40K Editorial: Primaris Marines – Grimdark Stormcast Eternals

Bigger, Better, Faster, Stronger – The Primaris Marines are coming with the new edition and will be the way forward for Games Workshop’s Marine Line.

Games Workshop announced this morning that there is indeed a new batch of Super-Super-Humans on the way. These Primaris Space Marines are the future of the Imperium but also the future for Games Workshop. How so? Just follow the money.

Guilliman is good for business when your business is WAR

For the past couple decades Games Workshop has been producing Space Marine models for 40k. That means there are LOTS of these little guys floating around out there. I know I’ve contributed my fair share to the Space Marine pot, even as I moved over to other armies, and I’m guessing I’m not alone. I would wager that for the vast majority of 40k players, they have played with, owned, traded, or sold some type of Space Marine army in their gaming life-time. Space Marines, after-all, are the most popular army.

If you remember from the LVO Army breakdown then you might remember that Space Marines and their +3 saving variants made-up roughly 1/4 of the field of 400. That’s not counting any armies that used them as allies. That’s also not counting CSM. If you toss those in the mix, well…you get the idea. Oh and let’s not forget the entire Horus Heresy line that is devoted to Space Marines fighting in a previous era. Space Marines, it seems, are “hot right now” and will continue to be in the years to come.

The Primaris Factor

So what does this have to do with the new Primaris Space Marines? Simple: GW is a business and they want your money. If you have a huge percentage of your player base that has an army, it would make sense that you would want to make something they would be interested in purchasing. At the same time you don’t want to invalidate their previous purchases or you’ll make them all mad. That would be bad for business. And you’re also interested in a way to make the tertiary market (aka eBay) less appealing to players. How do you do that? Upgrades.

From the movie Soldier (1998)

Now, this goes beyond a simple re-boxing. Games Workshop has done that in the past. No, with the new edition they needed to do some thing BIGGER. These new Primaris Space Marines are perfect for that. If you already have a Marine Army, you can’t tell me it’s not tempting to want to get at least a box of these guys for your army. Do you need them for your existing army? No. But you want the new shiny plastic – Hey, I’m right there with you! According to the FAQ they won’t invalidate your previous army, they are just a new option after-all. So why wouldn’t you grab a box or two. You know…for fun.

If you’re looking to start a new army – then why would you bother with buy the old kits? Heck, if was a new player when 8th dropped, I’d be all over the new stuff – forget the old and busted. I wouldn’t have any of the attachment (aka baggage) of the old systems anyways. And these new models already look “head-and-shoulders” above the old ones…

On top of “updating” the standard rank-and-file troopers, GW has already hinted that they are going to be brining some vehicles along for the ride. They mentioned a Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought. You know there will be more on the way. Plus they already said this in the FAQ:

Will there be multiple types of Primaris Space Marines?

You bet. So far you’ve seen the Intercessors, the line infantry clad in Mk X armour, but there are plenty more on the way. And likely vehicles too…

Moving forward, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more and more Primaris kits come out. Especially if they are compatible with the “other flavors” of Space Marine armies. New Rhinos? New Predators? New Land Raiders? Hey, Mars and the Ad Mech are involved, the sky is the limit in my mind. We could even see Primaris Wolfen!

Gene-Seed is a Helluva Drug

 

These Aren’t True Scale

Another interesting aspect of these miniatures is they don’t invalidate your hobby choices. If you were one of those crazy-awesome hobbyists that made True Scale Marines, guess what, GW just made your converting jobs easier! But for a lot folks the new size of these Marines will be the appeal. It will be easy to spot the Primaris Marines from the “regular” Marines when you put them on the tabletop. Maybe that was part of the plan the whole time. But in a strange way, I feel like GW respected the Hobbyists enough to not want to dump all over their work with these new Primaris Marines.

As far as the Loremasters are concerned, this might be a tougher pill to swallow. But, GW is the keeper of the canon and they are making it seem like these Primaris Marines were part of some scheme Guilliman and Cawl cooked-up 10,000 years ago. Now, I know a lot of folks probably won’t agree with me but I’m okay with this bit of lore. If that’s how GW is going to write it, then it is what it is. Besides, it’s not like the lore is even out, so how can we critique the “ret-con” if it’s not even official yet! Give it a chance is all I’m saying. Nothing will be worse than Team-Fist Bump:

Friendship IS Magic

Overall, I’m looking forward to having some new modeling toys to play with. As a veteran player, I probably won’t be redoing an entire army with these Marines – but that doesn’t mean I won’t pick-up a box to two. Everyone in the world that has Space Marines now has an entirely new army they can collect that will work seamlessly with their current army. If you want to make an educated guess at the future of Space Marine releases take a look at the Stormcast Eternals line. That doesn’t mean the old kits are going away, but expect any new kits for the Space Marines to be Primaris-based moving forward.

Sorry Chaos Space Marines, try not to be to bitter about it, I have a feeling Papa Nurgle has something planned for you.

 

Are you a veteran player with Space Marines? How do you feel about the new Primaris Models? Will you be picking them up or skipping on these marines?

  • Walter Vining

    relieved

    • wibbling

      Probably more likely ‘revealed’, but hey. This is BoLS, who managed to spin three articles out of one announcement.

      • NNextremNN

        To be fair they made 3 articles about 3 articles from GW but yeah they could have made them into one.

  • orionburn

    Curious to see what the new chapters will be like. I may have to make my own fluff to use my existing DA models alongside the new kids.

    • BT

      Or the old chapters. How does this effect the fluff around the Lamenters for example? Will they suddenly be back to full strength? I think what they do with Space Wolves and Blood Angels (and their successors) will be interesting. There is also the possibility of bringing back the old traitor legions, which I think would be pretty cool too. I would love to see loyalist Emperors Children in 40k.

      • SWISSchris

        Full strength Crimson Fists company to go with my scout force? Oh yeah.

        • SWISSchris

          Woah, hold on, just read they don’t have access to special or heavy weapons…. err… what? Hope I’ve got that wrong otherwise these dudes will be joining the Centurions.

          • Jeremy Larson

            You read that right, but I figure there will be more to it. Something special from their Primarus keyword, possible effects from characters or access to vehicles. And points will be a big decider.

          • SWISSchris

            But it means, with those rules, these are not going to be replacements for standard marines. I mean you can use Primaris marines in place of regular marines, but they are indeed new separate things, not just a new mk of armour as a lot of us expected. I mean, no tactical squad equivalent.

            Unless this Intercessor squad is basically a Primaris Tac squad, and we’re going to see a dev squad and assault squad equivalent be released shortly after / alongside 8th with access to different weapon classes.

            My money on alongside 8th ed.

            They just need to increase the size of transport vehicles now as Primaris marines make the Land Raider look just a touch puny.

          • GnomesForge

            Can’t wait until Primaris land raiders get replaced for bigger ones when secundus Marines come along next year for the annual “story progression”

          • SWISSchris

            Oh yesss – Plasma rifles: http://i.imgur.com/VXQwZbb.jpg

          • Andy Wise

            Well that’s fairly conclusive 🙂

      • Jonathan B.

        Considering that there is a giant warp rift spanning the galaxy that cuts of Baal from Terra, I can see how the Blood Angels might not get Primaris Astartes… Just saying.

        • The Rout

          Lucky you… it says there will be wolf ones… sigh

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          they are getting them, in spite of all fluff logic.

      • Drpx

        Lamenters will be the one chapter that doesn’t get them.

        • BT

          Or worse… they get shipped and are lost to chaos during the warp jump. Then those guys attack a loyal force, and the Imperium thinks the Lamenters have turned to Chaos and call for the Chapter to be hunted down like dogs and wiped out. They will send the Executioners, Minotaurs, and Space Sharks (Carcharodons), in a way re-enacting the Badab War.

      • VanosOfManos

        I’m stoked to be able to use these as a way to add fluff reinforcement to a chapter that’s been beat up pretty badly over the years. I was already considering building a force of Steel Confessors to work alongside my already existing Skitarii/AdMech forces so I might be one of the people who actually love the fluff reasons behind the Primaris. I mean… of course new marines created by an AdMech Magos would be sent to reinforce the chapter that already had big ties to them! Hell… maybe the Steel Confessors were the first attempt by Cawl to work with Marine geneseed….

        For me, I can see some great fluff and narrative opportunities with these guys.

      • Paul Raymond

        Loyalist Emperor’s Children? You mean the Red Scorp- ::BLAM:: HERESY!

    • Anne Employee

      My guess is the new chapters are just to cover player home grown stuff and that GW won’t talk about them directly themselves.

      • Locke

        I mean one interesting thing that might come of it is they may reveal what happened to the 2 original founding chapters wiped from Imperial history.

        They have dropped continual hints throughout the Horus Heresy series so who knows!

      • Aside from a sample one in the new book that is built entirely of primus marines and their vehicles…

  • Trey

    There is a good argument that these are “Restored” gene seed marines. The enhancement may mostly be going back to very very old gene seed, possibly laid in storage by Guilliman and cawl when the possibility of needing emperium secundus was a viable thought.

    The Armor and bolt rilfe (just a bolter with kraken bolts mostly) are not all that hard to imagine the lord of the Ultramarines did not think that innovation should have stopped.

    With R.G. being the effective ruler of the Empire of man the Imperial Truth of Science and Logic will be moving to the fore even if only in tiny fits and starts.

    • jmaximum

      While I can clearly see through GW’s thinly veiled attempts to get more of my $$ for their overpriced product, I am curious to see how the lore plays out.
      Remember the schism and tensions between Terran-born marines and home planet Marines in HH?
      I suspect there will be a lot of that again between original Marines and new guys.
      Also, big blue RG is NOT a lectivio-divinatus thumping believer, quite the contrary. So are the Primaris Marines going to be Imperial Truth guys instead of Imperial Faith? How does that play out with whichever chapters they are attached to, or when they inevitably cross paths with Battle Sisters, Inquisitors, or any part of the Ecclesiarchy?
      I for one really want to see, or at least read, how this plays out.

      Or, and I am going WAAAAAY the frig out there, what if the Inquisition thinks that, in order to preserve the Imperium, RG needs to die?

      • Shawn

        Definitely great story ideas that should be explored. Inquisitors with such ideas would make it especially easy for Chaos to corrupt them.

      • VanosOfManos

        It certainly wouldn’t be the first time the Inquisition or other segments of the Imperium reacted like that. I mean, part of the reason the whole Webway Project was secret was because of how the Emperor feared the navigators would react. I can only imagine what 10,000 years of ingrained dogma would push fanatics in the Inquisition or Ecclesiarchy to do.

        It’s one of the reasons I was happy they brought back Guilliman: of all the Primarchs he’ll have some of the most interesting interactions with the Imperium he’s woken up to.

  • Farseerer

    I think GW has been sitting on these for a while (rumors of TS Marines have been floating around for very long time).

    To me this indicates that they started development before the appointment of their new CEO and the general change of approach we’ve been seeing for that last 2 years. (we know it takes two years minimum for a model to go from concept to shelf)

    Given their inception was almost certainly over 2 years ago, I would say that originally, they were intended as a replacement.

    However, the more customer friendly GW is now aware that replacing normal marines would lead to a nerd rage so palpable that people going into their local GW and lighting themselves on fire would be a very real possibility.

    We know how much plastic molds cost to make so instead of not using them they decided to write some dodgy fluff to give us these new Marines without invalidating the old ones.

    That’s my theory anyway.

    • ZeeLobby

      Personally I see this as a super idiotic way to try and make customers feel better, that any customer with a brain can see through the gambit to the eventuality of loss of support for their current mini-marines. But meh, some people will buy on regardless. Why they couldn’t just gradually replace mini-marines with TS-marines is beyond me. They’ve updated the line before, and honestly the nerd-rage was never that bad. I mean new plague marines are coming, and no CSM player is complaining about new models. They also don’t have to stomach some sideshow of a fluff-hole to justify it tho.

      • Farseerer

        ”any customer with a brain can see through the gambit to the eventuality of loss of support for their current mini-marines”

        I have an issue with the use of this kind of language to support wild speculation.

        I am a customer, so what are you saying? That I’m brainless because I don’t see things your way? This is an extremely childish way to argue or discuss things in general.

        You didn’t even address any of my points. You just more or less copypasted the same point you’ve been making all day over a few articles.

        Why bother

        • ZeeLobby

          “I think GW has been sitting on these for a while (rumors of TS Marines have been floating around for very long time).”

          OK

          “To me this indicates that they started development before the appointment of their new CEO and the general change of approach we’ve been seeing for that last 2 years. (we know it takes two years minimum for a model to go from concept to shelf)”

          OK

          “Given their inception was almost certainly over 2 years ago, I would say that originally, they were intended as a replacement.”

          Total Agreement

          “However, the more customer friendly GW is now aware that replacing normal marines would lead to a nerd rage so palpable that people going into their local GW and lighting themselves on fire would be a very real possibility.”

          Over-exaggeration of outrage I contradicted, cause honestly that’s never happened before with updated army models as long as older models were backwards compatible. I also pointed at how this really is the opposite of customer friendly. Having a sheet pulled over your face before your army is removed is only slightly a sign of a caring owner, lol.

          “We know how much plastic molds cost to make so instead of not using them they decided to write some dodgy fluff to give us these new Marines without invalidating the old ones.”

          The molds have been around forever. I mean heck, how used were the TK molds when they decided to axe them as a faction? I don’t think it’s possible for us to make any assumption based on mold cost of this decision.

          All that said, I clearly addressed the points that matter. And yes, maybe I do see people who just assume these will run in parallel as a little foolish. I mean it would be a blatant example of overlapping products with direct cannibalization. That’s like a hard fact against your prediction. One that most consumers can see right now, and that most businesses actively avoid.

        • Hawt Dawg

          You mean his whole life in all posts, in all articles surely?

          • ZeeLobby

            cry me a river. LoL. Go play your passive aggressive sideline quipping somewhere else.

          • Hawt Dawg

            Aggressive? The obvious is never aggressive. Just obvious.

            You know, repeat, post, repeat, post, and so on.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean at least I converse. And don’t just join a cheering team. If I had to describe your posts in two words they’d be “woefully predictable”.

            GW article: complain about complainers
            WMH article: neutral-praise, but not at the cost of GW.

            LoL. That’s pretty good eh?

          • Hawt Dawg

            I love it when you care.

          • ZeeLobby

            Love it when you pretend not to 😀

          • Hawt Dawg

            You can do better than that.

            Breathe… just… breathe…

          • ZeeLobby

            Don’t really have to. I have your pattern down cold. I’ll have to try again when you do something abnormal. But I doubt I’ll ever see that so…

          • Hawt Dawg

            You really need Lionel Richie to fulfill this whine feast of yours.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Took you no time to hit “Hawt Dog Interaction #1” above. It’s really all you’ve got at this point, might as well cling on eh?

          • Hawt Dawg

            No, you give yourself too much credit.

            I am all over you. I cracked you before and will again.

          • ZeeLobby

            LoL. So weird.

          • Hawt Dawg

            Agreed!

        • GnomesForge

          Who cares if you have a problem. Move on to the next post if you don’t like it. I have a problem with self appointed thought and speech police. Stop being so beta, no one’s acting childish. Adults work hard for their money and have less and less time. No one is obligated to smile when GW unzips it’s pants and nobody is obligated to tolerate tone policing for a product they bought. It’s their business how they complain. Don’t like it? Pound sand.

      • Shawn

        Give them time. Since, it’s CSM, they will definitely lament about them, especially about their effectiveness on the battlefield 😉

        • ZeeLobby

          Haha, you may have got me there.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        I am still concerned with the size creep of the models, we are still playing essentially on a 6×4 realm of battle board and with everything being so big it makes the table smaller, add in lots more models and this is not a good thing. AoS really turned us off with the hordes of models that are generally larger than their fantasy ancestors.

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah. We’ve noticed this as well. Not a huge fan. If they moved it more towards a skirmish sized game, I’d have an easier time getting behind it. I’m not sure why they’re increasing size as well? Maybe to show more detail on the models. I mean It does allow them to make some really cool looking stuff, but it just doesn’t scale well to their ruleset. Hmm

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            The initial thought was AoS was going to be skirmish, but all I saw (until the group dwindled to just 3 of us) was armies that put our old warhammer forces to shame in size. granted most of those were old warhammer armies themselves, but seeing 60 stormcast with their cavalry basically fill up a board made us cringe. I hear there is a new AoS skirmish game coming out soon as well.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, it looks to be more of a hex-based board game though (at least from what we’ve seen so far). The scale makes a lot more sense there though.

          • Matthew Pomeroy

            oh sure on that it would be fine, since the hex pretty much makes the “Table” thats how IS works with rancors and such.

        • BaronSnakPak

          They may be taller, but they’re still on 32mm bases like regular marines, except the captain which looks to be on a 40mm.

      • BartTP

        Yet, there’s a problem. Almost every vehicle has it’s storm bolter shooter or pilot model. You’d have to make those bigger too to compensate that.

        • ZeeLobby

          Well they’re getting new vehicles and dreadnoughts so… I think we will see those.

          • BartTP

            But that would probably mean making the vehicles bigger. Like, way bigger. Imagine bigger land raider.

          • ZeeLobby

            I’m just forwarding what we’ve been told. Maybe they will be bigger. They were underscaled to begin with.

    • Shawn

      And not entirely out of the realm of possibility, either.

    • TenDM

      Have we seen any sort of confirmation that they actually are true scale? I mean they don’t look particularly true scale from those pictures. Their shoulder pads are compatible, and compared to the elbow and arms they look about the same. They’re taller but they still have that huge shin guard and tiny upper leg. The heads from older Space Marine kits can be used, and they look about the same.
      I know that true scale will never look radically different because Space Marine armour is puffy on the current models and would be form fitting on TS models, but I’d really like to compare one side by side with a Tactical Marine.

    • Mr.psyker
    • Thomas

      I would have been far less angry if they’d just said “hey, these are new marines to replace the old ones!”

      This desecration of the fluff (the only reason I’m into this bloody hobby) is just horrific.

  • bfmusashi

    So, are they still child soldiers or are they vat grown? Any lady marines? Why do they keep getting compared the Stormcast when the only similarity I can see is they like having boob armor?

    • Paul Raymond

      Lore Wise, I wonder how they fit too. Doubt female Marines, much as I hate to say it, the Imperium is a Fascist state, and every one I know of in reality, from Napoleon to Stalin, hasn’t been friendly to that. Particularly such a patriarchal society as the Empire of Man is.
      Vat grown seems unlikely, I think they are going through the same recruitment process as previous marines, just with newer gene-seed and implants. There is no reason not to think that a few decades haven’t passed since Guilliman ascended the throne. Nothings done quickly in the Imperium.

      • bfmusashi

        Since the whole setting is nebulous I’ve always enjoyed the bits where the IoM was a terrible, awful place to live that still had better things to do than engage in mysogyny or homophobia. Tabletop, it’s totally boys only, but at least in the ancillary parts of the franchise there was a chance that wasn’t the norm.
        I was hoping Bobby G would come out saying something like “it’s stupid only half the population can be super soldiers.” I hope he at least points out progenoid reproduction is stupidly inefficient in a culture that can grow a human body from scratch.

      • mgdavey

        Stalin had a problem with female soldiers?

        • Hawt Dawg

          Only one week of the month…

        • Paul Raymond

          Not so much female soldiers as women moving away from being defined by their gender. The Russian revolution saw a lot of new egalitarian ideas about equality and the death of gender roles. The new Soviet Man and Woman were going to leave behind all the trappings of the old ways. There were pretty high ranking men and women talking about total societal change like abolishing marriage, free love commies. When Lenin died and Stalin finished consolidating power that was no longer the vision of the future.

      • angelblade

        the no female marines was expalined in an IA i believe, basicly down to biology male primarchs = male only marines, think there was some stuff about females rejecting the seed and organs and dieing but its been a long time since i read it.

        i did have a theory that one of the lost primarchs was female and had female marines and that the thing that got them and another legion expunged was that she and the other primarch got romantically involved behind Big E’s back and had an child, but the idea of a race of primarchs born natural out side of big E’s control was far to dengerous to let live (kinda like the nephalim from biblical scripture) so the child was orderd to be killed but the parents rebeled to try and save there child leading to there eresure, the female marines were wiped out as they couldent be maintained post primarch death and the male marines were roled into the ultramarines because they them selves wernt directly resposible for there priamrchs actions or may not have evean agreed with it.

      • GnomesForge

        Marines are designed for maximum muscle mass. Assuming you want these female Marines to look like big Bertha’s then right? Sexy Marines wouldn’t be as effective. If they are supposed to be big like Brienne of Tarth then why do we need new models?

        • Paul Raymond

          I actually don’t have a problem with male only Astartes, to me it makes sense in the logic of the setting to make their super soldiers all men. We live in a liberal society where men and women serve together as citizen-soldiers, they live in a super conservative one where they want there best limited to their idea of the very best and focused only on fighting.
          I’d like to see Guardswomen in models again as that fits in the setting (and used to be produced), but I think people forget that Space Marines are by no definition normal, they are warrior monks who follow ancient codex’s on how to act.

      • CloakingDonkey

        uhm… Stalin sent plenty of female soldiers into machine gun death.

        And I’m not quite seeing the point of female marines tbh… I mean if you are genetically engineering super soldiers for peak performance, why would you downgrade to a lower potential range? Above all, the empire is pragmatic in their disregard for individuality and lives.

        • Paul Raymond

          Replied a bit more in depth to MGDavey, but Russian Revolution was about total societal change, the New Soviet Man and Woman living as equals, unlike very traditional Russian life before. Once Stalin took over he changed the message and that type of stuff was disruptive of society.

    • Orgeston

      They also have low-slung gorgets and knee pad rims, like the Stormcast.

    • CloakingDonkey

      The comparison to the Sigmarines comes more (or should come) from the way they’ll be sold. There will be Intercessors, Revengeners, Avengefulners, Intercepterers, Lunchablers, etc. instead of just “tac marine with accessories”

  • Paul Raymond

    I really like the look, and the fact that heads and shoulder pads interchange. I run mostly Guard, but I started considering Red Scorpion Allies to draw fire from all my stuff. OCD as I am the scale kind of bothered me since regular humans and 8ft tall Marines were sharing the field and looking the same height. Using these guys to model a Tactical Squad seem the best solution looks wise, since I have so few of the old ones. Congrats GW, you have convinced me to buy even more models this summer.

  • Jabberwokk

    The case for backwards compatibility between AoS and 40k conspiracy grows.

    Also I need some non tau, non eldar, xenos love asap.

    • Shinnentai

      Not like the last few years have been an Eldar bonanza release-wise either. They got jetbikes and Wraithguard to replace the 20+ year old ones. They got a flyer like everyone else, and they got the Wraithknight. They got some plastic character models. Most of the range is still horribly outdated.

      • Jabberwokk

        I’m more interested in the effectiveness then the look(though that’s nice to). Eldar have been at the top or close for a while. Tau as well. and often together. I wouldn’t worry though if you are an poncy elf player. Your too pretty for GW not to give some pretty new rainbow cake sparkle ponies.

        Also didn’t you get like a whole new god recently?

        • Shinnentai

          Ruleswise, I’ll be hoping that rather than “my armies” having their turn on the overpowered carousel, GW manage to get the balance close enough that all the races are competitive, as forlorn a hope as that may be.

          • Jabberwokk

            Wasn’t their a very nice forgeworld version? I remember one with a spear as well.

  • James Tompsett

    They’re going to make the space wolf versions look so dumb.

    • Aura1

      And bigger than the HH Leman Russ ice skating model.

  • rakshasa

    And, as the always awesome Snake Plissken, so aptly proved in that extra super soldier debacle on the garbage planet, the regular marines always triumph because they gots heart and wits over the young and arrogant whippersnappers

    • Shawn

      And them old farts are as loyal to the Emperor and Mankind as a dog to his master.

  • AircoolUK

    To steal a conversation from elsewhere…

    These new Marines were forged in MARS.

    The MARS FORGE.

    SIG-MARS FORGE!

    • StinkHorse

      Cute.

  • MarcoT

    This looks really sweet to me. I hope a more generic chaos version is right around the corner (ie. not nurgle)

  • Bigalmoney666

    It’s a Space Marine reboot. Let’s stop pretending it’s anything but.

    • Munn

      so? space marines suck. They need something to stop them from being so goddam dull. And no, making them werewolves, vampires, or native americans does not make them interesting.

      • Bigalmoney666

        Yeah, Space Marines et. al. don’t get all the TLC from Games Workshop they deserve. s/

      • GnomesForge

        Yeah exactly. Such a franchise could never succeed for 30 years. Forget about making video games about something so lame. Never could get on the New York Times bestseller list. Vampires, historical people and Vikings were never as popular as generic blue good guys.

  • Darth Bumbles

    YAY I can finally add a “True Scale Omegon” to my army, seeing as he was meant to be “only a bit taller than his Astartes”.

  • VanosOfManos

    One thing I do like, completely outside of any other concerns with the release, is how this unit does seem to fill an interesting niche in a Marine force. I like the idea of a slightly more durable tactical squad that sits somewhere between tacs and Terminators on the toughness scale while paying for it by being a bit less flexible in regards to wargear. I’ll have to see how they work out in Battleforged points to see how much use I’d have for them in my force, but I can see them being decent objective grabbers/holders if the scenario calls for it while being able to provide some long range support against light to mid-armored targets.

  • Inco Gnito

    Am I the only one who cringes really hard when they keep describing these new blokes as:”Heroes”?
    Like, can we all agree that Space Marines, Primarchs and even the Emperor were never heroes. They were murderers, killers and in the best case ruthless men who did questionable deeds which they saw justified.
    Something that I always enjoyed about 40K, while not something as deep as a world class novel, still displayed a depth that was very enjoyable for a sci-fi universe. Not that silly Star Wars “my space wizards are good, because their light swords are blue”-mentality (which I still like, but sometimes gets rather tedious).
    The fear that I have is that they are going to make it shallow and simple: white vs black, good vs evil.
    So when I see these new Ultra Ultramarines, not only do I see a terribly questionable inconsistency in the universe they created, but I see a simplification of fascinatingly complex moral spectrum (for a tabletop universe).
    But, hey, that is just my opinion

    • VanosOfManos

      I dunno. I think it’s very fair to think of the entire universe, and heck most of the Imperium, like that, but I’ve always thought that there were some heroes everywhere. That’s the most tragic part of the setting for me: the people who actually are heroes who, in the end, never matter because the crushing weight of everything else just makes their efforts all for naught. I’d imagine there’d be some heroic IG battalions and Marine chapters somewhere in the wide ranging Imperium of Man: they just don’t matter worth a speck of dirt in the long run.

      • Inco Gnito

        I agree with you on that. I remember the story of Icarael, a low preacher from the world of Salem Proctor. Salem Proctor had been shackled under the rule of a corrupt cardinal. Icarael, a pure and righteous man, whos’ words could move anyone to tears, lead a revolt against the treacherous cardinal and successfully overthrew the cardinal. Anyone who saw Icareal was taken in by his piety, his modesty and his faith. Truly, he was the prime example of what some might call a hero: Giving, not taking. Caring for his fellow man, not his honour.
        He was burned at the stake, after being imprisoned and tortured for 6 months by the Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov.
        Karamazov had claimed that Icarael was also corrupted and eventhough some of his kin demanded to see Karamazov stand answer for his action, he was never persecuted.
        And so, Icarael died in utter pain and agony, after having served the Emperor and mankind for as good as he could.
        On the other hand, what if he truly was corrupted? We will never know, I guess.

        • VanosOfManos

          That’s a good one, where’s it from? This is one of the reasons I love the Inquisition: there’s so many great stories involving them, and the fluff is loaded with stories like that. I’ve always liked the thought that even those who were meant to be the wardens against the darkness were people with bloody hands who did dark deeds and were feared by the people they were meant to be protecting. I actually like it when the fluff (and Black Library) follows a character who actually is more heroic than their brethern as it makes them really stand out to me. I love Eisenhorn, for example, and there’s no doubting that despite being a member of a bloody and vicious organization he has at least a semblance of a noble heart as seen in the way he treats those who serve under him. It helps make his descent through to Hereticus all the more powerful. Ciaphas Cain’s the same way for me: the commissar who actually cares.

          Part of me actually really wants to see GW make a whole part of the Armies of Man a full-blown heroic army JUST to see what some of the authors could do with that. Just seeing how already existing Marine chapters look askance at their battle brothers for their rites and tactics makes me imagine the strife we could see between heroic new Marines and guys like the Wolves or Dark Angels. I like the possibilities that could bring so I say MAKE the Primaris a beacon of heroic light, ’cause boy are they going to be in for a shock when they get out to the warzones.

          • Inco Gnito

            Love Ciaphas Cain: HERO OF THE IMPERIUM XD XD
            Pretty sure the guy has never ever done anything heroic on purpose.
            The story is from the Inquisition codex from… 3 editions ago? Not sure from when but an old Inquisition Codex, gotta look that up.
            Eisenhorn shows his motivation in the first chapter: “You might think killing thousands of innocents is evil, but to let thousands live means that millions will die.” … not a 100% quote but something along the lines.

            The notion of traditional Space Marines fighting these new Marines is the only thing that keeps me going right now. Or if these new beacons of heroic light will eventuell themselves stumble across horrible decisions that will turn them into hard, brutal killers again…
            Loads of potential here =)

    • generalchaos34

      They are heroes simply because they are fighting the darkness of chaos and the enroachment of harmful xenos. To the people of the Imperium they are heroes, since their entire life is on the verge of torture, heresy, and exterminatus from themselves not to mention all the horrors from beyond these guys are downright saints in comparison. Sure they are murderers, despots, and such, but when there there is nothing else…

      Besides, these guys might ACTUALLY be programmed to be good guys, like for real. That will cause a huge problem with the old guard of killers who will not enjoying the whiney goodytwo shoe narrative from their boss the big G.

      • Inco Gnito

        I agree with you and can see your point. Yet it seems to me that GW is taking more and more of an active interest in removing the horrible side of these “heroes”: The butchering of innocent, the suppression of the masses etc.
        What we are left with, is another set of generic “heroes” in the traditional, unquestionable sense, such as super-heroes and less in the propaganda sense.
        The same actually goes for the darkness of Chaos. I remember reading about Chaos and genuinly thinking it was terrifying: This unstoppable force of nature, this deeply personal evil that fed of us as living beings and no matter how hard you tried, you were doomed to sheltering this evil because it was part of you. Chaos used to be pretty scary. Truly evil, not just evil for the sake of evil, but justified. GW seems to phase that out more and more and turning Chaos more into these comic book villains that can’t hold their candle when compared to Skeletor or Megatron.
        Which begs the question: With these mediocre bad guys, what justifys the Imperium being evil themselves?

        • Aura1

          The grim darkness seems to live on in the heads of Black Library authors far more than the lore/rule book writers. But adding moral complexity, emotions, warmth, conflicted impulses and the like are what authors do. Codex authors are mostly about sales pitches – hence why everything described in Codexes is ‘the promised dawn of hope/the blackest vilest villain that ever lived’ whereas the novels aren’t afraid to point out the Emperor was a dictatorial mass murderer (but a lot better than the other dictatorial mass murderers if you look very closely)

        • ZeeLobby

          What you perfectly described is the departure of grim dark from the 40K universe. It is pretty sad to watch it go. I know I’ll miss it.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      They are heroes, to the Imperium.

      • Inco Gnito

        True but we ain’t part of the Imperium and I do hope that they will actually show their bad side too

    • Munn

      Heroism is relative.

    • AircoolUK

      I dunno, Crimson Fists took care (as best they could) of Rynn’s World. I’m pretty sure they’re heroes to the people of that planet.

      Space Marines used to be pretty inhuman; just space monks that spent all their time training, meditating or doing something ‘religious’.

      It was only as the fluff progressed that they gained personalities and character flaws.

      I guess your internal 40K lore begins whenever you picked up the game. Mine goes all the way back to Rogue Trader where things such as the Horus Heresy didn’t exist.

      Hero is simply a matter of perspective.

      • Inco Gnito

        I am kinda torn between liking and disliking Rogue Trader.
        I did not start with it, so I might have a skewered perspective.
        But there were certainly things I liked alot:
        -The Emperor being just some old rotting corpse on a throne, not the actual maybe-god he is now. Just some dude… no explanation or anything… just worship him, alright!
        – Space Marines being recruted from the worst of the scum from Imperium of Man.
        – The geniune horror of Chaos (Chaos came 2nd edition I believe) and the harshness of the Imperium, they actually oppressed people

        Then again there were things that I didn’t like:
        – It was just … too silly for me
        – Punk Orks…
        – Too much copy&paste of known sci-fi universes of the time. Outter worlds attempting to break free from the core worlds.
        – Space Marines basically being Rasczak’s Roughnecks

        Still, there was something in that era of 40k/Rogue Trader that I just simply… miss these days… a certain depth…

    • TenDM

      I think that’s sort of the point. 40k twisted concept of ‘heroes’ until it meant xenophobic fanatics. The heroes of the 41st millennium are monsters.
      These new Marines were built with nothing but genocide and conquest in mind, yet in the eyes of the Impreium they are the great new heroes here to save the universe and restore the Imperium to it’s former glory.

      • Inco Gnito

        As an outsider I would still be happy to see these twisted heroes being exactly that twisted. Like, gimme a scene were they cut down innocent men because they refuse to fight (which has been a featured story in a Codex before)

    • luke-vdv

      I certainly don’t want to see things simplified, but I have always seen it as good vs. evil. In a time where Chaos, Orks, Necrons and Tyranids exist the Imperium is 100% the good guys while those mentioned are the bad guys.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        that is to misunderstand the core idea of the franchise. There are no good guys. Thats the point.

        • luke-vdv

          Well I think that all depends on your idea of good and bad. I don’t see a repressive regime like the Imperium as bad. For a human like me they are the good guys. They are the ones defending humanity and fighting chaos and aliens that want to destroy order. If that means harvesting psykers and conscripting millions then so be it if that’s what it takes.

          I know that 40k is supposed to be about a universe where there are no good guys, but as an individual I see the Imperium as good guys.
          I also see the Tau as good guys despite their join or die mentality and occasional sterilisation programme.

          We just think differently.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      that seems like a fair analysis. They have really done away with the Grim-Dark with the Fall of Cadia campaign. They have in fact gutted the whole feel of the franchise.

    • Evil Otto

      They’re more like heroes in the classical sense, like Hercules. They can be murdering bastards, but they accomplish great things.

      • GnomesForge

        Exactly what’s wrong with them. Character like Hercules need a totally different setting, just by chance I’m sure, like AoS. See young boys like super heroes which are really big right now. But 40k was a much too deep and mature game as most grim dark settings are. So it was time to Clash of the Titans this biotch up with some heroic deus ex machina. Some of us have outgrown the phase when super heroes solve all problems and therefore need to be the center of every fictional universe in existence.

        • Evil Otto

          Aargh. Do you have to dispute EVERYTHING I WRITE? I didn’t even say that Herc would fit in in the setting, just that 40k heroes were more like the heroes of old… they weren’t good people. In the modern era we tend to think of heroes as noble and moral. They weren’t in the past. That’s it. That’s as far as the comparison goes. If you think the teacher-murdering, wife-killing, child-killing drunk Hercules would fit into AoS you might want to read up on the guy. He was a classical hero, but he wasn’t good.

          I’m tired of your “I know better than you do” attitude, sneering contempt for people who don’t agree with you, and nitpicking. And the idea that the 40k universe was “deep and mature” isn’t true.

          Look… take it up with someone who cares. If you want to play, play. If you don’t want to play, don’t. Me, I’m tired of reading your rants. Goodbye.

          • Inco Gnito

            Guys, guys. No need to be at each others throat. Yeah we all have a different opinion of how the 40K universe looks like:

            @Evil_Otto:disqus – I agree with you on the terminology of traditional heroes. The only problem I have is that I want to see their bad side. I mean it is just a fear I have and not even yet confirmed but I am scared that they present these new Space Marines to us as these near perfect beings and that worries me. They have done so with Guilliman (WWWAAAAARRRRRDDDDDDDD!!!!) and I just don’t think it fits.

            @christopherwitecki:disqus – Dito with you too, I feel like Marvel might have been a bit too successfull and now GW wants some of that sweet sweet Avengers-pie =(

            Frankly, I don’t know why you two are at each other… not really like you said anything contradictory…

          • GnomesForge

            Cry me a river. Don’t want a debate don’t write essays on a public forum. Poorly written ones especially.

    • Holger Wurst

      So…. where in the TEASER and ADVERTISEMENT does it say it will be this bland? So far, no faction GW created has a clean ethical reputation, so why should the primaris marines be that exception to the rule. And: All descriptions of factions GW publishes are purely propagandistic and from the respective faction’s point of view. So, of course the Primaris will be heroes. Until the other perspectives come into play. I’m quite sure they will be probably even less scrupulous than normal marines when it comes to weighing civil lives against military success. Also: just my opinion 🙂

      • Inco Gnito

        I hope you are right. I guess I am being a bit too pesimistic. It feels like we are about to take a leap of faith and GW keeps saying:”Trust us, you going to love it!” Unfortunately GW has had a 5 year track record that doesn’t really make them trustworthy… eventhough they have been much better recently.
        But really I am with you, just worried =)

    • Lion El’ Jonson

      In an Empire were heroism is measured in how many worlds you subjugate or killing xenos till they are extinct, in the name of the God Emperor, the spacemarines are definately heroes.

      The whole Imperium is old world values flung into the future.

  • AnomanderRake

    So yeah. “Age of Screw You All, we’re only ever going to give updates/new releases to this list of new armies, your old stuff is now obsolete trash MUAHAHAHAHAHA! 40,000 edition”, coming soon to a game store near you!

  • BaronSnakPak

    As an Ultra player, I’m pumped for these. They look awesome.

    • Orangecoke

      Yep, they do – looking forward to painting these!

  • Mr.psyker

    37 reasons why Kurt Russell is better than Primaris Marines. https://youtu.be/NU99J6VRwgE

    • Matthew Pomeroy

      you forgot the most important one…HE IS JACK BURTON!

  • markdawg

    So let me get this straight. We have new marines that are bigger have cooler armor they are stronger shoot better and are way tougher to kill? They are also getting vehicles as well!

    The Nerd rage is going to be strong! I can’t wait to see a guy with his awesomely painted SM army rock up to the table and get stomped by the bigger and better SM. People are going to be so mad do your remember how much people freaked out of 32mil bases..LOL

    If I had a SM I would quit 40k and play HH quite honestly this is an absolute joke!

    Here come the GW fan boi’s “In the FAQ it says you don’t have to use them”

    Yeah who is going to want to play with small old and busted when you can play with bigger better stronger tougher. The thought that people are just going to stick to their old armies is a joke.

    GW just invalidated your army and if you don’t believe that you are a sucker!

    I can’t wait for PrimarisSM Terminators that will smash your normal chapter maters head into red mist!

    The new GW has taken a page out of the old GW’s hand book and boosted the power level to 9000!

    At least you guys can quit and play HH.

    • BaronSnakPak

      I like how you can claim this without knowing ANYTHING about their points and the rest of their units, or even the points and pros/cons of standard marines.

      “Yeah who is going to want to play with small old and busted when you can play with bigger better stronger tougher. The thought that people are just going to stick to their old armies is a joke.”
      You know that not everyone runs out and buys every new model and every army, right? Some people have a finite budget and put a ton of time and effort into their army and enjoy sticking with them.

      Good job on the hyperbole, top notch stuff.

      • frank

        funny too cuz how else u gunna get people to pay 90$ for 5 marines?

      • markdawg

        Sure they’ll enjoy sticking to them when the get smashed by bigger cooler looking better SM. That wont sting at all. I’m sure the new units and vehicles they get won’t be better in every way also.

        • BaronSnakPak

          Typical “new GW announcement, it’s the end of the hobby as we know it!” rhetoric. Do you live in a bubble where you only play against the same person, and they happen to be a power gamer? You still don’t know anything about the points of these units, OR the original marines.

          What we do know is that they can only have 5 per squad, and don’t have special and heavy weapons. Regular tac marines have 10 per squad with access to heavy and special weapons that can split fire and do a ton of damage.

          I bet you were arguing about how Deathwatch Marines would invalidate every marine player’s armies when they were announced, huh?

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            ask a Tomb Kings player how these things pan out…

          • BaronSnakPak

            I would if the comparison was applicable to this discussion. Ask a TK player how fun it is to have one of the most powerful armies in AoS.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            yeah right, they are loving not being able to buy any minis!

          • Evil Otto

            The thing is, GW is a business. They exist to make a profit by selling toy soldiers. If the Tomb Kings (who I liked) had sold they would have been ported over to AoS in some manner and new models would be available. GW was known to cancel lines when they sold poorly even before AoS, and TK got the axe.

          • GnomesForge

            The thing is, every game company is a business. Why do people feel the need to defend GW like an over protective mother? It’s so cringey. Yeah they’re a business with millions at their disposal. I expect them to do better as a result not give them a pass for stuff that a small time mini maker would never get away with.

          • BaronSnakPak

            If they already have a TK army, then why would they need to? And again, what does discontinuing TK in AoS have to do with adding new marines in 40K? I’d say maybe it’s similar if they made brand new TK minis and THEN discontinued the entire army, but they didn’t. Also, you’re referring to the actions of the previous CEO and dismissing all of the positive changes GW has made since.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Wow, you ARE dumb.

          • BaronSnakPak

            Epic rebuttal. You make a comparison with zero bearing on the current situation and discussion, I present numerous counters, then you call me dumb. High quality stuff here.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I just can’t be @rsed arguing with the willfully abstruse.

          • BaronSnakPak

            No, you can’t be @rsed to come up with a compelling reason as to why or how a discontinued army from 2 years ago, in a completely different game, has ANY bearing on a discussion about new Marine minis being released and their effect on the old Marine minis viability on the table top.

            So instead of talking about something regarding this discussion, you decide to insult me, further driving home the point that you didn’t have a leg to stand on in this conversation.

            http://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder317/64195317.jpg

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            OK, so the death of WHFB armies such as Brets and TK is illustrative of how GW treats its players. Thats why they are exemplary useful illustrations when discussing the replacement of normal marines with Bigmarines.

            Why might a TK player want to buy a mini? Well maybe they just want to complete their collection or expand a unit. Also legacy rules are hardly the same as being a supported army. There will never be any updates, their plot will never advance, no new rules, no new models.

            Soon Marine players who don’t want to play Bigmarines will be in the same boat. Ask someone who played Squats, Space Slann, Kroot Mercenaries, Zoats, Witch-hunters, Exodites etc. Now some of the old armies have been re-introduced (Harlequins, Genecult) but that seems unlikely for the small-marines.

            I am sorry I had to say all this, because it is, to be honest, blindingly obvious what I meant from my comments above and pointless really typing it out. But hey ho, you insisted.

          • BaronSnakPak

            Indicative of how the old CEO treated it’s players.

            TK and Brets were simply not selling. Marines, on the other hand, are GWs bread winners. It’s reaching of a whole new level if you think the introduction of these marines spells the end of classic marines. The ebay market thats flooded with them will ensure their circulation for a very long time, even if GW decided to pull the plug on them (which is again ridiculous). And again, Numarines are an ADDITION to SM armies, not a replacement. There’s a reason why their datasheet isn’t called “tactical squad” and has differences to their gameplay capabilities.

            Comparing the profitability, popularity, and longevity of Marines to TK is a laugh. It would be business suicide to gut their biggest group of customers. Seriously, some of you guys on here will find ANY reason to claim that the sky is falling whenever GW does something.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Some of us have seen how they have acted for 30 years. Of course the models circulate on Ebay, that is why the range is being slowly replaced. You may say they will be supported, but when the Bigmarines are better in every way and there are no new rules or kits for the old ones then they will drop out of use. Who will handicap themselves by using the old ones?

            Plus they have been discontinued in one important way: in the fluff. They were the badasses, now they are second best. Uncool.

          • BaronSnakPak

            If you know how they’ve acted the last 30 years then you should know that updating SM minis and new armor marks is NOT a new practice, or the end of the world for SM. People still play with RT Marines, casually and at tournaments.

            To assume this update will invalidate everything that came before it is just plain silly and shortsighted.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            this isn’t an update to an existing line, this is a new line. Think how Sigmarines are an ‘update’ for Empire.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      I have to say I agree with your analysis.

      I’ve had a chance now to think about this release, and I’ve teased out what I reckon are my problems with it.

      Firstly, and most importantly, it seems to me that since Fall of Cadia, Games Workshop have completely missed the point of their own franchise, and undermined its essence. In the GrimDark world of the Imperium, there isn’t supposed to be hope, and there isn’t supposed to be progress, yet the events of Fall of Cadia and these Primaris Marines embody exactly that.

      In fact the whole joy of the setting was the Gothic slow-motion collapse of The Imperium, the loss of hope and the miring of potential progress through the clinging to misunderstood ritual and veneration of the past. How much more satisfying to the imagination was this grimdark narrative, over the usual hopeful shininess of much other future fiction? Having high technology, but forgetting how to make it, really was a brilliant device allowing barbaric and religious attitudes to coexist with high tech weapons, spaceships etc.

      I guess the rot set in with Centurions, these special outfits that somehow had been around for 10K years with no-one knowing. The sudden reveal of grav guns then further added to this undermining both of feeling and of internal logic. Now GW have really jumped the shark and properly destroyed the feel of the franchise.

      I doubt this will affect GW’s profits, so they won’t judge it a problem, but it will do an ineffable damage, killing the continuity and really cutting out the heart of the Grimdark.

      Secondly the Space Marines, the noble warrior monks, elite of the elite, who have defended the Imperium for 10K years, are now rendered instantly into a second rate force. To some degree the release of the Custodes from their duties guarding the Golden Throne already achieved this, but they were rarely seen on the tabletop. Now the uber-marines are here, who will want to collect the old little marines?

      Although the FAQ is at pains to say we can carry on using them, that they are still important, blah blah blah, what your FAQ can’t change is that the FEEL of the old Space Marines has now been changed, permanently, for all time, and even retrospectively to some degree. Who will want to play 30K knowing that these superhuman warriors, despite their efforts, will be replaced eventually by taller, cooler versions…

      Oh well. The youngsters will lap it up, just as they seem to like Sigmarines. Some of those few like me who are really attached to the fluff and have a 30+ year history with the setting will drift away to other things as many did after the similar reckless destruction of the WHFB setting. GW will grind on, the money mill will turn, but somewhere, quietly, a beautiful Grimdark light will flicker and slowly go out.

      • Evil Otto

        Gotta disagree. First, there’s still plenty of grimdark in the setting, overwhelming amounts. But the 40K universe was stagnant… and I’m not talking about the 10K-year-old rotting carcass of the Imperium. GW couldn’t simply put out another edition of 40K with the same story that’s been in stasis since 2nd edition. They needed to shake things up, and they have. It gives them an opportunity to create new armies, shake up existing ones, and sell more models. And GW is a business.

        The Imperium has been through dark times before, and every time hope emerged. During the Age of Apostasy the government nearly collapsed completely, systems were on their own, and all looked doomed. And then Sebastian Thor came along. New fighting forces were organized in the aftermath (the Sisters of Battle).

        Personally, as I’ve gotten older I’ve grown bored with grimdark. Nurgle help me, I’ve actually gotten to like the AoS storyline (though the world needs a lot of work… like, some actual detail). I like the “not this time” attitude of Sigmar and Friends… this time chaos isn’t going to win an inevitable victory. I enjoyed reading Gathering Storm 3 (after too many pages of battle descriptions) when RB decided that “OK, the chaos worshipers are going down this time.” It won’t work out like that, of course, because conflict drives the whole storyline, but it’s nice to see the Imperium getting its act together and taking the fight to the enemy for the first time in millennia.

        • Holger Wurst

          Total agreement with this

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          I’m going to say this again, its a setting, not a story, so by definition it couldn’t be ‘stagnant’ because settings don’t change, by definition.

          If GW have changed the 40K world from a setting to a story, then that is one more (risky) thing they have done which goes against the core of the franchise.

          • Evil Otto

            What? Settings change all the time. The Old World was a setting, and it ended. The Star Wars galaxy is a setting, and it changes as stories are made. GW has made changes before, both minor and major. Abbadon’s 13th Black Crusade. Armageddon being invaded twice. New Hive Fleets invading. There is no cut-and-dried line between setting and story, they interact with each other. The setting is where the story takes place. And GW is advancing the story, which changes the setting. They hadn’t done anything of this scale before… Abby’s 13th did little to affect the rest of the galaxy. Armageddon was just one world, albeit an important one. Edition after edition had few changes in the fluff. I still have my old rulebooks, and the 3rd ed. fluff is little changed from the 7th. In other words, it was stagnant.

            And Games Workshop are the ones who decide what the core of the franchise is. The 40k universe isn’t one designed by one person, it’s created by a committee working for a corporation trying to sell toy soldiers. You may view this as a risky move, and you may be right, but the company apparently decided that putting out yet another rule book with the same little-changing fluff as we’ve been seeing for over 20 years wasn’t going to cut it anymore.

          • GnomesForge

            Haha no, settings do not progress. When they do that’s when they are left behind for something new and unrecognizable. Let’s say I want to play a game about ancient Rome. That’s it, just Rome and the company doing the game suddenly starts phasing out Romans for Goths. It’s no longer the same setting. The setting was Late Roman, now it’s Dark Ages. Totally different feel. If you invested thousands to play in a Roman setting, the chipper defense of the GW fanboys wouldn’t really make you want to sell it all of and go dark ages?

            Also the setting was fine and would have been fine. It spawned the Dawn of war games and NYT best selling Horus Heresy books, all within the proper bounds of the established setting. The Milennials screaming for their super hero fix would have grown out of it and a classic setting could have been preserved. Oh well, next year’s super duper pooper Marines will be even better than Primaries Marines!

            Whose looking forward to secundus Marines? So much better than the original 20 legions.

          • Evil Otto

            So let me get this straight… settings don’t progress… except when they do?

            If you don’t like the way the current 40k setting is progressing then that’s a different matter. Labeling people who disagree as GW “fanboys” is just a dull insult. GW is still going to have Horus Heresy, and Dawn of War isn’t going anywhere (assuming it sells well, something I haven’t checked). There’s nothing “unrecognizable” about the 8th ed storyline. It’s an advancement. You may not like it, but it’s an advancement.

            What’s ironic is that opyour argument is the same as we heard when the Old World ended. Except AoS is selling far better than Warhammer did. This goes back to my argument… GW exists to make a profit, and a stagnant, never-changing storyline doesn’t help that happen. Now they get to sell bigger marines, new models, and make money. If they’re wrong they’re wrong, and it wouldn’t be the first time. Maybe all of the true fans will abandon 40k… but I doubt it.

          • GnomesForge

            Sorry not straight, you are confusing real history with the boundaries placed on games Time progress. Settings are periods of time and space picked out of that neverending flow and given defined boundaries so that one can explore a certain culture or set of events. This is especially important in a game where the buy in is many hours and thousands of dollars. If a game is advertised as Roman themed and then suddenly they shift it to past the fall of the Roman Empire, it’s no longer the same setting. Us in real life it’s just a seamless set of events with arbitrary boundaries but for a game with a durable time expensive base product it means a change of setting. Which is what they want, more ten year olds, more heroes, more disposable characters and deus ex machina like all the time. You like that lame sauce, that’s great but just own that. Say I just like the new setting better as opposed to trying to twist a games setting into something much more fluid than it is.

            As for the old GW is there to make a profit. So what? Every company is. I expect good product for good service. It’s an equal partnership. This New Coke Marines as a sleight of hand to phase out old ranges and simultaneously change the theme from grim dark to a heroic epic doesn’t cut the mustard.

          • Evil Otto

            We aren’t talking about real history. 40k is a fictional universe, so by definition we’re talking fiction. Your use of a Roman game as an example doesn’t work, because it IS the same setting, and that setting is real history. A setting is not what you say. The 40k universe is the same setting whether it’s the Horus Heresy or the Gathering Storm. Nobody at GW is requiring you to play games set post-GS. This isn’t a video game where you’re locked in to playing the game they want. Your models are still good. You don’t even have to buy the new rulebooks.

            Look, I get that you don’t like the changes. That’s your prerogative, and I’m rapidly growing bored with the “they’re a-changin’ our GAME!!!” complaints. You don’t have to buy it. You don’t have to play it. But the idea that settings don’t change, that they don’t progress is simply not based on fact. They do. Virtually all settings change, and GW has decided to change theirs. There is no “so what” about it, because companies that don’t make profits don’t stay in business. It’s not a partnership, it’s a trade. They sell you toy soldiers for your money, and rules to use them. They don’t owe you or me anything beyond that, and you have the power to quit buying at any time.

            Whether you think the new fluff is “weak sauce,” whether you think anyone defending GW is a “fanboy” is irrelevant. But it’s much more fun to complain, isn’t it? Oh, if only GW would hire you to write for them…

          • Holger Wurst

            Correct for the overall explanation but I’m afraid totally wrong with the example. It’s not a change of setting. See, I said it just like you did. The Roman Empire-example is not an example but a strawman argument to justify you not even don’t like but obviously hate the change coming. And that’s about all. It has nothing to do with “customer/company partnership” or anything else. It’s not a change to heroic epic nor is it a phase out of old ranges.

      • Holger Wurst

        “Firstly, and most importantly, it seems to me that since Fall of Cadia, Games Workshop have completely missed the point of their own franchise, and undermined its essence. In the GrimDark world of the Imperium, there isn’t supposed to be hope, and there isn’t supposed to be progress, yet the events of Fall of Cadia and these Primaris Marines embody exactly that.
        In fact the whole joy of the setting was the Gothic slow-motion collapse of The Imperium, the loss of hope and the miring of potential progress through the clinging to misunderstood ritual and veneration of the past.”

        Well, that’s like, your opinion, Sir. Others – like me – rather got bored with the “always on the edge, but never changing”-stuff – because there was no slow-motion collapse, it was only a stasis collapse.
        For example for me the spotlight was on the fighting humans (IG, SoB, GK, SM, aso) that instead of accepting this supposed “inevitable” never gave up hope and kept on fighting. Under a very flawed morale and almost non-existing ethics. But still with hope of enduring as a whole. That’s what fascinated me. So for me, GW didn’t miss their franchise. Am I and the likes of me not as attached to fluff as you? Maybe because I have only 20 years of history with 40k? Especially the last part of your comment sounds quite a bit condescending.

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          its a setting, not a story.

          • Holger Wurst

            And this changes what exactly? I can see no change of the setting per se just because of the return of RG and the Primaris Marines. So far I only see your interpretation, nothing else.
            Edit: found it below…

    • Derek Lee

      Right now, I’m skeptical. They look shiny but aren’t tougher besides the +1W. They have 30″ range and AP:-1, but is their armor better? They may have killer synergy with chapter tactics or get a killer new plasma gun, but are they any better at assault than tactical marines(+1A, woo)?

      They seem they are better than regular marines at the same proportion that regular marines are better than guardsman. A lot better in fluff, but on paper it’s only a 15% to 33% increase in stats. +1 A & W, but same S, T, and 3+ save. These are “marginal marines” not the Custodes I’m looking forward to using.

  • plasticvicar

    CORAX DID IT FIRST

    (Till Alpha Legion messed it all up, seriously guys all Guilliman did this time was not let Alpha Legion in the building, fluffy as f*ck)

    • GnomesForge

      No he didn’t. Not the same thing. Read the lore. Respect the lore. Don’t be like GW.

  • sonny2dap .

    Can someone clarify are these like full on replacements or will these act like an augmenting force?

    • Nilok

      These are a new type of Space Marine that existing Space Marine armies can add, or you can build an entire army from them and their kin.

      • sonny2dap .

        I’ll wait to see rules before passing judgement.

  • Bodzio90210

    They looks like power rangers. I’m don’t even need them in my Blood Angels army.

  • Chet Atkinson

    They could do with a new Land Raider

  • Ronin

    I think I would have preferred them just say they’re getting a new suit of armor rather than a whole new sub species of astartes. I would have been way easier to justify them into my army. Alternatively, I can just go with that.

  • Dennis J. Pechavar

    Team fist bump…yeah that sucked.

  • luke-vdv

    – Tyranids and Orks aren’t purposefully evil, but they still are.
    – Necrons used to be evil in the old fluff, but obviously now they have been given a more “relateable” backstory and some semblance of emotion.
    – This is where you completely lost me. Chaos are evil and there’s no two ways about it. You don’t have to defend your like of a wholly evil faction by trying to say they aren’t evil. I don’t care that they are evil, but like their Old World counterparts they are bad guys through and through.