Adeptus Titanicus: Latest News

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Here’s the latest roundup from this weekend’s European Open Day on how GW’s Adeptus Titanicus is coming along:

adeptus-titanicus-banner

Here’s the latest set of new, which builds heavily off the information that came out of the earlier Forge World Open Day in July. With this type of information, the key is to look at both sets of information and look for the consistent pieces of data, and don’t worry about the minor differences.

European Open Day News

via Bolter & Chainsword 10-4-2016

  • The Warlord and Questoris Knight are done, Reaver is currently sculpted, the large Knight was already 3D printed and he looks huge (larger than a terminator). Cerastus Knights will be done after the Reaver is finished.
  • The Warlord is sized between the 28mm Questoris Knight and Leviathan. Actually, it’s pretty much Thanatar sized, and also has the same amount of parts.
  • The “starter box” will contain the rules, plastic scenary, plastic markers, special dice. No models in it – but there will be bundles on the FW site.
  • They will do all the models in resin – maybe, maaaybe one day if it sells very well they can get green light for a full plastic starter box. But not any time soon.
  • They will do the old EPIC slaaneshi titans/knights – but loyalist versions of them. The subjugator is a “lighter class” titan now, the smaller ones will still be knights afaik. They will get done in 8mm scale first, and later (hopefully) for 30k too.
  • Stuff that already had CAD files can be scaled down, but the other way isn’t that easy. So don’t expect 8mm stuff beeing released in 28mm soon afterwords, as you can’t just upscale it.
  • The game itself will be very tactical. It’s based around a maniple of 5 titans and knights support. You will have large cards for each of your titans, and marker for void shields, damage, energy etc.
  • There will be 3 modes to play similiar to AoS – open play where you can test the waters, matched play with points etc, and narrative mode based on scenarios.
  • Machine Spirit traits are in and important.
  • Legion traits will be in. *Maybe* we will even get teleporting Warp Runners
  • You can do an all Warhound army and play against lets say 5 Warlords – the site with the smaller titans will get battle traits to make these games fair.
  • The first Black Book will be based upon the “Titansdeath”. It’s a huuuuge conflict whichs outcame enabled Horus to strike at Terra. Legio Mortis, Firebrands, Warp Runners, Maybe Legio Tempestus and a intro chapter about the first battle for Mars.
  • More black books are planned – similiar to the “normal” HH series, but with AT rules and specific to these really large battles.
  • ETA is roughly “first half of 2017”.

adeptus-titanicus-box-back

Adeptus Titanicus (1988)

Previous News

via Dakka’ Zedmeister 7-17-2016
And now, Adeptus Titancius. As mentioned above, the original play test box is quite the relic and was worth a look.
– They’re digging into all previous Epic games for inspiration, but it will be a new rule set.
– Expect Titans to have a plasma reactor power tracker to keep track of how much power they have.
– They’ll be able to overload the reactor to boost power with a risk (Overload voids, increase speed, etc)
– Harpoons will be back but nowhere near as ridiculous as they used to be!
– Expect 2nd edition Epic orders and damage charts
– Expect 1st edition campaign and upgrade rules
– Engine war will be a bit of a slugfest, with Titans slowly blasting each other to Atoms, staggering about, weapons missing, systems burnt out, but still able to fight until you smash the legs, pulverise the MIU’s or cause the reactor to go nuclear.
– Manourberability is key – the heavier the Titan, the slower they are. He described a play test where his final warlord was scragged when an enemy warhound got behind it and he didn’t have enough power to overload the reactor to take more turns than they can
– Knights are objective grabbers and shield droppers, don’t expect them to go toe to toe with Titans and survive
– Campaign games are the default mode of play, similar to Necromunda as he described it. With options for competitive and open play.
– Machine spirit personality will play a role. This sounded really exciting. Titans will pick up a personality the more used they are. So you could end up wth a Titan geared for close combat and have it turn into a bit of berserker which will have an effect of it becoming less controllable in battle. ‘Resting’ the Titan becomes an important choice to make. Yes, your Titan could end up with PTSD or worse…
– They’re starting out with the three classes and Knights, all in resin
– They’ll be a game box that’ll contain just the rules and terrain, a Horus heresy style black book for the main rules with additional background and colour imagery and the models in resin
– As for future Titans, expect a new class between warlord and reaver as well as a Nemesis class and, he got really excited, PsiTitans (at last)! Imperator would only appear if the game proves popular
– They’re now running through play testing the game with a wider player base

It was mentioned that a typical game would be 1 warlord, 1-2 reavers and 2-3 warhounds.

In terms of the rules, he did mention that they’d take on and adapt rules from previous editions only if they made sense and added to the tactical experience. They wouldn’t add them in for the sake of it. He also mentioned that they’re not afraid of a bit of complexity if, again, it made sense.

Finally, I’ve just recalled that they’re like to sell hulls without weapons and sell the weapons separately.

 

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More Adeptus Titanicus Coverage

The talk of rules for Machine Spirits, and Titan Legion special rules is music to my ears!

~ What Titan Legion Would You Pick?

Titan Legions (Lexicanum)

codex-titanicus

Codex Titanicus (1989)

 

  • Starter box without models… I guess I won’t be jumping on it anytime soon then.

    • Vorropohaiah

      such a shame. I was looking forward to plastic titans. probably wont even get this now :s

      • taithays

        No resin for me too :/

    • Tim Kennedy

      Added that the “selling the arms separate” money spinner is another reason I’ve lost the majority of interest since the start of this article :/

      • ZeeLobby

        I mean if they’d at least put resin models in the starter you could justify buying arms to customize their load out for future games. I just don’t know how I’d sell this to my gaming group. Buy the starter set and then have both sides proxy models right off the bat. I’d imagine I’d get a lot of shaking heads.

        • Stephan McColl

          Yeah I am on the Proxy route myself. But making them myself. Have done rough prototyping of sizes but have yet to start on real versions that’ll i’ll be making molds of to replicate. Just can’t justify the cost of buying two maniples with warlords probably costing around £70 each

          • ZeeLobby

            3D printing might be a the way to go as well. I know there’s some CADs out there for older epic stuff. Changing the scale shouldn’t be too tough.

          • Stephan McColl

            Yeah I have been thinking of that. I have a great 3D printer at work. I have been taught CAD but it’s been a while.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean luckily there are already a lot of free designs you can download off thingiverse and other sites. Really depends on how hard it is to convince work that small robot miniatures are key to the companies success, lol.

          • Stephan McColl

            thankfully they are happy to let me print what I want. Already got some 8mm scale Sicaran and Fellblade tanks from Thingiverse that I have printed out and then cloned using silicone molds, but I have yet to find a Titan on Thingiverse that I think is worth printing.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I wish i had access to a good 3D scanner, because there’s definitely some companies out there with good models (Onslaught for one).

          • Stephan McColl

            yeah their stuff is pretty damned cool

          • edendil

            I really hope they won’t cost that much.

          • Stephan McColl

            Yeah I am hoping that I am wrong. But rumours say the Warlord will be roughly the size of the Thanatar which is £72. But the Thanatar comes with arms whereas the Warlord is apparently buy the arms separately and there four weapons on a Warlord so I think £70 will be about right. Not great, hence why I am gonna design my own proxies to use.

          • edendil

            Well at that price, maybe 1 for x-mas and 1 for bday, so… in 5 years i’ll have my two maniples!
            Its expensive for sure. Still, that thanatar looks pretty sweet.

          • Stephan McColl

            hahaha! yeup! And yeah I quite like the Thanatar looks intimidating and like it could walk through walls without slowing!

        • Davor Mackovic

          Maybe use Battletech miniatures?

          • ZeeLobby

            I just can’t buy those, haha. The game is great, but the minis just kill me.

  • Ross Allan

    Sounds like something I can get behind.

  • Edouard Decaen

    A starter set without models is called a rule book…

    • Badgerboy1977

      Not if it includes scenery as well as the one poster states.

      • Shinnentai

        No need to let the facts get in the way of a pithy comment.

      • ZeeLobby

        Er. Starter set usually implies you can play a game with it. I guess you can pretend the scenery are Titans and move those around?

        • Badgerboy1977

          I’d say that’s open to interpretation myself.

          • ZeeLobby

            LOL. Itd be like buying a dungeon crawl with no models, or a board game with no pieces. How exactly would i use this to spark interest in a gaming group? “I got the starter, and $200 worth of resin for my side. Yes i haven’t played it yet, but I want to give it a shot. OK, well we can’t play yet, you’ll still need to go to FW, buy your models and wait for them to be shipped here. Then we can play, decide if we like it, then have only dropped around $500.”

            The alternative. “Hey I dropped about $150 for this starter, comes with everything you need to play, small forces for both sides. Oh, and buying some extra arms from FW will let you change up your list pretty easily if we like the game we play today”

          • orionburn

            I don’t see what the issue is. FW is going to be the one selling the game. They have taken over the specialist games. If you have to buy the rules from them why is it such an issue to order the game and the models you want at the same time? This is not something you’re going to be able to pick up at the local GW shop anyway.

          • ZeeLobby

            Which is my whole point. I don’t see how this is going to work. I might have been tempted to front the small sun to get my local group on board playing with a starter. I’m not going to go out and order a starter and two separate forces before I even learn if we enjoy the game.

            Now your comment totally makes sense if the gaming group in question are GW fanatica and will buy and play Titanicus regardless of how good it is.

          • orionburn

            I understand your reasoning. Now, if they are charging $150 for this starter box and no models in it then yeah, I’m going to complain too. But if it’s a cheaper starting point (let’s just say $75 for all the rules, scenery, etc) and then you can pick the models you want I don’t see that as such a bad thing.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Id get it if it’s cheap, but that’s not a word I’d use for the majority of stuff FW produces. If they offer there specialist games in stores, that might help as well. I may just have to lie to my group about the starter lacking models though. I mean I can’t even think of another game off the top of my head that doesn’t at least come with several models in the starter. Being in a group that plays many games outside of GW ones, I can just already imagine the “GW boning consumers again” comments, and while I can usually point to other systems doing the exact same thing, this is kind of out there.

          • orionburn

            A big part of the problem is the overseas factor. I’ve been preaching for years that FW needs to either distribute their stuff through GW stores or put a distribution center here in the states to cut down on the shipping & taxes.

            I don’t think they intend for this to be a massively played game. They’re just trying to bring back some niche games for the fans. I’m fine with that and I’m okay with paying a bit extra to do so. Not everyone agrees and that will hurt sales. If games like this (Epic, BFG, BB) would have done so well the first go round they never would have faded away.

          • ZeeLobby

            Knowing some people who worked for GW back when they originally released these games, there were many that were still going strong. GW has just always seen them as niche accompanying products to their main lines, and most were pet projects the company allowed the designers to take on as temporary offerings (which is literally how BFG was sold). The games died off because internally GW cut support. BFG would have continued to grow with campaign and model support. Heck look at the companies that came and filled the gap it left since then. But GW has always wanted to focus on its main lines.

            In many ways, I think that may be the case here. I think GW proper realizes that making their specialist games too accessible would result in cannibalism of its core games.

          • Shinnentai

            Yeah definately – classic Epic made a lot more sense as a full product line running parallel to 40k back in the day since 40k at the time was very much more skirmish oriented.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Now with 40K basically being Apocalypse, GW’s main focus is selling 40K Knights, not Epic ones. I don’t expect seeing the same crossover as before. Part of me worries if the new Adeptus Titanicus became too popular GW would take over and bulldoze FW’s superior game designs.

        • orionburn

          Yes, because nobody was playing Horus Heresy until the boxed game came out…

          • ZeeLobby

            The models already existed to play!!! 40K models are the same 28mm scale. Not to mention the old backlog of old mk armor that people dug out and got excited about. Itd make sense, if it was the same scale.

          • orionburn

            I’m just saying that in order to play HH originally with the 30k models you had to get the rules & models from FW. It’s going to be the same thing with this. If anything the HH model should show that it’s the right way to go. Let it build up and if it gets popular enough then let GW do a boxed game with plastic models. I seriously am not understanding all the hate for it already.

            I get what you’re saying about being able to use existing 40k models to an extent with HH, but nearly all the vehicles you have to get from FW. In my eyes while this is a “new” game it’s following in the footsteps of what they did with HH, and that’s worked out well for them.

          • ZeeLobby

            But those vehicles had dual value, cause you could play them in the massively popular 40K as well. It was also SM on SM action, and 50% of 40K players already played space Marines. We have local 30K players who’ve yet to buy a model from FW. I don’t see how any of that is comparable to what will exist prior to this release.

            And I think your confusing “hate” with disappointment and/or confusion.

        • palaeomerus

          Someone will have to make some printable paper and paste board standees to download from Russia.

      • jcdent

        If I can’t play the game by buying just that one box, it’s not a Starter as far as I am concerned.

        • ZeeLobby

          I think the majority of sane gamers would agree with you.

          • jcdent

            There are no sane gamers amongst the hams, only an eternity of buying and mathhammering, and the laughter of WACS

  • Badgerboy1977

    Sounds great, it’s going to be a fair bit more expensive though with the larger resin models but damn they’ll look amazing and at least it’s a small model count.
    Hopefully enough people will buy into it to warrant a plastic run in the future.

    • Shinnentai

      I can already see people (including me!) justifying the cost : “well it’s a lot cheaper than a 40k scale Reaver…” XD

  • Shinnentai

    A bit disappointing that GW have once again stopped short of full support for an Epic style mass battle game. I guess they’re too invested in the stupidity of doing the same thing in 28mm.

    • orionburn

      They do plan on bringing the old Epic 40k game back if that’s what you’re looking for.

    • Ross Allan

      Chatting to the guys at Warhammerfest, they’re kicking off with Titans for now. Infantry and a more formal Epic scale game may follow.

      • ZeeLobby

        But you know it won’t with resin models and the newer scale. Ugh. How can they not predict the future. Lol.

        • Ross Allan

          No? Peeps I know happily spend thousands (not an exaggeration) on their Heresy era stuff. Coughing up for a boxed of terrain and rules, then the Titans won’t phase them at all.
          Key here of course is the price of the Titans. I’ll leave it to each to set their own mental ‘worth it’ value though.

          • ZeeLobby

            But 30K vehicles are usable in 40K. And “peeps” is a small fraction of players comparable to the 40K crowd that also gobbles up “30K” resin. It just feels like they’re passing on a whole segment here.

      • Shinnentai

        When I say “full support” I mean making Adeptus Titanicus GW’s third game alongside 40k & Sigmar. What it looks like we’re getting is a new Forgeworld line. Presumably it’ll be more extensive than Aeronautica Imperialis, but it’s still a far cry from the exposure GW gave Epic in its glory days.

        I’ll still jump in for sure – I think the models will be spectacular especially with that slight upscaling, but this feels like a real wasted opportunity.

  • orionburn

    Oi…cut them some slack. This is why they gave the specialist games over to FW. Yes, we all want plastic, but it’s expensive to do. Business wise it makes sense. Give the game a chance to get some legs and grow it from there. I’m happy that they are even taking the chance on bringing games back out like this and Battlefleet Gothic. They’re trying to bring back games that people want without breaking the bank. Is that really such a bad thing?

    And honestly being able to buy a bundle of the game rules and models I actually want is fine with me. Yes, it’s great when you have a friend to swap models with when you both buy a boxed set, but that isn’t always the case. I’d rather buy the models I want in a bundle deal than pay the same price and have to offload the ones I will never use.

    • pad_uk

      While I agree with you on most counts I will have to disagree about the plastic being expensive. More expensive than resin sure, but for a company the size of GW the molds for at least one or two basic Titans for a starter set should be easily do-able. Heck, my gaming club got a plastic figure produced to GIVE AWAY at our show. If a gaming club can afford that sort of investment, then surely GW can.

      • ZeeLobby

        At least for the starter. Even if the rest of the models were resin, you’d think they’d at least put up that effort. Im pretty sure the blood bowl starter will come with plastic minis (I could be wrong)

        • pad_uk

          It does. Pictures somewhere on this site I believe. But yeah, they should do plastic for a starter at least. I understand about further models after that being in resin though.

      • orionburn

        But technically this isn’t being released by GW…Forgeworld took over the specialist games. I honestly don’t know what the dollar to dollar is between plastic and resin molds these days. Would I like to see base plastic models with the option for different resin weapons? Yes. But in that sense they might as well do it all in plastic from the get go.

        With Blood Bowl are they reusing the old molds or is it all new models? I wonder as well how the rerelease of Battlefleet Gothic will be. My thought was that they would just use the original molds as long as they were still in good shape.

        • ZeeLobby

          Blood bowl is all new. I guess I’d have more belief in the resin is more affordable approach if they didn’t release store opening models or anniversary models in plastic recently. I mean those have to be extremely limited runs with little profitable return.

          • orionburn

            Okay, I’ll give you that…lol.

            That’s a fair point. I’ll never fully understand the way things work between GW & FW. Both seem to be firing on all 8 cylinders right now so I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

          • ZeeLobby

            They’re definitely pumping out releases left and right. I just think they’re missing an opportunity here. And I would hate to see a lack of Blood Bowl or HH levels of interest kill it before it gets expanded. Having plastic models in the starter would have been a huge boost to initial interest.

          • orionburn

            In the end things may end up changing. I don’t know if any of this is solid or if it’s still just rumors. Kind of like the “cloth” gamer mat…lol. No matter what I’m going to be in, and hopefully the interest will pull others in even if it isn’t a typical release for them.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha, very true. I still find a neoprene mat that you have to iron flat to be semi-ridiculous, but at least it’s not cloth. But you’re right, there could very well be plastic models included in the end. It’s still aways off.

    • edendil

      That would be more convincing if GW hadn’t splurged on going plastic for games with much less appeal than titanicus. They seem able to go plastic with just about anything these days.
      If they can do it for dreadfleet, then why on earth can’t they do it for titanicus?
      Makes no sense. Unless they deliberately want to set a high price point.

  • benn grimm

    Shame. Plastic boxed set would have given this a chance at mass appeal, sounds like they’ve relegated it to die a second slow death by non interest, just like they did the first time. Sad that they don’t seem to learn from their mistakes.

    • ZeeLobby

      It’s just crazy right. And in the process they’ll kill the chance of epic 40K ever existing again. It’s almost as if it’s planned. ” We want to spike their nostalgia and show a return to our roots without really having it succeed, so we don’t really have to support it.” Seems odd coming out of FW who usually care about long-term game support but i could see GW proper reasoning like this to prevent anything specialist games produces from outshining it’s offerings. God forbid Titanicus actually be a better game than 40K and eat into its sales.

      • Severius_Tolluck

        Never understood that mentality… As a company with share holders who only want to make more money… Why is it bad if you offer several offerings and one bites into the profits of the other. In the end if you make X amount of net profit gain, then you appeal to your share holders. The only thing I can see that worries them is cost of research and development not being paid off for one game if all the attention goes to another.. but that wont happen. The fan boys will gobble it all up!

        • ZeeLobby

          Even back before GW let go of much of it’s talent, there were internal power struggles. There was always a division between the designers and the managers back in the day. They kind of resolved it by pushing all of them out the door, lol. Alongside this there’s always been a division between GW proper and FW. A very us vs them mentality. FW model designers competing with GW model designers, etc. Although the same company, each section has it’s own independent hierarchy. There’s little crossover. In the end the higher ups make the call though. I’m not sure why it would be such a horrible thing if 40K was replaced with epic. Most likely it has something to do with pricing. I can charge a ton of money for a large walker that only takes up 1/5 of an army because it’s big. I’d have trouble justifying the same for a tank the size of my thumb, haha.

          • memitchell

            Allowing Epic (a game that already failed more than once (AT/Space Marine/Epic/Epic Armageddon) to weaken 40K (THE mainstay game) in any way, much less replace it (*shudder*) would be corporate malfeasance.

          • ZeeLobby

            Er… 40K is pretty week right now. Anecdotal, but a yearly 40K tournament I attend is now hosting Warmachine alongside it as 40K attendance has fallen off. At this point, I, and our gaming group, would love a 40K based gaming system that’s any improvement over 40K.

    • OldHat

      I mean, I am pumped for it. I love the idea of the scale and think it will be fun. The itty-bitty original Epic stuff looked… bad. Like painting Battletech stuff, it isn’t really fun. These should be much more fun to paint! I just hope it is well-supported.

      • ZeeLobby

        To be honest, the older range and battle tech are pretty poor models by today’s standards. DZC is a better example of what would be possible today, and those are pretty nice.

        • OldHat

          True, but I am still glad they up-scaled. DZC stuff looks interesting enough, but like other games on that scale, painting them is still meh to me.

          And no matter how much Btech stuff looks hokey, I still love my revamped sculpt of the Atlas they did… um… like a decade ago. Man, feeling old today!

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. Yeah. BTech has always interested me, but those models are from another age, lol.

          • OldHat

            Yea, Ironwind still makes them the old-fashioned way I think. Like… can we get some CAD in here? 3d print some stuff? Come on guys, bring Btech up to the 21st century!

            Still a great game though. Wish I had folks who wanted to play it locally. I miss getting my Steiner Scout Lance (Atlas, Zeus, Awesome, and Battlemaster) into the fray. 😀

          • Shinnentai

            DZC models (10mm) are still larger scale than the new Adeptus Titanicus will be (8mm) – it’s just that battle titans are a lot bigger than anything in DZC!

          • ZeeLobby

            It makes me really hope that they expand it to epic.

      • benn grimm

        I’m pretty excited about it, I just think it sucks that’s it’s not getting a plastic box set like Bloodbowl or Spacehulk, or any of the many ‘classic board games’ they’ve released recently. Epic died off through lack of support the first time, which led to less interest, which of course led to no support. I feel if they really get behind it, (from the start) and tied it in with 40k in a mass marketable kind of way, they could get so many more people on board. That would ensure longevity. Selling to the vets who already have epic armies or FW fanboys doesn’t seem the best way to achieve that.

    • edendil

      I fear that you are right about that.
      Still, I am gonna get me some sweet titan minis. Even if they do cost a bundle.

      • benn grimm

        I think I’m just going to wait and see how many others get involved before I buy anything. A nice looking Legio Mortis is something I’d quite happily shell out a tonne of cash for, but not for them to just sit on the shelf cause no one else plays.

    • MechBattler

      You can’t teach an old dog new tricks Benn. Or in this case, a fossilized dog skeleton. The guys running this company must be older than the dinosaurs if they’re this incapable of learning to just give people what they ask for.

      • benn grimm

        I think they saw the popularity of FW HH and thought they’d try and replicate it, at minimum risk, minimum outlay. I do think they’re missing a trick though. Epic could be a fantastic way to get kids into the hobby with potentially very cheap entry points, whilst at the same time bleeding the vets as they always have with new and awesome (little) giant robots.

  • ZeeLobby

    Er. They sound huge. Thanatar sized? Might as well just play 40K. Maybe in plastic it would have been more appealing, or if I didn’t have to buy a significant amount already. The advantage of Necromunda or mordheim is that you can kitbash existing models to form your gang/warband. All were missing there is new officially supported rules, background content and campaign material. With no real crossover for these I can’t imagine they’ll be overly popular. If they had at least kept it the same scale you might have seen people dig out their old models and maybe add to them.

    • OldHat

      I am OK with this. More detail appeals to the hobbyist in me.

      And think how big a damn Imperator will be! Like… Warhound sized?!

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. I mean it’s not horrible to do the scale change. I just think it might struggle finding legs when the legacy models don’t really fit and the starter has no models in it. I mean I get that they have always planned on it being niche, but it was actually pretty popular locally back in the day.

        • OldHat

          Legacy models? They haven’t made Epic in what? A decade? They are most definitely not trying to appeal to legacy players, but drag in folks like me who would have played it had it existed when I jumped into 40k, but didn’t get the chance. Plus, I prefer the scale choice on this one, so I am pretty excited overall.

          The idea that no titans are in the starter seems… dubious. Though hell, Battletech did it and I love that game. As long as they have something that can work as the model until a model is purchased, I won’t be too miffed.

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol. I don’t know why a decade seems so old… I’m pretty sure everyone I game with was playing 10 years ago as well.

          • Christopher Witecki

            Epic went out of print in 2013. So no, not ten years.

          • OldHat

            Still, it is a specialist game that hasn’t been in print for 3 years. I can imagine they want to revamp it a bit. I am down for models that are more fun to paint with better detail and a bit larger. Should look epic on the table! 😀

          • Christopher Witecki

            Oldhat, Ill be honest, in my opinion three years isn’t really a long time in miniature gaming terms. I still have models from ten years ago waiting to paint. It’s a lifetime hobby. But beyond it being an underhanded corporate move, I’d offer these two points.

            1. Games workshop is always telling stories about huge battles between armies and then making models to highlight individuals. This leaves no real way for the average gamer to play out the most important fluffy battles.

            2. Some people don’t want “the hobby” to be the dominant force in their life. Epic was a game that painted quickly, had a small storage foot print, was economical and allowed truly large battles to be played.

            More detail seems good, but it has disadvantages. Epic at 6mm paints easily and QUICKLY, but looks great. You have to paint 100 marines per company card so thousands of figures can become really time consuming the more detail you add. The bigger models actually look worse, at least in my opinion when the goal is reproducing he awesome battle art. Epic is supposed to look like an endless sea of troops. It really breaks the mirage to the bigger it gets.

            But really, changing scales is a classic GW slap in the face.

          • OldHat

            Sounds more like your opinions vs mine than any factual basis. On point 2, very specifically you do not want it to be a hobby, just a game. Well, I have zero reason to pick it up if the models are so small they have little detail. I don’t want quick-to-paint, I want labors of love.

            And I beg to differ on point one – we can play any battle, but maybe not on the scale you want.

            And changing of scales may be a creative decision to help distance themselves from companies now making 6mm scale stuff on the side. Blame them for the scale shift, no doubt, because GW probably felt the need to rejigger based on that factor in no small part.

            I am excited and hopeful either way. If people dig it, it might become the new Epic entirely. That could be awesome.

    • Christopher Witecki

      One of the main advantages to classic Epic is how easy it is to store and how massive a force you can deploy. Making it bigger is absurd and just a cash grab. This game should have returned as a 6mm plastic army sets and titan formation plastic boxsets. Changing the scales is like making your new system not backwards compatible for no good reason.

  • MightyOrang

    All the models are going to be resin, only available from Forge world, and then will be in the starter box?!?

    Sounds like a recipe for limited sales.

    • OldHat

      Yea, because the Horus Heresy is just a huge failure! 😀

      • ZeeLobby

        Ugh. You can’t completely ignore the 40K crossover… You’re better than that.

        • OldHat

          Apparently not! 😀

          • ZeeLobby

            Lol :D. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen more 40K Spartans than 30K Spartans. Releasing both HH rules and 40K rules for almost all of the HH lines quadruples it’s appeal.

      • MightyOrang

        That’s a fair point, but if you’re looking to maximize sales and why restrict yourself the resin when you could maximize the splash with a nice box set and plastics. It can’t be any harder than any of what they put out recently – – and even silver tower proved a success

        • OldHat

          They can’t do that for every single release. Silver Tower was a tie-in to a plastic game (AoS) that is supported by the main company. This new take on Epic is not a mainstream game. It is going to be for a different clientele – as specialist games tend to be. I can understand why they are going resin. Blood Bowl seems more like an exception than a rule.

  • Krizzab

    no models, prepare the lubricant….

  • Mike Salamandrin

    While it makes sense to make the subjugator available to both factions, I’ve always seen it as more of a giant daemon engine. It’s like finding out the mauler friend is based of an imperial bear robot.

  • Painjunky

    I want to get into this but no models in the “starter box” is a mistake.
    GW please fix ASAP or you’ll lose money on this.

    • kloosterboer

      Or…the starter box is genius, for those of us that have older collections of titans, and don’t need or want to start all over again in a new scale…

      • ZeeLobby

        my guess is that the mechanics will be built around the new scale though. So you’re either tweaking the rules to fit the scale, or you’re putting your titans on larger goofy looking bases.

        • kloosterboer

          I guess? I just don’t see what all the fuss is about, to be honest. Buy the rules…or don’t, let your mate buy ’em…and buy the kit you want.

          I’m a little disappointed that I have a large collection of older epic that won’t be compatible with anyone who buys new…But then again, I had a large collection of VHS..and then DVD….all of which is now digital and streaming. So…

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean it’ll just kill interest, and prevent new players who don’t have previous experience from entering the fray. There is no way I will be able to convince any of my friends to buy a force for a game they haven’t played yet. The starter box has always been a great introductory purchase. I just don’t want to have to buy the rules, and two factions, at full price to just see if they want to play.

            And yeah, I have binders of DVDs, lol. I should probably just throw them out at this point.

          • kloosterboer

            I don’t see it that way, but I suppose there are some that do.

            I will point out that making a starter set with plastic models in no way guarantees the success of the game.

          • ZeeLobby

            In no way “guarantees” the success, but I don’t think you could said that it wouldn’t help… Just look at the people commenting here.

          • memitchell

            Is this your tenth negative post, or is it an even dozen?

          • ZeeLobby

            I’m just having a discussion. I’m sorry our views might not align, but it’s nothing personal against you. Thanks for counting though!

          • memitchell

            It is not a coincidence the new scale will make your older models look puny, and not the other way around.

          • kloosterboer

            I think some exciting things will be done in the new scale.

            Alot has changed in the model making industry since the game was originally conceived.

            I don’t begrudge, it. It’s more like…wistful memories of my youth, when we’d drive to different cities on the weekends, hunting for the odd pack of models.

            Trust me, you REALLY had to want to play, back then. If the models were even made, they were scarce!

  • OldHat

    WANT WANT WANT WANT!

  • Davor Mackovic

    So it’s still the same old Games Workshop. All smoke and mirrors right now, but in the end, they are still money grabbing, bleed their customers as much as they can.

    Really, having a starter set with no miniatures in the box? This does sound like GW of old. So they haven’t changed at all. Hell if the minis will not be included in the “starter set” (how can you call it a starter set with no minis?) at least they can put the rules on the net for free then.

    If rules are free on the net, then I can maybe see this and you buy the “starter set” for fluff and scenery bits. This makes no sense. I guess this makes GW sense.

    Just lost interest in this now. Back to Battletech, at least we can make our own mechs.

    • palaeomerus

      Battletech is supposedly going to release an Alpha Strike box set with an Inner Sphere Company and a Clan Omnimech Binary as minis. And they are rumored to have the new Warhammer and other Unseen sculpts that actually look decent and resemble their Macross/Dougram roots without being too on the nose.

  • CthulhuDawg

    I was crazy excited for this…in plastic and available at my FLGS. W/e more money for Blood Bowl.

  • mgdavey

    Shouldn’t people withhold judgement on the “starter set” until we know the prices. How is a $200 starter set with models any better than a $80 starter set with models bought separately?

    • Shinnentai

      Because people wanted a starter set in mainstream GW tradition : ie rammed full of plastic models for bargain price point.

      What we’re getting is a new line of FW resin models instead – that’s great but they’re not going to be able to give such a great starter deal with their bundles because the economics of resin models are different to those of plastic (ie the higher initial base costs / lower per unit cost of plastic means pushing for sales volume).

  • Boondox

    The 1st Ed. of AT and the box of 6 Warlords were all plastic and they sold very well. I’ll go back to playing 1st Ed. than pay for this.

  • Emprah

    Starter set without models and just resin. This does NOT sound good.

  • Stan

    No starter set models ?!?!
    I thought GW was a miniature company?

    GW sure puts a nail in Epics coffin every time they mess with it.

  • palaeomerus

    Yeah this should have been a plastic treasure-chest game box set like Overkill and Silver Tower and such.

  • BloodAngel

    I hope they realize that by putting out a box with everything you need to play EXCEPT the actual titans is just going to breed 3rd party models and lose them sales. I, for one, depending on the costs associated, would probably use proxies for titans unless I thought there was a very strong reason and cost effective (which Forgeworld almost never is) units or bundles to buy. Especially when first getting a starter set, to see if you really want to expand into a full version of the game.
    Very disappointed if they have no plastic to start with.

  • BloodAngel

    I also really hope this isn’t the direction that a remake of Epic or even BFG will be taking. I was hoping for new, cool plastic, now that plastic is so much better than in the past.
    I ordered Forgeworld Grey Knights for Epic (ended up selling them with the rest of my collection) but they were very breaky, fiddly, fragile things. Every single halberd broke off. I think resin is the wrong medium for miniatures this small.

  • Christopher Witecki

    People who say GW has changed should take note of this scale change. Epic was available as late as 2013 and lots of people still play it. Changing the scales is a dirty trick.

    • BloodAngel

      I am not going to disagree with that. It would make most people need to buy everything new, except those stubborn peeps who refuse to recognize scale change and use their existing armies.
      I do hope that with the scale change, there would be a better quality of sculpts and details that 6mm just can’t have. I think going all resin is a huge turn off to me and to a lot of other people.
      I hope they listen to their customer base

      • Christopher Witecki

        On the Epic groups I’ve noticed people are saying they will just continue with 6mm. I know I will. Epic is a whole army system so for Epic players it would be like if 40k was cancelled then brought back at 35mm three years later. If you were 6 armies into your collection like me, is it really worth it to dump it and start over. Some have said they may get some titans, but for tanks and infantry, there’s no point. I have the entire blood angels chapter modelled. It’s likely to just create yet another 8mm market running parallel.
        I totally agree about the Resin,It’s carcinogenic, brittle, expansive, hard to work with. I have no interest in it.
        As for the sculpts, something to consider is that Epic is for company level warfare and so less detail is a good thing and there by design. At first it made me nervous and “too small” but after my first painting session an battle, I was hooked. Something people don’t consider is how much more painting time comes with the extra detail at scales around 10mm. Epic 6mm paints up very quickly and looks fantastic. At table distance the troops blend together and it actually looks like armies and truly Epic conflicts. 40k always has this strange look to it like there are way too few troops and vehicles at the “battle”. Small scale gaming is really underrated. It’s a shame they didn’t choose to continue and improve Epic with the help of a dedicated and reinvigorated established player base. Instead they choose to alienate the only people who would have been completely interested in buying new Epic models. People say they have changed, but to me, this is completely typical of the old GW bag of tricks.

  • Thatroubleshootah

    A box set w/ no minis? Minis produced only in resin at FW prices? Probably pass on this.

  • TenDM

    As much as I want a big stand alone box I can open and play with right away, I’m sort of warming to the idea of rules only box sets. I’m not sure how reasonable the prices will be since it’s FW, but I’m willing to pay at least a little extra if it means I get two factions I actually want. Likewise I get the full kits with all their options and exactly the units I choose. I mean how often do we complain these box sets have stuff no sane player would ever bring to the table?

  • MechBattler

    Nothing in the starter box, no plastic, sold by Forge World…
    Did anybody else’s soul just die a little?

  • Raffazza

    I need this game in my life…

  • Boondox

    Is Kirby running FW now? This sounds like one of his crackpot business decisions….