40K Community: Chaos Legions Blueprint?

Chaos-Legions-fandex

Take a good look at this ruleset and tell us if it would satisfy your need for Chaos Space Marines Legion rules:

via WarFo (French Warhammer Forum)

A group of dedicated Chaos Space Marine gamers have put together an pretty solid codex supplement allowing you to field all eight of hte Traitor Legions in games of Warhammer 40,000.  The Homebrew codex supplement sits atop the existing CSM codex and provides Warlord Traits, Relics, and Legion special rules for the:

  • Emperor’s Children
  • Iron Warriors
  • Night Lords
  • World Eaters
  • Death Guard
  • Thousand Sons
  • Word Bearers
  • Alpha Legion

Chaos Legions Supplement (pdf)

Having produced several in depth homebrew campaigns and codices long ago, I quite like this one.  It has a simple “light touch” approach to the issue of Chaos Legions and doesn’t completely reinvent the CSM codex to do so.

 

Take a look and give us your thoughts. Here are some questions to get you started:

  • Do you agree or disagree with the fundamental approach the Legion Rules?
  • Are they Properly balanced?
  • Are they in character for the Legions?
  • Should the Black Legion be left out, or get thier own special rules as well?
  • Did the rules do a good  job of integrating the fluff and Horus Heresy rules where they were used?
  • Would you feel comfortable giving them a test on the tabletop with your friends?

~ Have fun, and give a shout out to the folks over in France at WarFo who put this together for the community.

  • McGibs

    This thing is riddled with more spelling errors and confusingly worded rules than even GW stuff. For something that’s trying to fix the recognized shoddiness of the source material, these rules are just as sloppy, there’s just more of them now.

    • Sebastien Bazinet

      Was produced by French gamers and from experience they have a pretty bad grasp of english. It probably just need a native english speaker or at least someone not from France to re-translate it from the original in french.

      • arthfael

        Hey, I’m French!… but yeah, you’re right…
        Also, “it needs”.

    • Zingbaby

      Yeah I wanted this be good – but it’s terribly flawed.

      • Shiwan8

        “…To be good”….

      • Severius_Tolluck

        I see what you did there!

    • McGibs

      Nothing against the creators for their efforts, but if a fanmade ruleset wants to find footing in the community at large, a certain level of polish and tightness are very important to be respected. Otherwise it’s just comes off as another amateur throwaway.

      For example, there’s a reason why the Herald’s of Ruin Killteam rules have gotten quite popular. They are very good rules, yes, but they’re also presented in a very clean and well written fashion comparable to a professionally made ruleset. That goes a long way to establishing legitimacy.

      • Yann bartholin

        I can share the original text file is somebody is motivated to help us.I’m fixing most obvious errors and mistakes right now, however i’ll miss a lot.

        • E65

          Thank you and the other guys for a great effort. Well done.

        • Łukasz Groszkowski

          I’d like to contribute. I may be no native speaker, but I think I can be of help. Have you considered using git or other source code repository for cooperation?

          • Yann bartholin

            nope, we just put the rules in english on the fly to get first feedback, i’ve tried to correct at most in the second version, i’ve posted the link above.

    • Brian Griffith

      I think this was originally in French and translated. Likely where most of the errors come from.

    • Theik

      I can’t agree more on this one. I literally made it to the second page of Emperor’s Children before I just scratched my head and tossed the thing into the bin because it comes across like it was written by a 7 year old.

    • E65

      Look where it is from mate! FRENCH Warhammer Forum. Let us all see how good your French language skills are?

    • Muninwing

      if spelling errors were your takeaway, you kinda missed the point…

  • Id personally just stick with the HH legion rules if I had to make a choice. Helldrake aside its got more to offer in HH.

  • Shiwan8

    Very cool and still so very weak. Nothing that could touch present Tau or eldar. It also does not address the real problems of the codex, which is the CSM tax. This is ok if you play against AM or nids only. Other than that it’s very underpowered.

  • Yann bartholin

    Correction and spelling is ongoing, but we’ll be glad to get help, from experienced gamers.
    We’ll add formations soon for each legion.

    • irvinil

      Pourquoi l’écrire en Anglais ce Codex?
      Les français ne sont pas assez expérimentés àWH40K pour faire office de testeurs efficaces?

      • Yann bartholin

        il existe en français…C’est juste pour le partager, il a un post dédié sur le Warfo.

    • Muninwing

      formations might have been a better route from the beginning…

      • E65

        Eff the formations! They fix nothing and are just a marketing gateway for GW to sell you more plastic crack.

        • Muninwing

          someone does not like change…

          formations used properly are a great alternative to the old FOC…

          it’s not unlike the longstanding tradition of non-compliant SM chapters having different rules, only they are now able to best show their structures instead of being forced into a poorly-fitting external structure.

          if i’m playing enough points, why should i be restricted to 6 Deathwing squads? because someone else thinks of them as “troops” when using the old model?

      • Yann bartholin

        Yes of course, but we tried this approach and for example with formations about iron warriors, some wanted basilisk formations, others havocs, others predators, others dreadnoughts only etc…It was a mess so we decided to make army rules first, and formations after that.

    • Felixander

      Mon nom est Owen et je enseigner Middle School aux Etats-Unis d’Amérique . Si vous souhaitez que je peux vous aider à écrire correctement certaines des pages de votre Chaos Codex à l’anglais . Si vous voulez de l’aide , écrivez-moi à obrinser @ gmail . com
      Je ne parle pas français mais je dois Google Translate

  • Brian Griffith

    You can’t really just port units from Heresy into the stock CSM list. That’s the biggest problem I see with it. A lot of Heresy units reference rules that 40k units don’t have, like the Legiones Astartes rule and its variants.

    • Yann bartholin

      yes we are trying to figure it out, as Samus and other units already have 40k rules, and simply lose few things.

    • Well, to honest, thats one of the things where I think it should indeed be the case, as in oposition to the loyalists, these guys have been around since just that. That would make for some truly fluffy rules, like relic weapons/armours/vehicles etc.

      • Brian Griffith

        Well what I’m referring to here is that a number of the special units/rules from the Heresy only act upon things that have the Legiones Astartes rule, or a specific legion’s variant of it like Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers).

        Seeing as these ported “relic” units are being moved into an environment in which no other units have the Legiones Astartes rule or any of its variants, they effectively get some of their special rules nerfed.

        • Yann bartholin

          yes we try to integrate few legiones astartes rules to 40k
          -For the Redbutchers incarnate violence is part of the WE special rules, for blood lust and blood madness they are not that important for WE.
          -For the future grave warden’s integration, Sons of barbarus, power scythes and chem munitions USR are parts of the Legion rule.
          -for the Emperor’s children it’s a bit hard as they loose cool stuff maybe we’ll add new rules later.
          -For the night lords “night vision” and “from the shadow” are part of the legion special rules
          -For the word bearers the only drawback is for Zardu layak who loose few rules on the process but gain wondeful buff by the legion special rule he gets two power free and can choose two others, mhara gal and gal vorbak are fully playable.
          -For the Alpha Legion “subterfuge” & “signal corruption ” special rules are parts of the legion rules

          Sorry for my bad english.

          • E65

            Your English is better than my French.

  • Brian Griffith

    “I am Alpharius” is a neat idea, but for it to really work effectively it’d have to cancel out the rule that says unit champions must always issue challenges when able.

    • Yann bartholin

      Yes of course…Thx

  • Secundum

    Wow…It appears the fanbase CAN write worse rules than Geedubs!

  • Yarrmageddon

    No need for that. Going back to 3rd Edition Codex 🙂

  • Captain Raptor

    Translation issues aside, I quite like it. Fluffy and far better than anything CSM that GW has released in a decade. That being said I’ll probably stick with the 30k legion rules as they work from a better starting point.

  • JoeofDoom

    I can’t download it from that website.

  • E65

    Can’t agree more. The dumbasses, der iz too manny’s’!

  • Muninwing

    meh. not really impressed. not much to distinguish them, past what extra freebies to hand them… not a lot of balance… some obvious favoritism.

    no. not every character in a Thousand Sons army can be a Lv 4 sorcerer.

    no, not every vehicle should get free upgrades when other bonuses come in.

    had they decided to go with another approach, maybe…
    – chapter tactics equivalent
    – marks equivalent
    – formation grants extra boon

    but no, it’s basically a free-for-all.

    • Yann bartholin

      For the thousand sons, they are supposed to be the best psykers in the galaxy … Compare Ahriman to the young Tigurius, and you know how it’s weird (lol) to be a thousand son player in 40k, but ok for the limitation, only one psyker LVL4 per thousand sons army.

      Dozer blade is not very game changer, but we’ll take that in consideration.
      -Army rules are more like rules from CS and BL expansions than Chapter tactics, but sometimes we only put chapter tactics from loyalist … Raven guard for example, or Sentinels of Terra.
      -On your topic about “everything free”, don’t you think CSM players pay already a lot for crap units , And sell a kidney for just a correct unit (Thousand sons). So yes we choose a lot of freebies as this codex is the worst and the weakest.

      • Muninwing

        it’s good to see your process and logic.

        perhaps… could you address points? what about reductions for “crap units” in order to make them instead worth their place? as an add-on to broken book, it’s going to be difficult to put it

        i’m still stuck on the Psyker thing… both from a balance point of view and a functional one.
        ahriman, maybe eldarad, maybe tigurius all make sense as Lv 4s (i’d argue that they should be 3s who pay up to 4). having an army full of 3s better contextualized Ahriman’s 4 (being stronger than the rest).

        • Yann bartholin

          Yes i admit for the thousand sons it’s a bit too far(but i’m Fuc…. love them), we’ll tone down their mastery level. It’s important to get as many point of view as possible, the mastery level of the TS have already been pointed out.

    • Shiwan8

      You do realize that what you are saying right there makes sense only if we throw fluff in the wind and totally disregard the current power level. I mean, I do not disagree with you but since we can give free 4 levels of psychic powers to every single model in the army and would still fall short from Tau and Eldar power levels your critique sounds a lot like meaningless whining.

      • Muninwing

        i’d say the “still fall short of tau and eldar” is more meaningless whining than this.

        this is a supplement to the chaos book.

        it suffers from many of the same problems that chaos already undergoes.

        what really needs doing is that chaos — and every other book — needs to be built from the ground up with a competent points-system or other balancing metric in place.

        adding a whole bunch of extra stuff only makes it preferable to the generic chaos… when in reality they should both be equal. and they should be roughly in balance with the others.

        i understand that adding extras makes them perhaps equal to some books… but it does that at the expense of others. and that’s what i have a problem with.

        • Shiwan8

          If balance is meaningless then the “still fall short of tau and eldar” is meaningless whining. If balance is at least remotely important, it is not whining.

          So, you are saying that codex CSM does not need to be better, even though it’s pretty much auto lose, it does not need more power but a supplement that is on par with it.
          I disagree. There is no reason to do anything that either weakens or just alters CSM. It’s useless, meaningless, in vain and for nothing. Unless it makes CSM competitive it’s an automatic fail. There is simply no plausible reason what so ever to make something to a dead codex.

          • Muninwing

            ok, i think we’re actually on the same side here.

            C:CSM is borked.

            the solution to this is not to add legion rules that do not necessarily address the underlying breakage.

            then again, i think Tau/Eldar are borked too, for different reasons. and they should be “fixed” too.

            what i really want is not a separate tacked-on product that makes some very specific builds able to be played on par with the norm. i want the too-high brought down and the too-low fixed of their own accord. then add-ons should be at the mid-level of power, balanced with all the others (more or less)

            if GW was a company that took pride in its actual product… they’d have done this long ago, and they’d have “living document” FAQs that would change the points values as needed.

            but they do not.

          • Shiwan8

            100% agreeing with everything you said there. The thing is though, like you said it is, that GW does not really care about their product quality. It cares even less about it’s customers. This leads us to a situation where the underpowered will not be boosted and the over powered will not be balanced.

            This leads to a situation where we make our own codices and/or our own “supplements” that balance the underdogs to the level of the broken elite. Naturally we get to never use these against the “top dogs” who are too comfortable in their training wheels on to try to ride the proverbial bike without them.

            Actually, a lot of things outside codices have to change too for this game to be playable again. I dabled with this at some point but the list of rule changes was so long that it would never reach any success within tournament or otherwise competitive spirited circles. There were things like 1 IC limit within a squad that has to be from the same detachment, 5th edition transport rules, 6th edition monster rules, trictly cad and ad detachments only, sD making only d3+1 wounds/HP + penetration roll on a 2+ with no saves other than cover and then it went to codex specific alterations. I did not get it done but at that point nids were playable against the eldar, for example.
            But, as you and then I said, for the game to be in even an ok condition, everyone has to adjust to a change towards the common good…and I’m afraid that will not happen because some people just can not be bothered to have a balanced match.

  • eehaze

    CSM don’t need more special rules; they need reasonable point costs.

    • Yann bartholin

      this is GW job…So we are waiting for the next codex…

  • Shiwan8

    So, you are french, right?

    • Khornate 2589

      Mohawk.

      • Shiwan8

        While that is interesting, let me present a…”better” question. Are you competently literate in french?

        • Khornate 2589

          Yes.

          • Shiwan8

            Ok. Well, a very small percentage of the worlds population are actually literate in french. I’m not. I’m betting most here are not. If I’m not wrong, “go and read the original french text” is not really a solution.

            Just sayin’….

          • Khornate 2589

            WTF… Ever head about google translate ?

          • Shiwan8

            Yes, I know enough about that that I can without any margin of error state that it will create more problems and “lost in translation”-situations than reading the translations these guys made…that are fine btw.

            Google translator works on single words. Not anything bigger. Proof: “Yes, I know it enough so that I can no margin for error asserts its creative more problems than it solves .”

  • Yann bartholin

    For the legion specific wargear we tried it, and we stopped…Inferno bolt to all thousand sons weapons is OP, sonic weapons to all marines units is OP, in fact a lot of people refused to play against these armies…So we gave up! As it was just wishlisting.

  • Yann bartholin

    here is the latest version, i’ve tried my best to remove mistakes, this one will be better for you eyes.
    https://mega.nz/#!ukQRwbzS!X6I4xavJoPjM9Y5WwmMwlyD8zZMTQI8iTfBnGC1UcnA