Starting Age of Sigmar, Cheap and Easy Style!

 

AgeofSigmar-Khorne-1080

Hey everyone, Reecius here to talk about some easy and affordable ways to pick up Age of Sigmar!

As you can tell by my stream of articles about the game, I have the Age of Sigmar bug in a big way! The game–with some structure–is brilliant and such good fun. I had a chance to read the impending General’s Handbook (which you can pre-order through Frontline Gaming at a nice discount!) and I am even more excited for the game. It brings some of what we most wanted to see: structure and points! Nice one.

The cool thing is that you don’t have to use the points if you do not want to, it comes with tons of cool stuff like narrative campaigns and ladder campaigns but as a tournament lover, I am stoked for matched play! There’s so much more going on in this book, but we’ll cover that another day. For now, let’s talk about diving into the game!

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Crunching some numbers, I came to quickly see that you can make an army in Age of Sigmar for not too much money, which is awesome! The models are pricey but you really don’t need too many of them to make a 2,000pt army, which is what GW is presenting as the tournament standard. What this means is that the cost of entry is actually quite low, and you can get a force together with a relatively small investment in time, too. This is a quantum leap in improvement over the previous editions of Fantasy which required massive bricks of troops which were mega expensive and took ages to build and paint.

As I was writing up some lists, thinking about Warbands I’d like to put together, here’s one I came up with.

Slaves to Darkness 2,000pts

  • Godsworn Champions of Ruin Battalion 1,000pts
  • Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore
  • Daemon Prince
  • Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Chaos Steed
  • Chaos Knights x 5
  • Chaos Knights x 5
  • Ruinbringer Warband 1,000pts
  • Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount
  • Chaos Knights x 5
  • Chaos Knights x 5
  • Chaos Knights x 5
  • Chaos Gorebeast Chariots
  • Chaos Chariot
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31 models! That’s it, wow! Plus, everything is mounted so you have a cool cavalry themed army of super bad ass models. Every model in this army looks amazing. So, assembling and painting it will be a lot of fun. Also, it’s relatively cheap. $395 retail is not bad for an entire army. If you order it from Frontline Gaming, you can get it at $316 or $296.25 as a part of our new release specials.

If you really want to save some dough, you get 5 extra Chaos Knights in the above army so you can convert two of them into the Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Chaos Steed and the Chaos Lord on Daemonic Knight, bringing the total down $40 MSRP. You’re talking about an entire tournament army that looks bad ass and would be good on the tabletop, too for a very reasonable price.

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As for playing the army, it is fast, hits hard, has lots of powerful spells to call on and did I mention it looks amazing?! All those Chaos Knights, sooooo rad! Your two Battalions gives you two heroes to get magic items in the new General’s Handbook, and the Chaos Warband army benefits rock. You will get a ton of use out of them with this army.

The Battalions themselves offer a lot, as well. The ability to assault and deal mortal wounds in the Hero phase with the Ruinbringer Warband is awesome, and the Godsworn Champion likewise get extra attacks in the Hero Phase, maximizing this army’s melee punch. If you get that double turn while stuck in…good night!

The Daemon Prince with Slaneesh is awesome as it allows you to interrupt the flow in the melee phase, meaning you can attack with two units before your opponent gets one if its your turn. I really dig that. You have a wide variety of choices for your general, but I’d go with the Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount. The ability to buff a unit of Knights on the way in to melee is pretty awesome.

If you wanted to not go all cavalry, you could use the Start Collecting! Slaves to Darkness boxes to make a 2K army even cheaper! And those Chaos Warriors at 180pts for 10 are a very good deal for what you get.

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But that’s just one way to slice it. My friend Alex is in the process of making a Flesh Eater Court army (Zombies, Ghouls and such!). By taking advantage of some of the bundle deals, you can make an army for just a few hundred bucks that not only looks cool but is good on the tabletop, too! His total ticket for a 2,000pt army was only $220! Wow.

The tournament format for the game is going to be very accessible for these reasons. While you can make a bigger, more expensive army if you want to, you don’t have to. This means you can take the plunge into the game with a relatively small investment of time and money to see if you like it. If you do, branching out and collecting multiple Warbands with an awesome theme is relatively easy to do. For example, the Sylvaneth Warband I am baking only has 35 models and damn, those tree people are dead easy to paint and look incredible! I am already thinking about multiple Warbands to collect and model, haha. Those Orruk Bone Splitters look sooooo awesome! Might have to do that, too.

~What warbands are you thinking about collecting?

And as always, Frontline Gaming sells Games Workshop product at up to 25% off of retail, every day!

You can also pick up some cheap models in our Second Hand Shop. Some of these gems are quite rare, sometimes they’re fully painted!

secondhandshop

 

  • crcovar

    Another case of the article and the headline not matching up at all.

    Cheap and Easy way to start Age of Sigmar? Pick up some models and play open play games. Add in some battle plans and have fun.

    Doesn’t get much cheaper than the $33USD starter box.

    • Shiwan8

      Good luck going to play in tournaments with only that 33USD starter.

      • crcovar

        Looking at the lists that they generate and the people that seem to flock to them, I think I’ll manage just fine avoiding them.

        • Shiwan8

          It’s AoS. While this new book gives a legitimate reason for hope I’d still keep my distance to the game for the time being. Before I’m proven wring I have zero faith on the writers ability to make the game balanced.

          • Champildhir

            And because you want to avoid AoS, you entered and read and commented a post about it….

          • Shiwan8

            To know if I should continue to avoid it or not and to keep things honest, yes. Why is that wrong in your opinion? Do you not like the truth?

      • Drew

        But if you want to play any other of the half-dozen ways to play the game, then you should do just fine with any of the cheaper starter options available.

        • Shiwan8

          Sure. I just do not see people enjoying the basic game of “who ever has significantly more models to deploy is the winner”, or the matched play which is basically “take the faction that has the most durable units and win”, or the scenarios which are the basic game “with a twist that does not make it balanced”.

          What is left after those is the point system and preferrably it added to scenarios and “AoS FOC”…all of which are crap on themselves but together might just make AoS a real game.

          • crcovar

            matched play is the point system. I’d say I’m surprised you don’t know this, but based on your comments I doubt you’ve ever played much of AoS.

          • Shiwan8

            I’ve seen the new book once, I do not have a perfect memory.

            AoS is one of those games that is by default so flawed as it now is that one does not have to try it to know it’s crap. The fact that you can literally buy a victory in it is pretty much alone enough to make it useless steaming pile at the moment. The new book might change that.

            I do not have to taste sh!t to know that sh!t is sh!t. If you do then I’m sorry for you.

          • Frank Krifka

            ::rolls eyes::

          • Shiwan8

            And yet despite your mugness you could not conjure and argument that would at least challenge my description of the game. Apparently you think that I’m right but just do not have the guts to admit that. 😀

          • Frank Krifka

            Yeah that’s it. You’re about as right on AoS as you were on the Eldar: Craftworlds book. Namely your prediction the eldar would sweep every tournament and every other army would disappear and be replaced by Eldar players.

            Still waiting for that one to pan out….

            As to AoS, your like the guy on the street yelling about how the moon landing was a conspiracy and how Obama is a muslim cyborg sent back through time to take our guns. Some things are so outlandish theres no sense in construction an argument to refuse them. You can’t refute crazy with logic.

          • Shiwan8

            I am and I was, it happened the way I predicted it (which is not the way you presented your straw man) and then even more broken stuff was released and here we are.

            So, again, you could not actually counter my argument so you thought that trying to publicly shame me would somehow make my argument less true. Dude, I do not care about your lies about me nor do I care if someone is genuinely dumb enough to believe them. To me and anyone else who is more interested in the facts you and your groupies are literally insignificant. Unless you have something that brings additional value to the discussion you are maningless. Your worth is exactly the same as your arguments worth is, meaning that unless you can’t do more than you ar doing now then you are worth nothing.
            You can be more though. All it takes is that you challenge my position with only valid arguments. 🙂

          • Champildhir

            “one does not have to try it to know it’s crap.” makes no sense… “The fact that you can literally buy a victory in it is pretty much alone enough to make it useless steaming pile at the moment”: I can think of a few popular games atm that are exactly like that: like X-wing and Magic, to mention some. I don’t see ppl ranting about them all the time…

          • Shiwan8

            To someone who is capable of making logical conclusions based on facts and has at least reasonable knowledge of what makes the games that are generally accepted as good good it makes perfect sense. To a person who has no idea of what a good game is…or rather what a game is it might not make sense but I doubt that there are many gamers like that.

            Tell me, since when did magic or x-wing have exactly no restrictions on how to build the force/deck built in the game? I’ve played x-wing and I do not recall being able to just infinitely add fighters to the table after my opponent finished his deployment. Yet this is exactly what AoS is at the moment, a game of who has more models to deploy.

          • Moonsaves

            Infinitely add… hang about, you’re aware that both players on the original format kept deploying until one person ran out of models, right? It was in the original rule book release. I’m not sure where the argument of infinite deployment is coming from.

          • Shiwan8

            Not aware of that, neither are AoS rules btw. You can go and check that from GW site any time you like. You deploy until you run out of space or just do not feel like adding more units. Not really “infinitely”, I know, but the balance of AoS is explained perfectly in a situation in which one side has a min unit of goblins and the other has 20 Nagash. That is how great game it is by default.

            You know, it would be cool if you at least knew the rules before making claims.

          • Moonsaves

            Fair enough, it’s been a while since I’ve had to read the rules and this is the way my local area has played up until now. I’ll hold my hands up that I didn’t realise that wasn’t an official ruling, but it is common sense, right?

            Are people playing 20 Nagash a common thing in your area? If so, do you find many people want to play with them just because they can?

            Tacking on to this – are people playing 10 Riptides common in your area, just because they can with unbound?

            You can do a lot of things in life, but it doesn’t mean that you will or should. People seem to think of the absolute worst case scenario with this game, and it amazes me that I haven’t seen (or even heard of) people abusing the rules as much as people’s fantasies claim they absolutely definitely do/will.

          • Shiwan8

            Common sense in a situarion in which units are equal to one another. In an asymmetric situation not so much. Common sense would make the person who has a lot better units to field them less in number than the other player with worse units. This is how properly done point system works.

            It’s not what people usually do. It’s what is possible. If it can be done then someone will do it in a game. It’s like the internet rule 32. Never fails. Otherwise we could claim that Eldar are balanced against CSM which common sense and empirical evidence tells us is false.

            People tend to play good lists here. If I played eldar I would not want to play melee guardian spamm either even though that would actually make the garden gnome lists balanced against the weaker codices. For example.

            I agree that people should not abuse rules, but they do. WAACs are more common than other players to be honest.

      • Champildhir

        “Starting AoS” does not mean “playing tournaments”

        • Yeah. This is huge. Most people I know who play AoS do not ever play tournaments. Starting AoS and playing tournaments are very different. You can enjoy the game a lot and play it a ton without ever entering one. And the $33 starter set will let you try out the game for less money than most board games, let alone other miniature war games

        • Shiwan8

          Playing reasonable games tends to mean having tournament sized armies.

          • Dongmaster

            Wow, at least now I know delusion is still alive and kicking.

            Do elaborate on that one.

          • Shiwan8

            As you wish. Imagine a situation in which you have one unit of stormcast eternals and the opponent has an equivalent iron jaws unit. Now, you play a thousand games using nothing but those 2 units and always the same player with the same unit.

            Would you agree that having multiple units, varying lists, different scenarios and possibly even switching armies every now and then would make the game deeper, more challenging and actually making tactics worth the hassle more than in the previous situation?

            If not then hey, maybe endless repetition is for you. If you agree you will see, understand and agree with my previous statement.

          • Dongmaster

            You wrote games, not AoS so I am still waiting for you to elaborate.

            The vast majority of games are not played at tournaments.

          • Shiwan8

            Yeah, now you have understood my meaning wrong and assume that you know what I said better than I. “Games” can refer to multiple individual matches, for example “we played a game of AoS”, which is what I meant.

          • Dongmaster

            Alright!

            Still a narative game can easily be more reasonable than a tournament game.

            As an example.

  • zeno666

    The cheapest and best way is not to even bother getting started with a dying game.

    • jcdent

      Wouldn’t necessarily call it dying, just kind of… lame, especially in the fluff and faction naming conventions.

    • OldHat

      Dying? Feel free to cite me some data on that one. Sample a few hundred LGS and GW stores, compile the info, and see if its on the decline. Especially compared to WHFB, which was dead long before AoS came along.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        all any of us have to go on is our own experience, since GW don’t publish detailed figures.

        There was a WHFB scene at my club, with a game or two each week (about 1/4th to 1/6th as popular as 40K). AoS was played a few times and still gets some play, and I saw KoW played too, but lately 9th Age seems to have taken over.

        • OldHat

          And my local scene for WHFB died many years before the game was retired by GW. I kept trying to spark interest, but dropping 200 models rank-and-file was a big detractor. I know a lot of people who disliked wheeling and movement in WHFB, too.

          Right now, AoS is simmering at my LGS. I am about to start running some events and drum up interest after the GH hits though. I think that will see the game grow fast.

          9th Age has picked up here a bit too, for the old guard who still want their R&F stuff. I have debated learning it, since my Ogres are all squared out.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            its funny how different areas vary. The previous club I played at had a healthy WHFB scene but practically no-one playing 40K, and since I left I suspect 40K has gone from that club as only two players would have been left. Luckily for me 40K is healthy where I play now.

            People seem to really enjoy 9th Age and rave about the balance and fun to be had, so I’d consider it.

    • ChubToad

      Yeah! The cheapest way is not to even bother with any game. In fact one should stop reading the comment section and go get a GF or something.

      • Gunsheeplol

        A GF is not cheap at all

  • jcdent

    Cheaper ways to start Age of Sigmar:
    1) Buy 1 Wight Lord and 1 unit of Graveguards from GW. Get skelly horde and revenant knights from mantic. Cough up a necromancer. Now you have a thousand list, battlescroll battallion compliant skelly list for 1000 points and about 150 bongs.
    2) Buy old WHFB minis on Ebay
    3) Stab an AoS player. He won’t be missed.
    4) Trade sexual favors for a Tomb Lords army. The former player with a 2000 pts squatted army needs all cheering up he can get.

    • jcdent

      I also love it how paying $400 (~$300 through deal hunting) for 31 model is presented as A Good Thing.

    • Spacefrisian

      Step 1: Go to the dollar/pound/Euro store
      Step 2: look for cheap toys that could pass for Ogres or trolls
      Step 3: get Greenstuf and bases and check your Bits box (not needed but a bonus if you have it)
      Step 4: Assemble and have a large army for less than 50 coins.

  • frankelee

    That’s not cheap.

    • RuneGrey

      It is for GW games at ‘tournament level’. Kinda. I mean $500 – $600 isn’t unusual for 2000 point armies in 40k.

      • crcovar

        and aren’t X-wing tournament winner lists around the $300 range?

        • RuneGrey

          Comparative value with X-Wing is a tricky proposition to make thanks to the cost of the hobby aspect vs. prepainted figures, and just about everything loses out to X-Wing on that front thanks to that expert level hobby investment known as an ‘airbrush’.

          • crcovar

            I figure the people most invested/interested in the cost of a list for a tournament probably don’t care about the value of a miniature beyond it being on the table top. So they might be more “costly” if you have zero interest beyond playing, but have more value for the cost if you have interest in the hobby aspect.

      • Richard Mitchell

        Still way more expensive for one tournament size army compared to some of the other options out there.

  • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

    I’m afraid I’ll never play this game out of principle. No company deserves to treat its customers so appallingly as GW did with WHFB and make any money from any successor product.

    Would be better if people boycotted it to teach GW some manners, but I guess the article writer makes money from the games so he is kind of biased.

    • Ben_S

      I have some sympathy with your stance, but really what matters is the models. Play AoS using third party models, and GW get nothing from you. Buy GW models in order to play Kings of War, and they still profit.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        better still to play Oldhammer, KoW or 9th Age

        Every AoS player adds to the ‘community’ and encourages other people who will buy the awful miniatures to hand their money to GW.

        • Ben_S

          Personally I’m more interested in something like Dragon Rampant (which is the same sort of style as AoS, but more generic and with points).

          My point was that boycotting GW miniatures is probably more meaningful than boycotting their game, though I take your point that building a community for the game matters long-term (which, presumably, is why Mantic are so willing to embrace ex-WFB players).

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            the community is everything, if it wasn’t different games would be equally popular across all areas but actually take up of games is highly local.

            Its a rare gamer who will buy into a game without knowing they’ll find an opponent.

            I don’t want for a second for GW to go bust, as I am a long time 40K fan, but their Fantasy department deserves to fail.

          • bobrunnicles

            Their fantasy department WAS failing, that’s the cold hard truth (as much as I would have preferred otherwise, owning several multi-thousand point WFB armies). Would you have preferred that GW just let the game die outright without at least *trying* something new? I’ve seen that happen to PLENTY of other miniatures games, it’s not like GW are unique in that regard.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            no, I’ve already said what I would have preferred further up this thread. Actually GW showed they had it in them with the initial success of End Times.

          • bobrunnicles

            Initial success is correct. Problem was they rushed it; we had a few people at my store interested in Nagash then before you knew it Glottkin was out and then right after that Khaine. There was no time to actually DO anything with these beautiful books and minis. I own the complete set of End Times hardcovers and I love them but do they represent a huge opportunity missed? Most definitely, yes.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            yes it was a terrible rush and the later books somewhat undermined the good work of the first.

          • bobrunnicles

            I like them all and I’m glad I have them all but I definitely felt the wheels really came off with Thanquol and the mini-gun armed Rat Ogres. Although I would have *loved* (for example) a new Malekith model instead of the whole steaming pile of nothing we got with Khaine, I did enjoy the fluff aspect of the Khaine book immensely.

          • Scott Adams

            Love my bone ripper and his thugs!!! Love my rat bastards in general!

    • OldHat

      They had no obligation to continue supporting a game that, by their financials, appeared to be dead already. WHFB was on a long decline by the time they finally laid it to rest. AoS is a fresh take on their own fantasy world, with the vibe of more modern high fantasy to it. The models are spectacular and I will give them my business on that alone.

      Thus far, I don’t see them treating their players poorly. They are aloof if anything, but in the last year, I have watched them push a bit harder to engage their players. A new campaign, internet presence, FAQs, etc. They seem to be trying to be more connected.

      But by all means, don’t give GW money. You can always take your models and play 9th Age or KoW. On the other hand, I will keep enjoying their stellar models.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        I disagree. I think they had a moral obligation to at least try to revive it and put some energy into it. Actually I saw people starting new armies with End Times and then suddenly the game was canned. All those new players felt very betrayed.

        If GW had put the energy they are putting into AoS into WHFB it would have been a smash hit, especially with Total War Warhammer on the scene.

        There was no need to just kill WHFB. At the very least they could have finished updating the Army Books for 8th and kept it on in the way the old specialist games were with digitally available rules.

        Of course if they hadn’t used army balance and dumb rules to sell models and had stupidly high prices and barrier to entry there would have been no need to revive it as it wouldn’t have declined in the first place.

        • OldHat

          They did try to revive it. That was 8th Ed. And it failed because 20+ years of people buying armies boxed them in. The style of borrowed not-Earth models and rank-and-file locked them into a design direction.

          I won’t disagree they could have kept the old style as a Specialist Game, though. I get why, but I wish they had. They needed to put all their effort into backing this new game and basically force people to move on to AoS. It was a business call, no doubt.

          At the end of the day, I am happy with the new game. The art direction, growing fluff, and high-end models on a skirmish-style game that can scale up and down well is what I wanted. They dropped the trays and movement silliness of R&F and I think this game will do well in the coming years. I would say give it a try, you might find you like it and as said, you can always get in some KoW or 9th Age to sate your R&F needs.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            8th was the nail in the coffin, it was the further attempt to squeeze more cash from a shrinking player base by getting them to buy yet bigger units that pushed the game into extinction in a lot of places. That along with poor balance and an overpowered magic system.

            6th Edition had a good skirmish variant that could have been worked up if they had thought about it, or they could have revived Mordheim. A parallel skirmish variant in the same setting would have been a good way to fulfill all those things you wanted and act as a way into the bigger game for new players.

          • OldHat

            I think the other issue was the setting though. They were so heavily boxed in. 30+ years of history based on a not-Earth earth was really growing stale. I think they did an awesome job borrowing from it to make AoS, retaining parts of the lore, but making it fresh. It also opened up so many, many new design opportunities and settings.

            I view the shift of WHFB to AoS as really just an inevitability. 40k is hugely popular, why not borrow from their flagship game? And from what I am seeing, it is working.While the divisive release is a year behind us, I see the positive momentum behind AoS picking up. Especially with the GH dropping soon.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            the setting had a lot of room for expansion, after all only Europe and America were covered, that left a lot of space. They could have also done a ’30K’ on it and explored earlier in the timeline.

            There are good reasons not to borrow from 40K, two similar games cannibalise each other’s sales for one thing. The reduced diversity also leaves niches open for other manufacturers.

          • OldHat

            Not-Earth Earth was, imo, boring. Right now, there is so much more room for a lot more without having to resort to a 30k style expansion. They have a whole new world that maintains some of their key concepts, tones, and style, while pushing forward into a newer, fresher style.

            And they borrowed from 40k in some regards, but they won’t really cannibalize from each other. One is high fantasy, the other Sci-fi. They are exclusive enough to not hurt their sales. If anything, it gets me buying a lot more, as I want a piece of each pie.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            well each to their own, but a lot of people loved that setting and really hate the new one. Including myself!

            AoS and 40K are both same scale similar size round base games with expensive plastic models sold by the same company through the same channels.

          • bobrunnicles

            I do wish they had explored some of the other regions of the Old World but with 14 armies to support already it was just too much of a burden. Several armies had already gone a LOOOONG time without an update, it would have been very frustrating to wait even longer and see completely new armies come out in the meantime (even if I would personally have loved it lol). Plus how long do you pump an equal amount of development money and time into a range that is only bringing a fraction of the revenue from it’s sister range without throwing in the towel?

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            AoS must have cost a fortune in development money. Since End Times was a success it shows that the capacity was there to stimulate demand with a decent investment. Leaving WHFB fallow was, I agree, not sensible. However killing it and replacing it was just one option.

          • OldHat

            If it works for Warmachine and Hordes in a compatible game, I doubt it will hurt GW for two non-compatible games. I dare say I think it will help, as people will buy an army for one and an army for another. Not just one Warmahordes army. Just my $.02 on that.

          • Aezeal

            But most would still have had the other armies.. just flooding the scene with more armies that need investements on GW’s part isn’t a solution..

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            its working in 40K.

            If armies are balanced them some can effectively be ‘parked’ without falling behind. Also similar armies can be amalgamated as GW have with Black Templars and Space Marines. Both these make space for new forces, as we’ve seen in 40K.

          • bobrunnicles

            To be honest I place a lot of the blame for this at the feet of Kirby. If only he had received the boot *before* 8th went under we might have had options that could have saved it. No core unit choice should ever have been priced at $60 for ten minis. That’s insanity and it’s that kind of thinking that killed Fantasy.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            agree.

          • OldHat

            Can’t disagree with that as far as the absurdity for pricing, since you almost always needed like 30+ dudes in a unit. I used to run Empire, so I took a hell of a beating when I got that army back at the start of 8th.

            But I still feel they wanted to break with their existing world, which I feel made the shift to AoS inevitable. It gave them so much design space.

          • Aezeal

            If you can’t accept 8th was already a last attempt before either quitting or going a different (AoS) route then you just don’t get it at all. Demanding another try like 8th after they already did that is just stupid.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            my other try would have been more like 6th, with a Ravening Hordes book to balance all armies and a skirmish variant to encourage new players.

          • Dongmaster

            Amen!

          • bobrunnicles

            They also faced the dilemma of having to release new model options for every army with each new army book which resulted in bloated lists with simply too many options. However they HAD to do this because unlike Tactical Marines (that seem to keep selling no matter how often they redo the basic box) when you resculpt things like Dark Elf Spearmen most Dark Elf players already have plenty of the little buggers so they don’t sell at all to existing players, and the fact you need 40 of them to make an effective unit meant that new players weren’t buying into them either.
            I was hoping that 9th would bring back effective MSU options, which in effect AoS has done. Wasn’t how I would have preferred it but I totally see why it was necessary. So right now I’m playing both 8th (which has a strong following still at my FLGS) *and* AoS which has a growing following.

        • Beefcake the mighty

          I was still painting my undead legions when the game was killed🙂 But I figure now that fantasy Orcs wear power armor it was a good time to walk away anyhow.

      • twincast

        Overdesigned “modern” fantasy sucks.

    • Dongmaster

      You speak as if the common interest follow yours.

      Personal vendetta against a game company that makes toys sounds half way to insanity.

      Time for a 180 methinks.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        its not a vendetta, its called consumer power, its all the rage since about 1790.

        • Dongmaster

          I am going to read a dozen of your latest posts again with a clean pair of pants.

          You deserve it tiger.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            as well as not liking GWs bad behaviour towards existing WHFB players, my worry is that if GW decide AoS has been a success they’ll do the same to 40K…

          • Dongmaster

            And if that makes the game more popular will you blow a fuse?

            Jumping on AoS in every thread is dangerous to your health seeing that you can’t do jack about it.

            I am seriously considering AoS because it has grown on me, and while I wasn’t too fond of the setting in the beginning, I never left WFB as a bitter player. I found Hordes shortly after 8th ed. and is about kick it with 40K. Gaming is good!

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I hardly ever bother to read AoS threads.

            As for doing something, speech is action too and I’ve expressed how I feel which is healthier than bottling it up!

            If they simplify 40K to the point of AoS I won’t be playing it however popular it is, so its popularity won’t be relevant to me. I would hope someone would do an equivalent of 9th Age for the game.

          • Dongmaster

            At least you put yourself first when it comes to gaming and ignore the winds online.

            I do the same.

          • Christopher Szynkowski

            Honestly, I’d almost welcome the change.

            AoS had only one real flaw to it as a game, and that was they essentially released what should have been starter box rules and never released anything more coherent (until now with the GH, which solves several of the most glaring issues).

            Now that Kirby is out and they’ve figured out what they are able and trying to do with AoS, they could easily do an overhaul of 40k in the same vein and not have have it turn into a train wreck.

            Ideally they wouldn’t go full bore with it, but even an advancement on the timeline to a ‘shattered Imperium’ setting or something would be alright.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            The recent changes to AoS make me a bit less worried that they are going to strip 40k of its points system.

            Kirby really did a number on GW.

            I suspect two settings (30k and 40k) are enough, though I think a shattered Imperium might be fun as an addition rather than a replacement.

            GWs own design studio seem really clumsy and infantile these days so I’m not sure I’d trust them to do it justice.

          • Mira Bella

            I don’t understand why you are bothered with this?
            Do you know him?
            Does his opinion about AoS makes you enjoy the game any less?
            Why do you care what a total stranger on the internet thinks about your chosen game?

          • Dongmaster

            My chosen game? AoS is not something I dabble with.

            Like you I reply to posts I have no idea about.

            Not as flawed as yours true, but not stellar either.

    • Frank Krifka

      That’s disgusting.

      It’s tantamount to saying you refuse to watch Serenity because you disapprove of how Firefly was cancelled. You’d rather see actors and directors tied into a project with unworkable restrictions, that nobody was watching, rather than redesign everything in an entertaining way from the ground up.

      To which I say, you’re being petty, and missing a good movie.

      • Mira Bella

        Disgusting?!
        So you should continue to buy a product even if you don’t like it?

        • Frank Krifka

          He said he wouldn’t try it out of principle. It’s not because he doesn’t like it, it’s because he’s being stubborn AND being a A$-hole about it

          • Mira Bella

            I don’t try bungee jumping out of principle. Does that make me a stubborn a$$hole as well?
            Do you allways have to try anything before you can make up your mind about it?

          • Frank Krifka

            Actually I do try things before making my mind up about it. It’s called being a rational human being instead of crazy spoiled child who won’t try braised collards because they’re “green”.

          • Gridloc

            If a small group of people (lets face it table top gaming is considered small compared to the vast majority of other hobbies) was eating cow poop as a new amazing fad. Would you say that you would try it or could you say that its something you are not interested in. Understanding that you are not saying those who enjoy it are wrong or mocking in any way.

            You see you can make opinions and choices off information presented to you with out always having to try it first. Its completely possible. Now I agree that someone who is into wargaming should try out the game before making a decision, it is his choice ultimately. Plus he could have a slew of other games he plays. AoS is fun, but so are dozens of games currently out. AoS doesn’t bring to much new to the table beyond GW’s aesthetics and massive catalog of models. So if it doesn’t interest him or if the past actions of the company upset him, I would agree with his decision to avoid the game off principle.

          • Frank Krifka

            Lord. Why does everybody go toward Coprophagia when they need an example of not needing to try something before you made a decision about it?

            I could go into detail about how yes, you actually do need to try something, (or something similar at least) before you can say with any certainty that you like or dislike it. Yes, there is such a thing as an educated guess, based off what is expected. But I can give you literally thousands of examples where the brain is actually incapable of making reasoned decisions that way, as well as ways the brain can be tricked to pick things that don’t make sense or are actually bad for it.

            so let me say then in an overwhelming number of cases, it is best to try something before you make a decision of preference. (note that I’m not saying decisions of safety, morality or benefit. but straight up preference. Preference can only be constructed through experience.)

            Aside from that. Everybody is missing the fking point. I’m not saying he has to like AoS. i have friends who tried AoS. It wasn’t for them and that’s cool. We play 9th age instead. But refusing to try something, and refusing to like it if you did try it, is basically a temper tantrum. Furthermore, taking active steps to keep a community from growing is not a matter of expressing personal preference or even debating the merits of an activity. It is recalcitrant dckishness.

            Like whatever you like. but don’t be an A-hole just because it isn’t your cup of tea.

      • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

        entertaining straw man argument. However AoS is sh1t while Serenity is good so your argument fails 🙂

        • Frank Krifka

          I really wish that people who took one philosophy class in junior college wouldn’t try to quote informal fallacies when they obviously don’t know how to apply them in proper context. Ad Hominem, red herring, straw man; don’t use it if you don’t know how to identify it…

          Aside from that. You’re still being that guy. Serenity was an entertaining movie, as AoS is also an entertaining game. I get you you liked it the old way. I do, but now you’re just being a petty crybaby, and missing out on a fun game.

          Which is fine thats how you want to play it, some people still prefer to use typewriters to type out term papers. But don’t pretend your high moral stance of “not one more dollar for GW EVAR” is anything more than sour grapes.

          • Mira Bella

            Do you understand that entertaining Is entirely subjective?
            I might like things that you don’t like.
            You might like things that I don’t like.
            Is that concept so hard to grasp?

          • Frank Krifka

            It isn’t about my liked vs his likes. It’s a matter of *refusing* to like something without trying it. To label it as not fun for people other than himself. And the end goal of this idiotic position is to prevent the company who put it out from making any more money off of it.

            His goal is not to avoid playing a game he doesn’t like. His goal is to purposefully $hit on it for everybody who DOES like it. Additionally, his goal is to punish GW for taking his toys away.

            (not even that really. His goal is punish GW for not making NEW toys in a very specific way that him and a small minority of his friends feel should be the only toys available. )

          • Mira Bella

            Does that mean I have to try all drugs before I know that I perfer to stay clean?
            Does that mean that I have to hurt someone before I really know that I prefer to be peaceful?
            Do I have to eat literal $hit before I truly know that I don’t like it?
            Do I have to sleep with another woman before I know that Im really straight?
            Do you see how ridiculous this is?

            Another good question is, why are you bothered with this?
            Why do you care what a random person on the internet thinks about your prefered game? Do you enjoy it any less because of his opinion?
            What are you trying to achive here?
            Who’s fight are you fighting?
            Im pretty sure you won’t change knighs opinion on this topic.

          • Frank Krifka

            Right. Because all of those things are equivalent to a game of moving tiny soldiers. Furthermore moving tiny soldiers in one way, vs another.

            I do have a vested interest in this game now, because I do like it. And I’m not intending to change Knights mind. (We’ve argued plenty of times before, he’s a decent guy if not a bit beardy) I’m arguing for the people who might read that post and opt not to try a game which is fun, easy, and largely low cost (vs 8th edition)

            His stated goal is to see the AOS not grow. Mine is to see it grow.

            So in view of your post above, why are you sticking your nose in a place that you seem to think mine doesn’t belong? Likewise why are you defending a position that you seem to feel is inconsequential?

          • Mira Bella

            I hope you don’t mind if I quote you.

            “It’s a matter of *refusing* to like something without trying it.”

            “Actually I do try things before making my mind up about it. It’s called being a rational human being instead of crazy spoiled child”

            You never specified that you are only talking about Tabletop Games. You DID repetendly claimed that you HAVE to try something before you could make your mind up about it.

            I just refuted that.

            Your best return is that those things are not really compareble?
            Well, I wasn’t the one talking in absolutes. That was you.

            I really don’t have any qualms about AoS.
            But I really, really don’t like this “well you have never tried it, so you don’t know if you like it” attitude.

          • Frank Krifka

            Now that is actually an excellent example of a straw man argument. Congratulations.

            Aside from that, i was speaking in reference to tabletop games. Granted the argument can be extended to other things, like heroin and buttsecks. But that is another fallacy called moving the goal posts.

            You should look it up. I’ll wait.

          • Mira Bella

            Im just gonna Quote you again. 😉

            “I really wish that people who took one philosophy class in junior college wouldn’t try to quote informal fallacies when they obviously don’t know how to apply them in proper context. Ad Hominem, red herring, straw man; don’t use it if you don’t know how to identify it…”

            Well… at least we agree on this one!
            😀

          • Frank Krifka

            ::Sigh:: since we’re apparently playing the quoting game:

            A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

            Mira Bella: “You DID repetendly claimed that you HAVE to try something before you could make your mind up about it. I just refuted that.”

            what I actually said “His goal is not to avoid playing a game he doesn’t like. His goal is to purposefully $hit on it for everybody who DOES like it. Additionally, his goal is to punish GW for taking his toys away.”

            You diverting attention to minor sub point, and not addressing the point I was making. That is why it’s a straw man.

            Also:

            Mira bella “Does that mean I have to try all drugs before I know that I prefer to stay clean? Does that mean that I have to hurt someone before I really know that I prefer to be peaceful? Do I have to eat literal $hit before I truly know that I don’t like it? Do I have to sleep with another woman before I know that Im really straight? Do you see how ridiculous this is?”

            we’ll ignore the fact that this was not my original argument (see straw man above).

            “Moving the goalposts (or shifting the goalposts) is a metaphor, derived from association football or other games, that means to change the criterion (goal) of a process or competition while still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an intentional advantage or disadvantage.”

            i.e. moving my point about trying something before deciding weather or not you like it from the imitate realm of tabletop wargaming to; Drug abuse, violence, coprophagia, adultery, and even sexual orientation. The is the very definition of moving the goalposts.

            Really, if you have something intelligent to add now would be the time to do it. If you don’t, then try silence. It will make you look less stupid.

          • Mira Bella

            ::Sigh::
            I know what a straw man is my dear. It’s called Strohmann Argument in my native tongue.
            Same goes for Red Herring. We call it Roter Herring.
            This Is getting rather tiresome don’t you think?
            I don’t see us making any progress.
            You are only getting more insultive.
            I really don’t appreciate you questioning my Intelligence while we having this conversation in YOUR native Language.
            That Is very disrespectful.
            It’s almost 1am now and I need to get up early today.
            So lets finish this.
            I want you to know that even though we might disagree on alot of things, I still consider you a human being and woudn’t let you fall of a cliff.
            Wishing you and your familiy a blessed evening and a peaceful night.

          • Oh man, thanks guys. This was some of the best reading. Like all thought out arguments with good writing and everything. A right proper flame war. I wish I had popcorn.

            I generally think that having fun should be fun. Others having fun, even if it’s not fun for you, shouldn’t be offensive. Trying to tell everyone how horrible a game that you’ve never played is, seems somewhat pointless. Like I get maybe I’d you’ve played it and can say why it really want fun for you or your type of game… Sure. But saying that a game is bad because a different game got canceled and that the new game isn’t the old game.. I dunno. Seems silly.

            Overall getting new people into the hobby playing anything.. AoS, 40k, KoW, Wok, just expands the player base for everyone. Most people when they get hooked, try out other games. If AoS ends up being a gateway to other games, it can only be good for all.

          • Neal Laxman

            Let me address your comments:

            Yes, drugs are fun so you should try them
            Causing pain gives me a boner
            Poopy makes a good smoothie
            Pictures please
            Ridiculous is subjective, just like everyone’s opinion. I get what frank is saying, knight won’t try something and says he hates it. It is a literal impossibility to hate something you don’t know…..
            I get knights feelings, and understand why he won’t try it but wish every post on AOS didn’t have the same diatribe (not necessarily knight, he’s just the unfortunate poster in this case) of boring pointless, I won’t try and don’t like this. Poo poo to you!

            /frustrated post

          • Mira Bella

            To adress your points.
            -Well since I have children, I will never officially agree with you on the drug part. 🙂
            -I don’t agree on the pain part.
            -I absolutely dissagree about the poop part! But I understand that tastes differ.
            -No! 😀

            Yes ridiculous is subjective, almost anything is actually.
            I don’t believe that Knight knows nothing about AoS. I believe that he knows a lot about the game/fluff simply by reading articles on this site. I know that I do.
            If he heard of the game the first time today, and would have posted the same, then I would totally agree.
            This whole AoS debate thing Is indeed getting rather boring, and I mean both sides.
            But hey! Clicks! So at least Larry Is happy. 🙂

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Substituting your opponent’s argument for an example that is similar but can be easily refuted is a Straw Man argument.

            Ad Hominen argument is where you attack the speaker not the question.

            A red herring is where you distract with an irrelevant side argument.

            Your comment above is part red herring but mostly straw man.

            I actually did quite a lot of philosophy at university funnily enough, though my degree was in theology.

            Anyhow I think I am entitled to be That Guy towards GW. As another philosopher said: ‘to forgive and forget is to waste valuable experience’.

          • Frank Krifka

            That’s interesting actually. my background is in Theology as well.

            Entitlement is the neckbeard worn by “that guy”. I get your upset, but I stand by my original statement that you’re just being petty.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            From my perspective consumer power is the only way to communicate with monolithic companies like GW who are not open to communication any other way. They have shown that they don’t care about their customers feelings and don’t reward the loyalty shown towards them.

            If they succeed in profiting from their destruction of the Old World setting its a poor message to send them, one that would bode badly for 40K. I don’t think this is entitlement, just being an aware and intelligent consumer.

            Also I think we are all entitled to purchase what we want and play what we want for whatever reason we want! On an emotional level I guess I still feel some grief for the loss of the Old World and I see the AoS setting as something of an insult.

          • Frank Krifka

            I’m not going to debate the merits of the GW’s actions, because my quarrel is not about your opinion of them. I appreciate your feelings of loss regarding the old world, but srsly?

            No seriously. Really? Burn it all to the ground on the flames your own righteous indignation over a game a lot of people (myself included) actually enjoy? Oh, that self importance…

  • OldHat

    Reece – you could have mentioned dividing the Starter, buying a forthcoming Start Collecting box, and going from there as the truly cheap way in. You can do Stormcast or Khorne that way for a lot less than the army you posted.

  • kaptinscuzgob

    step 1: dont

    • ChubToad

      step 2: reconsider

  • Koschei

    The more I read AoS articles, the more I despair! How could GW ditch players who had committed so much time and money to their hobby be abandoned by them for a new game… Oh wait, they allowed you to play these new rules for free, retroactively created rules for the old models and then pushed out some of the most impressive new models to date in the fantasy line and one of the most warmly received publications is due to be released in 3 days… The amount of momentum behind AoS is astonishing, every single discussion here is a trending topic, compare that to 8th, just not even close.

    What people are seeing on a micro scale is not reflected on the Macro. If you think local gaming clubs is where it’s at for AoS, then you are looking in the wrong places, this is a competitive garage game, evolving as it grows. This is exactly what AoS needed, to appeal more widely to the masses, then tune it for the competitive play once it’s established.

    Love it or hate it, it’s going nowhere, either move on to something you enjoy or suck it up, you are just burning energy and spinning your wheels.

  • Ira Clements

    Wow mega awesome starter cool deal from FRONTLINE GAMING! And when you you find that its a rip off you can sell the mega awesome $400 bitchin starter deal from FRONTLINE GAMING for like $58 dollars because who gives you INSTANT cash for those (second hand) models????? FRONTLINE GAMING!