40K 8th: KILL KILL KILL Khorne Berzerker Rules

Come get the latest rumors doing the rounds on the web. GW may have finally made Khorne Berzerkers terrifying!

Remember how everyone has been down on Khorne Berzerkers for a decade.  Their time in the bloody light of the Brass Throne may be here.

via Blog for the Blood God (facebook)

 

Some Notes:

Blog for the Blood God is saying in the Facebook comments he has gotten multiple confirmations of these rules – so he believes it.

Piling in and assaulting twice would certainly return the Berzerkers to highly feared status in assault – as they should be.

Death to the False Emperor is shown on the sample unit roster GW showed off for the Rubric Marines (below) – confirming at least part of the rumor.

 

~ SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

  • Crevab

    Sounds powerful, let’s see how it pans out

    • Agent OfBolas

      Not as that powerful as they have 1 attack in statlines, besides – it’s all about points, they cost an arm and a leg right now, if GW fix their price it would be OK.

      • Ak318

        though if chaiaxes follow the rules for chainswords they will have two attacks each

        • OldHat

          Somehow I don’t think they will. I think it will be standard 1 attack, but maybe more damage or a better AP.

          • Malisteen

            I expect the chain axe will grant both an extra attack and an additional bonus like -1AP. Rumors of ‘zerkers being brutal in close combat have been coming from play testers, not just GW marketing, one attack each, even piling in twice, just doesn’t seem like it would have generated that sort of reaction.

        • Agent OfBolas

          I really hope so, I think I’ve played my Berzerkers somewhere about … 10 years ago? Since than they just collect dust.

      • Carey_Mahoney

        True. You just cannot call a unit Berzerker and only give ’em one attack. That is, if you still want to be respected as a game designer…

    • Hawt Dawg

      That’s not how the internet work Mister!

      Only premature nerd rage is allowed…

  • Kayreios

    This is kinda how some chaos units worked in AoS, not particularly broken, barely decent considering these are ‘zerks.

    • jack boland

      what a surprise! AOS rules in Space!

  • Karru

    Taking with a grain of salt until I see the rules themselves. The Death To the (Enemies of the) False Emperor sounds legit and if I remember correctly some Chaos units in AoS has it as well. Clearly GW finally realised that the VotLW was one of the most worthless rules in the galaxy because it only worked against certain armies. Yes, I am still bitter that they purposefully removed 1 Ld from CSM because they wanted to make that rule more appealing.

    That double pile in double the attack thing sounds way too powerful. My best guess is that it isn’t a “basic ability” but rather a Stratagem that only Khorne units can use, a Commander Ability from Kharn for example or a one-use ability for ‘Zerkers.

    As much as I believe Chaos deserves to get out of the pit of pain it has dwelled in since 3.5 was replaced, I don’t want CSM get the “Eldar/SM/Tau” mark on them where you mention that you play them and the other guy’s face goes from curious to “oh no”.

    • Randy Randalman

      I love this notion that Chaos suffered while getting more model releases than any other faction, and finishing at the top of tournaments again and again despite how powerful Space Marines and Eldar were. (Yes, meshing with demons did it, but that’s still Chaos, and they will be fully merged going forward.)

      • Fergie0044

        ‘Chaos’ were decent if you used a lot of daemons or the forgeworld books. But ‘chaos space marines’ were garbage until the legions book came out. I’ll fully admit that since then my DG have been super.

        • Karru

          Yeah, but there is never any reason to try to argue with Randy. He is the BOLS Comment Section House Troll, so ignoring him will be your best bet.

          But back to the matter at hand. Chaos was decent as long as you avoided CSM, outside the Cabal of course. The core of the Chaos lists was Summoning, High Invulnerable Saves and tons of Re-rolls. None of these helped CSM as they didn’t have much that could accomplish this or get use out of them, so you always used Daemons.

          Only lists that placed high in tournaments were either Renegades (no CSM) and Daemons (Cabal as the only CSM). CSM never placed high at any tournament. You needed Forge World rules in order to at least balance out some of the major flaws of CSM, but even then they were very bad and you needed to supplement your army with Daemons if you wanted to get anything done.

      • Karru

        Says Chaos wasn’t bad because it was all Daemons except for the Cabal, while Tau wasn’t OP because they used mostly Eldar.

        Ahhhh… The lovely Randy Logic.

        • ZeeLobby

          It’s like an art form at this point. GW needs a statue of Randy out front in gold.

      • Scatter 667

        Its really funny, how people just keep saying “Chaos” and through all stuff together, except the fact that its considered beeing 3 seperate factions and 3 codices. Furthermore, Choas has the most amount of supplements, which requieres you to lug around a cart full of books to play an army, often 4-5 books. We were already joking when GW will finally release a Chaos book cart;-) If you actually look at the “Chaos” list winning tournaments, there are only 3! actual CSM in and these are usually the Cabal sorcerers, nothing else.
        But the funniest part is that the base Chaos Space Marines codex is more than 4.5years old and actually is a 6th edition codex, where points wise nothing has changed with all the released supplements.
        I admit, Traitor Legions made all CSM armies viable, but by themselves they are mid-tier at best, since points costs are still way off.
        For the 8th i’m happy to see Chaos reunited and all in one book again, since now i can start Daemons without buying 6 different books to play them.

        • Nyyppä

          Not all CSM armies were made viable by TL. DG is the best thing out of it and even that is mediocre at best.

        • Walter Vining

          OH NO! 4.5 years old. LOL. I was playing on a 10 year old book until close to the end of 5th. please.

          • Pyrrhus of Epirus

            so because you had a ten year old codex, chaos didnt suffer the last edition? good to know, i must have imagined all those games i didnt just lose but got wiped out in less than 3 turns in my highly competative meta till i shelved them.

          • Walter Vining

            git gud.

          • Carey_Mahoney

            That was not his point.

          • kobalt60

            I’ve played chaos since StD and LatD, and never let my win lose ratio drop below 50%, regardless of edition. Maybe your general lacked conviction?

          • Scatter 667

            i was refering to the point, that CSM have an outdated codex which by no means is capable of winning a tournament by itselve as Randy tried to imply. I’m sorry for you having to play with a 10year old codex and my point is, that this shouldn’t happen to any army. Everyone should get an update for every edition and be able to play everyone else with the same chance and not be screwed because of outdated rules. Of course you can play with an old codex, but, as Pyrrhus said, a lot of times you won’t see turn 4…

          • Walter Vining

            I saw lots of turn 4s and 5s with a 10 year old book. All I sense are excuses

          • Scatter 667

            yeah, nice you sense something. but this argument is about tournament competitiveness and there its not about sense, but maybe about reading a list or two and looking at gt results. Of course i can win a friendly with my WE, but that doesn’t help against a GT list at all. And this is not about skill, but about rules and balance.
            But since you didn’t take my pitty for your 10year old codex as relevent at all, i guess you have tournament wins to show of with that ancient codex so i better leave that discussion for good…

          • Walter Vining

            that ancient codex is no more, and that ancient codex was still able to hold ground against even more up to date books at the time. models were over costed due to being 2 editions out of date. most of the war gear had rules that didnt exist anymore, and even had rules for the army that didnt exist anymore. chaos tears are awesome and fuel me more than anything. i have a dairy that specializes in making cheese if you need some.

          • Carey_Mahoney

            You’re playing Wood Elves in 40k? Fancy!

            😉

          • Walter Vining

            actually I play bretonians in 40k

      • Nyyppä

        “Chaos” = CSM + Daemons + renegade knights + various FW stuff.

        Your claim is just about as credible as saying that sisters were good because marines were good and both are under “imperium”.

        • ZeeLobby

          Well it’s Randy, so facts are only true when they work in his favor.

          • Nyyppä

            Roger that.

      • Nyyppä

        “Chaos” = CSM + Daemons + renegade knights + various FW stuff.

        Your claim is just about as credible as saying that sisters were good because marines were good and both are under “imperium”.

      • Pyrrhus of Epirus

        merging with chaos is not chaos space marines. And even with merging with demons, there was no winning tournament with those lists. The chaos lists that recently did very well at a major tournament, consisted of rules from forgeworld and tons of forgeworld artillery.

        Neither is a chaos space marine list. Or do you think that because a faction that is poor like say blood angels, were actually good because you could take white scars with them?

        one formation in the form of the sorc cabal was the only thing considered top tier in the entire chaos space marine arsenal.

    • AircoolUK

      I think the second pile-in comes from a character bubble.

    • I wonder if that “Death to the False Emperor” will only give bonus attacks vs Imperial factions. Somehow I doubt it, but isn’t the name then a bad choice?

    • Scatter 667

      The Death to the False Emporer rule might still be tied to the Imperium and not a rule which applies against every enemy.
      The Berzerkers were always special units with the rage. The double fight seems strong, but we know from GW everything CSM gets, or Chaos in general, comes with a downside. So i wouldn’t be surprised if they build in a mandatory move or charge the next unit if in range or something like that for Berzerkers. That would balance things and would make it much more tactical for the attack planing.
      I can also see that some other CC units will get something similar, since the second pile in could be used to surround the enemy unit and deny fall back.
      I agree with you, that Chaos should not become the new Eldar. I still hope that things will turn out to be fairly balanced across the board and every army will be viable. Finally all will boil down to points costs, which they said they will adjust if neccessary. I keep my fingers crossed;-)

    • Ak318

      Double pile in and attack is actually not too bad an ability as you may think. In AoS it is used on a number of units.

      Konrad has it where you roll a dice after resolving all his attacks if you roll less than the number of models he slew you get to immediatly pile in and attack again.

      The TK bone giant, has you roll a dice after resolving all your attacks on a 5+ immediatly pile in and attack again. If you have a specific hero is neraby this gets changed to a 4+.

      Blood warriors (AoS’s closest think to khorne beserkers) have it when they die in close combat they immediatly get to pile in and attack. (yes it is as annoying as it sounds).

      Basically these things often are given t the unit but mainly need a dice roll to set off. I doubt a hero will give the ability because they heros tend to give aura buff like rerolls or +1 to rolls, though it may be heroes make the fury easier to activate.

  • Charon

    Yeah rubrics will totally benefit from this rule… like every other shooting unit.
    Must be really hard to design a rule that is useful for shooting too or modify the rule so shooting units also benefit when doing their job.

    • Randy Randalman

      It only works in combat, actually.

      • He was making a sarcastic remark.

        • ZeeLobby

          /facepalm.

    • Xodis

      Didn’t everyone already decide that shooting was going to beat melee anyways? So why beef shooting up even more? Plus Im sure that 1Kson Sorcerer with the Rubrics can use all the help it can get when defending his toy soldiers.

  • euansmith

    “Bloodskullsarg, is there nuffin’ more to our life than kill, kill, kill, kill?”

    “Nah, son, there’s “kill ag’in”.”

    “Hmmm… kill, kill, kill, kill… an’ kill ag’in? I like it.”

    • Fergie0044

      How about some “maim” or “burn” to spice things up?

      • euansmith

        Heretic!

      • Old zogwort

        how many skulls did you collect by burning them..
        stick at killing

        • petrow84

          KILL, MAIM, BURN! You think, it is a friggin joke?! That’s the proper order.. I mean, Chaos, to get a presentable skull for the Skull Throne!

          Kill – it is very hard to get the skull of a living being.
          Maim – remove the excess parts. It is called Skull Throne for a reason, and you should never try to fool our lord with a hip bone, or such.
          Burn – so far the most efficient way to remove unnecessary fur, hair, skin and flesh from the skull. After that a strong polish is advised, though.

  • Zero

    Hope they have new models for these zerks. Those Plague Guards look really sick so I’m hoping these guys also get a makeover soon 😀

    • Randy Randalman

      They will, and they have a good template from the Blood Warriors.

      • Scatter 667

        i hope they don’t go down that route. As a World Eaters palyer i would like to see them resemble still CSM without too much of warp change, but with a nice amount of Khorne decoration. I hope they go with the new Kharn style and make them match him. The new sculpt is a nice way to khorne things up, but still keep them CSM and show their heritage. Blood Warriors are way too much and they lack the unitary look, since all have different helmets, weapons and armour. And i don’t like the bare arms at all. Fine for Kharn, but not the rest of the guys…

        • OldHat

          Same. New Kharn is a good mesh of old-school and new school 40k.

  • Nyyppä

    So, where are the rules?

    • Jason Bingham

      In the Index.. Which the rep happily shared with me. Which is why you guys have this snippet.

      • Nyyppä

        So, nothing but speculation and rumors. Roger that.

  • AircoolUK

    There’s an AoS Khorne unit which has the same rule. A lot of the models also have rules that help with charging.

  • Heinz Fiction

    Not a fan of rules that have me move my models more often than necessary as it tends to get quite time consuming. Why not just give them more attacks?

    • karloss01

      Because as it looks like it’s AoS rules then you can divide an enemy unit up through casualties, denying them a chance to strike back. Allowing the berserkers to pile in twice means they can minimise the amount of models that get left behind from wound inflictions.

    • Malisteen

      You alternate activating units to fight in close combat (after chargers, anyway). This is slightly less good than just double attacks, because the unit you’re attacking has a chance to fight back after your first swing, killing some models and reducing the number of zerkers who are still there to swing the second time.

  • Angus MacKenzie

    “Blog for the Blood God”. The power of the written word!

    • petrow84

      Scribes for the Skull Throne!

  • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

    the Ffalse Emperor? Is the Golden Throne located in Swansea? 🙂

    • Nno, ddon’t mmake jokes about stttuttterers!

      (seriously, it’s a mean thing to have)

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        Not mocking stammerers, but Welsh place names that sometimes have ff dd or ll in them and no vowels.

        • I was making a joke. But today I learned something new 🙂

    • Jason Bingham

      So what if I had a few extra crayons and it messed with my spelling.

  • MechBattler

    I like how the new AP system has also made all the power weapon types relevant again. Previously, most people would just take the one with the lowest AP because that’s what let you take out the widest range of models.

    Now that AP is a modifier, staves and axes look more attractive since they grant a strength bonus but still reduce saves a little.

    I thought save modifiers would be a pain, but I’m pleasantly surprised that the more I examine it, the more I realize it’s doing wonders to rebalance things.

    • Malisteen

      yeah, I personally still preferred when a power weapon was a power weapon, regardless of its shape, so that I could model based on aesthetics and not worry about it, but the new power weapon rules are a lot more even then the ones from 6th and 7th, so I’m happy with them.

  • Alexis Muscat

    So far so good, sounds very interesting, but I wonder what will be of the Noisy Marines .. Wait and see.

  • Xodis

    I hear my Chain Axes revving in the distance….oh yes it is a new dawn of skulls and blood!

  • Jason Bingham

    I sent this message to Blog for the Blood God. It’s info from the GW rep over the phone.