the issue, you see. Whenever I propose something, there is most likely two types of comments on it. “That wouldn’t help/would destroy the soul of the game for literally everyone” or “Sorry, AoS’ing the whole game is the only solution”.

            What I want is for people to realise two things, the game can be fixed without AoS’ing it AND without losing anything. Just to give you an example, I have multiple times proposed that Formations should be removed from the base game and this is because they are nigh impossible to balance. This is partially due to the size of the game, but mostly due to the biased design team. Now, let’s say someone agrees with me and then speaks about it to someone. Then he goes to speak to someone and so on until there are hundreds of people understanding the issue. This increases the chances that something reaches the design team or someone that might have some input on what gets written in the rules.

            All GW really would have to do is make a survey that has multiple questions regarding the state of the game. This alone would help the design team identify some issues within the game. If by off chance they are getting outside sources, they can run the results by them to confirm.

          • Xodis

            You’re not praising their good work though, you actively tried to explain it as a fluke and that GW would go back to the normal shotgun style rule releases hoping something good hits. Also I think 1Ksons was pretty good, again the problem is that its attached to a VERY subpar codex known as the CSM codex. Its just as good as TL IMO, the only problem is how expensive the units are, not compared to themselves, but compared to what the “elite” codices can bring for the same points cost.
            Sure change gets everyone riled up. People either love or hate 7e it seems, so the idea of keeping some and changing some is going to draw the ire of both “factions”. I wouldn’t call those people the only responses you get though, I know we have had several discussions about minor changes that could have great effect, plus you get a fair amount of upvotes that I assume means they agree with you.
            I agree that 40K can be fixed without going the AoS route, Im really not opposed to either as long my idea of balance is attained. I think an AoS’ed 40K can be more successful than both 40K and AoS if done right, but to each their own. Formations I believe are a big problem, but I think adding a points cost to them (and a points surcharge to unlock the ability to take allies) would help balance them significantly, allows it to be altered if something “breaks” the balance as well.
            Personally I hope they just open a dialogue, a survey just wouldn’t be able to handle all the information unless they are looking at specific abilities/rules.

  • helter266

    Well… That is strange… why make them 30k specific? why dont just make basic rules and expanded (advenced) rules? in horus heresy there were no tyranids involved, no necrons, etc… what about those players?

    • zeno666

      Because it’ll be space marines vs space marines, GW might even be able to balance that.
      So they can throw in some extra rules and random tables just to break the balance…

  • Sage

    Yeah I mean I know people who have spent hundreds of pounds on rule books for Forgeworld. They only just updated the red books. To do another update so soon would look like a cash grab.

    • DJ860

      And if not a cash grab, it would look pretty dumb.

      Let’s hope they engaged with the FW team and accommodated them into the 8th plans (lol).

  • Master Avoghai

    For the first time, GW would seem to act as if they are aware that FW exist.

    Releasing a v8 without taking into account that FW has a game that uses the v7 rules set and works rather well would be totally stupid.
    It would imply that all the FW books would be useless and unplayable.

    At least, keeping the v7 rules alive for HH would let FW continue to develop its product without problem.

  • NagaBaboon

    Depends on how they pull it off. It could actually get me back into 40K though so I’m not complaining…. wait, am I not complaining? I wonder if this is what recovering drug addicts feel like when temptation comes calling.

  • Stealthbadger

    Who is mikhael and what’s his track record like?

  • Sleeplessknight

    ATTENTION!!!!
    I’m seeing a lot of people claiming they can’t use their Tau/Genestealer Cult/Tyranid/Whatever Xenos 40k army in Horus Heresy.

    NEWSFLASH!!!!
    YOU CAN! And you can use it right now! And your game can be better because of it.

    You just have to used the Age of Darkness army construction rules.

    And if you still think you can’t you’re either misinformed, lazy, dense, or just need to find a new more open minded gaming group.

    • Shawn

      And how is it that you don’t have to buy an expensive Forge World rule book to play HH? Rip it off the internet?

      • Drew

        As I understand it, all you need is the Force Org chart for Age of Darkness, which is pretty readily available. You don’t need any actual book, because the rules are 40k’s rules. Just my understanding, though.

      • Sleeplessknight

        Age of Darkness rules:
        Use the Force Org Chart to construct your army.
        25% of you points can be spent towards Lords of War.
        No Formations.

        Can you remember that? If not, you need help.

  • Riot

    Similar leaks in 4chan two days ago :S

  • Scotty Vi Britannia

    i really hope this doesnt happen as i love playing 40k vs heresy and vice versa. Please dont change the 40k rules to sigmar level. I dont want any simplification. gw is releasing so much stuff and i feel it is going in right direction please dont ruin it now

  • Hendrik Booraem VI

    My internet wish list:
    #1 – people stop saying “WH40K is a bloated rules-set”
    #2 – GW recognizes that there are ways to simplify their game without changing it utterly (for example, by separating it into Kill Team (learn to play), Combat Patrol (unit coherency and light vehicles), and Total War (standard current WH40K).
    #3 – Facebook stops carrying news articles about aliens and disappearing cars. (I mean, I’m so confused… why do I never see this stuff on CNN or FOXNews?)

    #4 – Disqus stops trying to get all my facebook profile information everytime I post.

    and finally

    #5 – GW provides blank character sheets for people to make their own independent characters. Like back in Rogue Trader days.

    • Karru

      Hey, don’t you dare touch my alien articles!

    • deris87

      I agree 40K doesn’t need a full on AoS treatment, but it could stand some pruning. Army construction is very complex and intimidating for new players and the psychic phase is a slog, just to name a couple.

    • Shawn

      I’m on board for #5! Considering I play one of the founding Chapters who don’t have a named character that has game rules is an annoyance.

  • Zedatkins Zed

    I doubt the split would be this black and white. Given what happened in AOS around “narrative play” there’ll probably be a 3 way split: pick-up match, narrative play( with special rules/scenarios), tourney play (pitched battle). With escalation leagues and Path to Glory built in to all. Maybe I’m naive but I also doubt a hierarchy like AOS (basic) – 40K (harder) – 30K (hardest) that would be crazy. The market for SciFi and Fantasy does overlap but not for everyone. TBH I just don’t foresee GW making complex rulesets (like WHFB 8th or current 40K) again at all.

  • Talos2

    It’s been the rumour for a long time. I’d guess fw would be worried about where it would leave them if all the black books suddenly became unuseable. It would prob hit them the hardest

  • Gartenzing

    This would make sense, since any revision to 40k may invalidate the forgeworld 30k books. Given their price, I could see quite a few people getting upset if they had to rebuy all of them, or carry around an extra 50 quid book full of errata and far to get it work…. so I can fw publishinges the existing rules under their own banner whilst 40k is revamped

  • Defenestratus

    Ugh

    I don’t want to have to freakin play stupid godda$#@ed marines to play a complex ruleset.

    I don’t want a stupid streamlined ruleset while playing my beloved Eldar.

    FFS.

    • memitchell

      So, we’ll pencil you in as a “Maybe?”

    • generalchaos34

      i have a feeling the advanced “30k” rules will have you simply using the old 7th edition codexes with some tweaks to play your xenos

  • Looking forward to a streamlined ruleset. Bring it on.

  • KreskinsESP

    The thing the game needs more than a new basic ruleset, though, is for all the codices to be redone and released simultaneously with the new rules.

    The problem with the rules right now, as far as I see it, is for the past few editions is they’ve stretched and tweaked and overloaded a ruleset to make all the new things the codices have added over the years work in a game that wasn’t really built to support them when they first designed it.

    Right now, it’s a car someone has converted into a pickup, what is needed is an actual truck.

  • piglette

    Anything that streamlines 40k is good in my book. It desperately needs some liposuction.

    • Admiral Raptor

      40k is the “My 600lbs life” of wargames. Liposuction is only a start. You’d need a chainsaw and a day off work to get through that fat.

  • Gangrel767

    I hope this isn’t true, unless they bring more races into Horus Heresy. Those of us who don’t like Imperial Stuff should have an option.

  • Stefanos Patelis

    My first reaction is negative. Will mull on it ๐Ÿ™‚

    But to play the devil’s advocate if they can do this split why not offer this option for both 30K and 40K?

    Here’s CORE handbook – play simple…

    Oh you like it? Give us some more money – here’s the expanded ruleset….. In fact here’s a squad based epxansion booklet, a dungeon expansion booklet, an air combat booklet etc etc

    You think we are money grabbing bastards? Well you can use the same models for all sets – you don’t get to buy new models to rebuilt your armies….keep the old ones..

  • miniwar monger

    That sounds strange.

    How would they implement Xenos Into Heresy era games ? Thouigh I really don’t know how things pan out balance wise between 30K Legions and 40k Xenos now.

    On the other hand I kinda like the Idea of GW pulling the Horus Heresy onto the main stage.

  • Mr.psyker

    I hope they get rid of all the dice. I hate dice!

  • calmsword

    I don’t think a lot of people on this board understand the concept of being inclusive. If you create a major game without all the factions people have become used to you do create animosity within the community.

    So if the ‘advanced’ game doesn’t have my faction it feels like the company is scorning me for not having armies I might not want.

    A little empathy makes a lot of money and goes a long way (rather than the sardonicism in a lot of these comments).

  • Kinsman

    You mentioned 2 distinct rulesets but ended with 3….what did I miss?

  • Nick1080

    I don’t think the ’30k’ ruleset will be specifically 30k – it’ll just be the rule set that 30k uses – you could still play it in the 40th millenium, probably using 7th Ed codices and supplements. ‘Legacy 40k’ or ‘advanced 40k’ might be better names for it.

    Whether they keep up the release of update rules for new 40k units in this ruleset is the big question (maybe Forge world will take over that job?)

    So the 30k rules will be an errataed and tweaked 8th Ed (hopefully with streamlined and clearer army selection) and the new 40k will be the quick play ‘tournament’ rules. That would be my specualtion, for whatever it’s worth.

  • Admiral Raptor

    30k and 40k should be merged into a single entity. There’s not enough difference to warrant two separate games. I don’t like the idea of anything that GW would describe as “complex”. In their language it means random tables, a hundred rolls to set up a game, ten thousand USRs, and the rest of your natural life to finish a game.

    Sigmar it all; let the old player base stay or go, and then get new, smarter, more attractive players. Worked wonders for fantasy.

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Baseless, and doesn’t reflect their usual pattern.

  • Steven S.

    YES PLEASE for the love of the Emperor! I will actually get back into the game if this is true. 40k is too bloated for sure. Just gimme 4 pages and let me roll dice.

  • David Cronkite

    Bring on the new 40K, I’m all over it!

  • Eldanesh

    I think the 30K side (if true) will allow GW to explore new (really old) extensions of what the HH books describe for new races and thus new models. Imagine a new Mega Arachnid army or the Laer or any of the other xenos.

  • jeff white

    Failing the same way McDonald’s has been failing…

  • Squeeker

    Streamline the rules and scrap allies, formations and forgeworld from 40K, leave forgeworld to develop complicated indepth 30K Heresy Rules. 40K lost a lot of appeal due to its bloated dissjointed play.

    • Nyyppรค

      Bloated or not, the lack of balance is what kills 40k.

  • Knightly Knave

    Did I read that right? You consider AoS minis cheap? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

    • Nyyppรค

      Comparable they are.

  • Noah Jerge

    So does this mean more plastic HH kits in the future?

  • Prof. Voland

    The Peta-Inquisition will come and confess your 7th edition rulebooks. Also they are looking for the last WHFB-Resistance to take your last Khemri models. Then they will force you to buy non pelt 8th edition stuff.

  • Christopher Witecki

    This seems totally backwards. It’s common for newcomers to start with Marines and its more balanced and easy to start playing with Marines vs Marines. Marines also make up 60% of all sales anyways… So what am I missing? Shouldn’t HH be the simple starter and 40K be the more complex game? I love Xenos, but a simple game lends itself more to Horus Heresy with its identical stats between factions, easy modelling and iconic troops. The endless diversity of many vary different factions seems a lot more where the complexity is needed. Probably going to stick with 7th myself.

  • Christopher Witecki

    People who say “They aren’t coming to your house to take your codex’s!” need to apply some logic, that’s something valid to say regarding a 1 player game with minimal overhead. Since you seem confused at why people may be pensive let present an argument. For the vast majority of people playing 40k comes down to playing in a GW or FLGs store with people who they are not living with or seeing every couple of days. Yes some are, but a large group of people need 1) Play tables and 2) Other people willing to play that edition. Now its no problem for me, I have people who will be ok playing 7th edition, but for most people they will probably soft exit the hobby and sell their stuff a couple years down the road. So no they are not taking the old books, they are just killing the edition in any meaningful way, making it niche and outdated. Oh it also doesn’t help new people who may prefer old editions, but different kettle