Chaos Legions Codex: GW Contents Video

csm-legions-horz

GW is rolling out the details on Codex Chaos Legions – the book EVERYONE is dying to get their hands on.

via GW 11-19-2016

“December also sees more books on the way that all Chaos Space Marine and Imperial commanders should immediately be adding to their Gift Lists. We’ll have more details on all of these for you soon, but for the moment, here’s a tantalising glimpse into the covers of the future:”

 

That’s all nine legions in there – and a date of December 3rd.

traitor-legions

More Intel

Reader Redemption dropped this info into the comments yesterday.  This reads as a retailer product description, and isi n keeping with everything that has been reported on the new supplemental codex:

 

TRAITOR LEGIONS 
‘Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions – the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor’s light. (avail 10 Dec)

 

~Death to the false emperor!

 

  • Ryan Freivalds

    As excited as I am for any CSM additions, I fear it’s just the treatment daemons got–
    The only new units included will likely be datasheets for the new Rubric marines and Tzangores, and unless the formations for the cult troops hand out freebies left and right (like a war convocation) I can barely see this changing the state of affairs for CSM.

    • Koonitz

      It’s wonderful how, even when Chaos gets EXACTLY what they want (rules for the Legions, in this case, which Chaos has asked to receive for YEARS), they still complain.

      • Hawt Dawg

        That’s the Chaos…

      • Eisai

        Ambition is the main drive of all best worshipers!

      • Thomas Gardiner

        We want a decent Codex.

        “How about another supplement?”

        No, we just want a good Codex.

        “THIS SUPPLEMENT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED FOR!”

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah, it’ll just be another thing that people will shove in our face and claim that we’re just complainers because we “got what we wanted”.

        • I guess I disagree, I could care less how “good” the rules are, all I’ve wanted for years is legion rules

          • Corey Kershaw

            Hi 30k here

          • I’m really not interested in 30K until they give us post-destroyer virus rules for Death Guard. I don’t want to play renegade astsrtes, I want to play servants of nurgle

      • Karru

        I am happy that I get CSM version of the AoD, but you still have to take into consideration a major fact here. The CSM codex is very bad. Pretty much everything in it is overpriced, no amount of supplements is going to fix THAT problem. Yes, after long last we see Legion rules and I am not complaining even if the rules themselves are not exactly good. If they completely disregard the fluff for some legions like Iron Warriors and make them take things like Possessed and increase their chances on the Boon table, then I’m going to complain.

        As long as the rules we get are fluffy, I’ll be happy. As for other CSM players, I get exactly where they are coming from. CSM codex is very bad, everything in it is overpriced and supplements aren’t a fix for that. What is a fix is getting a new codex.

        • Perturabo

          You might want to check that fact about Iron Warriors and not having Possessed 😉

          • Karru

            When did they start using them? Last time I heard they detest Daemons. What did I miss! DDDD:

          • Perturabo

            You missed the Codex: CSM from the 4th edition 😉 That glorious masterpiece explained, that Iron Warriors are able to bind the demonic energies into kybernetic augmentations thus creating their own quite unique looking Possessed 😉
            I used some spare Necron parts back in the days when I built my own unit =)

          • Karru

            Where? Can I get the page? I haven’t read it for a looooooong time since I managed to lose my copy until I found it again while I moved around 3 months ago.

          • Perturabo

            Page 41, 2nd paragraph after the IW fluff 😉 I would take a picture but I only got the German codex 😉

          • Karru

            Does the german version have a different layout? Page 41 in the 4th edition CSM book is the Defiler and a small box about the Shadowhive. There is no mention of Iron Warriors anywhere.

          • Perturabo

            That’s 5th edition you’re having there 😉
            Copyright needs to be from 2002, yours should be 2007.

          • Yep, that’s 3.5, there was no 5th ed CSM codex

          • Karru

            That explains a lot! 😀

            I was so confused, it is indeed the dreaded 3.5 codex not the 4th edition one!

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, you notice over the years that the legions that used to exclude certain things have had their fluff retconned to include them. It makes sense from a business standpoint. They want to sell those possessed boxes.

          • Karru

            I mean, it doesn’t sound that insane. Considering that after Iron Warriors turned traitor, it would make sense that they’d be more “egotistical” and thus believe that no one can stop them or is beyond them. Yes, they detest Daemons, but in this situation it looks like they are enslaving them to do their bidding. Normal Possessed willingly allow the Daemons to take control.

          • ZeeLobby

            I’m definitely not saying that you couldn’t justify it in the fluff. Just that it’s clear that GW will write the fluff/rules to maximize sales. Kind of like the whole allies system. It’s left really open ended to justify the purchase of anything for anyone.

          • Perturabo

            While you would be right any other day, you’re wrong today 😉
            Simple reason is that there was no possessed box at the time when the codex was released. I think it came together with the spawns back in 2005 (?) which would be at least 3 years after the codex. At the time being, we only had a generic CSM box including a small mutation sprue that could be used to build mutated champions or possessed. There were some really old tin possessed but I’m pretty sure they were at best mailorder only at this time.

            And of course as was already said – IW despise demons and mutations so their possessed would rather be a combination of necrons & AdMech bits mixed with CSM sprues instead of using the possessed box which looks rather organic.

          • georgelabour

            Except we have Storm of Iron featuring Iron Wariors being warped by the demons that posses them. Though for the most part those were basically khorne berserkers we still see drips and drabs of it elsewhere.

            I’m pretty sure that the possessed as a unit type were added long after that particular novel was written.

            It was also written before IW got their optional army (basilisk heavy) list in 3rd edition. Which was also around the time their fluff was expanded beyond ‘do siege well, hate the fists wear fancy chevrons’.

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            Yeah I remembering Honsou getting possessed.

        • Jared van Kell

          The Iron Warriors don’t have possessed per se but they instead imbue daemons into some of their more elaborate bionics.

      • Karru

        Also, CSM players aren’t getting EXACTLY what they want. Yes, they want Legion rules, but the most single wanted thing that is shared by all CSM players is useful, internally balanced and competitive codex. Current codex isn’t that.

        • GW doesn’t write internally balanced codexes though, they throw rules at the wall and you either have an OP mess or a subpar codex. I’d much rather be subpar than have a book that makes my opponent sigh and cringe when I pull my list out

          • Charon

            You can tone down an “OP mess”. You can’t spice up a subpar codex.

          • Karru

            GW can write an Internally Balanced Codex. It’s the Eldar codex. Before you start saying that it’s only that because it is so OP and all that, that is part of the truth but let’s look at some other details as well.

            Almost no unit is useless. All units have a role to fill and have different strengths and weaknesses. Some units outshine the others, like Jetbikes compared to Guardians. That doesn’t mean that Guardians are useless. I use mine on a regular basis to great effect. I also use Rangers and I have 0 bikes in my army.

            Wraithlords aren’t useless either, but you don’t see them fielded since the Wraithknight is so badly underpriced that it would be insane to not take one instead of the Wraithlord. This does not mean that the Wraithlord is useless, it is still tough as heck thanks to the Toughness 8 and 3+ save.

            Then you compare it to the CSM codex for example and realise you have no reason to take CSM squads since the Plague Marines outperform them in every battlefield role they compete in. CSM squads have to be at least 10 models to have 2 special weapons, Plague Marines can have 2 right out of the gate. They are Toughness 5 and have FNP, something that CSM squad cannot get, they can get one or the other. This is an example of a very bad internal balance.

      • Mike Salamandrin

        I’m planing on avoiding BoLS when Imperial Agents hits, and the Chaos fans whine about not getting as many new models as the Imperials… again, and the Sisters fans complain their plastic models are tied to a Inquisition codex…XD

        • Nyyppä

          Why do you think getting new models matters when even the old ones can not be used in games?

        • Muninwing

          tzeentch chaos are going to be ecstatic and won’t complain, unless it turns out that they get shafted again (but get nice models!). others, if they are decently done, won’t complain too much (or at all).

          but will that happen?

          will someone be able to roll out a legion remnant army they used to play in 3rd ed with some fun new extras? or will this be as lackluster as ineffective as nearly everything chaos has gotten in the last decade?

          and… what about the other one?

          if Sisters get new models (about damn time) and they have new non-terrible rules, and they are reasonably playtested to be decently balanced… then who cares? it benefits the game.

          • Mike Salamandrin

            There are people that want a fully functioning, stand alone Sisters Codex (read the SoB rumor articles and comments on SoS during the Fall of Prospero release, if you don’t belive).
            I played Chaos in third and any perception that it was anything but lackluster is pure nostalgia. It was a Space Marine variant codex with a couple metals, upgrade frames, and special rules to differentiate it. The legion special rules were not impressive from a fluff veiw either. I would have killed for a Warpsmith, Helldrake, Lord of Skulls, Renegade knight, or Mauler back then.

          • Muninwing

            heck, *I* want a standalone sisters codex, and new models and units!

            as for chaos back in the day… i LOVED my Word Bearers back then. i had an army based on starting in round 2… aspiring terminator champ with a summoning banner, chaos lord with a pack of raptors, and summoning spam back before they were free… i’d roll up with 10-12 daemon packs that would pour out and overwhelm my opponent. i loved it.

            what people miss from that codex is what people attracted to chaos would like — freedom, customizability, and odd ritualistic aspects that make sense in-theme. the adaptability of the player to create specific functional armies that were for all intents and purposes completely separate options — just like you can play Iron Hands and Imp Fists as different options, so too could you run chaos differently back then, instead of just a kludge with some general builds that work and very little actual ability to play well.

      • ZeeLobby

        I mean really what CSM want is a new codex. A whole bunch of formations and crap do little when your basic units are still overcosted and under-perform.

        • Mike Salamandrin

          Giving rules to offset that cost should be an improvement

          • ZeeLobby

            True, but sometimes I just like to run a CAD. I don’t want to have a faction where I feel like I NEED to take formations to be relevant. They should be what they were meant to be, alternative ways to represent your own fluffy army. Not ways to fix something broken.

            It also adds to this whole pre-game issue of, well his formations are broken so you can’t take those, but i need mine because my units are bad, but now I have to justify why I need mine and he can’t take his, etc.

            A new book with appropriately costed troops AND this supplement would be exactly what we wanted.

          • Mike Salamandrin

            While it states there will be formations, it also states their will be Legion Rules. You might just get a prohibition on what units you can take for a legion with free Universal Special Rules or special rules in return

          • Nyyppä

            So, essentially what SM get without restrictions.

          • Mike Salamandrin

            Assuming they limit access to daemons and Imperial tanks/superheavies, and titans to legions appropriate to them.

          • Nyyppä

            Daemons are allies = little to no matter at all.

            Chaos marines do not use “imperial” things. If they did there was a chance they could actually challenge the loyalists. 😀

          • Mike Salamandrin

            They have access to “renegade Knights”. Proper Iron Warriors would have access to “Renegade” versions of Imperial tanks/superheavies. While expanding cultist like the Stealer variety would make sense.

          • Jared van Kell

            They should at least get the Basilisk back again.

          • Mike Salamandrin

            My guess and hope is they will follow the Deathwatch/Stealer Cult pattern and release a Basilisk or the Manticore/Deathstrike with a Generic Chaos Cultist upgrade frame

          • Jared van Kell

            It needs to be crewed by Iron Warriors not mortals. Mortals are weak fodder for the enemy’s guns and weakness is not tolerated in the Iron Warriors.

          • Mike Salamandrin

            If I was going by fluff books, they would be daemon possessed and chained in position. If I’m going by the last two army releases, repackaged kits with an upgrade frame to create “new” units makes sense. There is nothing stopping them from popping them in a pack of scions, skitarii, or guard to expand the Chaos Cultist entry; nor making minotaur/ogre/ogryn upgrade frames to make mutants.

          • ZeeLobby

            While Imperials have no limits to any of their allies regardless of what chapter they are. Ugh, I can already see the justification for an underpowered book in progress.

          • ZeeLobby

            That sounds horrible, lol. Why not just get extra rules for free like the good guy counterparts.

          • Mike Salamandrin

            The Space Marine do have that; they’re called the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels

          • Nyyppä

            What are any of those 3 paying for their special rules?

          • ZeeLobby

            Hey, BA lose all the good SM units and then get sucky special rules. I guess that justifies doing the same to all CSM legions.

          • Muninwing

            they pay for their specials by losing Chapter Tactics and gaining their own version. and they pay for their new units by losing broader options (such as centurions, a ton of vehicles, etc) and gaining some specialist stuff.

            so it’s less “pay” and more “trade”

            it’s not a terrible trade if they are an army whose design or fluff you love. but if you really want all the toys you have to choose.

          • Nyyppä

            Sounds pretty accurate.

          • ZeeLobby

            Hey, if you’re telling me they’ll do whole codexes with tons of extra options, traits, wargear, universal rules and formations for even just 4 of the traitor legions, I’d take that. This book will be comparable to Codex: Adeptus Astartes, not 4 independent codexes.

          • Koonitz

            You are correct that it’s not the same, but, considering how we have a “Khorne Daemonkin” and likely are soon to have an equivalent “Tzeentch Daemonkin”, it’s getting there.

          • ZeeLobby

            Which is definitely an awesome thing. I’m just hedging my bets that all this will do is turn the volume up to 8, while the Imperium equivalent will turn it up to 11, cause Chaos…

          • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

            I strongly suspect this is the new rules for Tzeentch.

          • Muninwing

            no.

            redo them. too expensive is too expensive.

            i’d rather get actual equivalence than band-aids.

            compare GK strike squads and Thousand Sons… once you cross out the pairing of similar rules, TS are +3 points for fewer options and less effectiveness.

            but sure, adding on little extras is the way to make them effective.

      • Christie Bryden

        well ruels for them that arent a pile of crap. key thing is, if they are based on those terrible CSM rules they are bad. price drops all around (becouse they are over costed right now) and to actualy feel like its one of the legions you are using.

      • Charon

        HAve you read it already to confirm it is EXACTLY what CSM players want? Is it a new codex?

        • Koonitz

          Chaos players wanted special rules for the core traitor legions, akin to what Space Marines get for their chapters. Within this book are “army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions”.

          Sounds identical to the Angels of Death supplement for Space Marines. You may sit on your hands and wait and see, but at this point, I’d put bets down that “army special rules” is spot on to Chapter Tactics.

          Sure, sure, whine, moan and complain that it’s not a revamped Codex, but make no mistake, this is EXACTLY what Chaos players asked for.

          • Painjunky

            No it isn’t.
            CSM players have been asking for a codex that is NOT a pile of flaming garbage.

          • Charon

            It is no new codex, so it is not what we asked for. You are right about the legion rules but we asked for them in a new codex, not in a supplement which uses the same garbage stats and point costs.
            Pouring a bit sugar over a pile of crap does not make it a cake.

      • Painjunky

        You have no idea what your talking about.
        .
        A supplement just before a new addition is NOT what CSM players have been asking for!

        • It’s literally exactly what I’ve been asking for. I love the CSM codex, I just want a supplement that gives me legion rules to run my CSM, I definitely don’t want another codex yet, the current one is only 4 years old, i miss the days when codexes went 5-7 years between updates

    • Muninwing

      looks like THousand SOns get new stuff.

      and other legions save Black Legion (luna wolves/sons of horus) have a couple units… but they do not have current setups for other legions.

      which makes me wonder why there are nine, if BL is easily handled in their own complete supplement…

  • Nice to see more soft backs, I hope all codes go this way.

  • A decade over due. My expectations given recent releases couldn’t be lower. Hopefully GW surprises me and my Word Bearer’s will be something other than a demon summoning list.

    • Daniel Hall

      What? What? who what where when bad releases? Minus traitors hate; everything else has been stellar.

      • euansmith

        I guess that Traitors’ Hate is the relevant volume for CSM playersto base their expectations on.

        • ZeeLobby

          And what stinks is that it’s all still hampered by the overcosted core units.

      • Nyyppä

        Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter, KDK….. Stellar?

        • ZeeLobby

          KDK was manageable, if you ignored about 3/4 of the book.

          • Nyyppä

            If you treated it as codex Khorne Daemons. Sure. That works.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha, basically.

  • Hmm. Curious but cautious. I hope the Iron Warriors won’t just get Basilisk and a few formation. I really hope for some special hardware or some new unit rules.

  • Arthfael

    I may have missed it, but saw no Alpha Legion icon in the trailer(?)

  • Eisai

    No Alpha Legion? Oh wait, there is no Alpha Legion.

    I don’t know is it a bad sign that there is no Alpha Legion, or is it a joke of the WarhammerTV, they seem like fun guys.

    • Koonitz

      The description says rules for all 9 traitor legions. Was Alpha Legion one of the 9 traitor legions? If so, then yes, they will get rules.

      • Eisai

        Ok. It was just the lack of the symbol-in-the-clip notion 🙂

      • ZeeLobby

        Yeah. I think he was referencing the video clip which left them out accidentally.

        • Koen Diepen Van

          I don´t think that is an accident

          • ZeeLobby

            I’d hope not.

    • Countdiscount

      On the FB page, GW answered that question and said Alpha Legion was in the book too,

      • ZeeLobby

        LoL. So they just forgot it in the video? That’s sad. I guess it could have been a tongue in cheek for them being so secretive.

        • Since the video was produced by Warhammer TV and those dudes definitely seem to have the pulse of the 40k community, I’m definitely betting on intentional

    • ReverendTiberiusJackhammer

      Would love to see Alpha Legion as a separate supplement, including the general Warlord Traits and relic, but also rules about how to use those traits/relics with both CSM and some Imperial ‘dexes, to represent the incredibe variety of forces and tactics used by the Alpha Legion.

    • Yup, seems like cheekiness of the highest order, well played gentlemen

  • dinodoc

    So is the BL supplement no more?

    • Fluffy the destroyer

      ….did you miss the ‘for each legion’ bit?

      • dinodoc

        So does this render the BL supplement redundant or not?

        • Karru

          No.

        • Fluffy the destroyer

          OH
          my bad sorry i massively misred what you posted
          sorry! 🙂

        • CMAngelos

          It renders the BL supplement a different Suppliment. Though chances are it’s information will be transferred over to this one like other supplements did for Angels of Death.

          Will it be redundant? Prolly not, since they were still the Sons of Horus at the end of the Heresy they may be releasing rules for them as opposed to just “the back legion” but I may very well be wrong too.

  • Nyyppä

    That’s it? Wow, what a let down…

    • euansmith

      I rather liked the sound effects.

      • Nyyppä

        The video was fine if you do not count the utter lack of actual information.

        • euansmith

          In its defence, it is a teaser, and probably contains more coherent information than the next Presidential Acceptance Speech.

          • Karru

            Are you trying to say that the man who makes the best speeches, which he knows, I know and everyone knows for a fact, won’t give people enough information?

          • Big league!

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. Too true.

  • Horus84cmd

    My my my. The GW social media team and really driving the narrative across the interwebs and miniature gaming sites

    • ZeeLobby

      I’m all for it. So much better than only knowing what next week held. I’m glad their forecasting a little bit.

      • I honestly can’t believe they stuck to their old release cycle as long as they did, this is so much better, for one i can plan my hobby budget much better now

  • Brandon Rutter

    hmm, I will accept 136 pages, but I wanted a 300 pager. For each.

  • Adrien Fowl

    I do not believe we are getting models for all the nine traitor legions, although that would be impressive. In any case, getting models for the four major Legions and a nice new box for the normal Chaos Space Marines would be great, especially after seeing what they have done with the Thousand Sons.

    We could at least get updates (shoulder pads, heads, etc.) for Nightlords, plz?

    • I don’t think there are any CSM minis slated to release this year, so I wouldn’t expect anything other than the 1k sons for now

      • Commissar Molotov

        They needed the update the most, I guess.

  • Dan Wilson

    I would imagine/hope that this supplement provides some army wide special rules, formations etc, which then leaves room for them to tease an updated csm book for 8th which will update csm data whilst still allowing this supplement to be used.

    • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

      By all the Gods I hope so.

      If this is not true, I will sacrifice the beating heart of a Furbie to Malal outside GW HQ and damn them all!

      Whhhhooooohahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

      • Have you seen the Malal (er…malice) daemons that got produced for the Pantheon of Chaos kickstarter?

        • Knight_of_Infinite_Resignation

          No, thanks for the heads up, will check that out.

    • Admiral Raptor

      I’m hoping there will be no need for a new CSM codex in 8th. Just a grand alliance book for Chaos.

  • Kaylum Dicks

    It’s interesting that the Thousand Sons are on this codex cover as well.

  • memitchell

    It is so refreshing to find folks so enthusiastic about quelling ANY enthusiasm about something they have for so long been complaining they needed desperately. Finding fault based on…well, who needs wait for facts?

    • Nyyppä

      It’s still based on a book that can not produce reasonably good lists no matter what staple on rules you add to it.

  • Huntard

    Remember how some previous supplements changed the costs of certain units to fall better in line with the codexes around them? I find it fascinating that noone in this thread can even fathom that as a concept when discussing how this codex wont solve the ‘big issues with CSM’. They’ve changed prices before, they’re perfectly capable of doing so again.

    Nearly no army is built with just one codex anymore and Chaos as an overall faction has access to an insane amount of options between: Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, Khorne Daemonkin, IA 13, Renedage Knights, Chaos Knights, Traitor’s Hate, Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion. Yes, certain armies like Eldar, Tau and Space Marines can stand alone but every other army and even those three usually pull things from other armies or books to make themselves work better. Limiting yourself to one base codex for army construction for the past couple years now is playing with only a fraction of the options available to you and if you’re limiting yourself like that and still losing the issue is you, not the game.

  • Anasa

    I feel the warp overtaking me! It is a good pain…

  • Emperor’s Champion

    I’m slightly upset by this, not because I’m a CSM player, never done so, but I was hoping the traitor legions would get their own individual books. But this still looks fun despite me sole devotion to tzeentch and no other.

  • Admiral Raptor

    This would have been fantastic if it had released a year and a half ago. Now we’ve got somewhere around three to five months to enjoy it before the reboot of 8th.

  • I think your timeline is muddled, 4 years ago was November 2012, the only 6th ed codex was CSM (Daemons came out in Jan 2013) and the first formations were still more than a year away. 2 years ago Necrons came out and ushered in the new style

  • mysterex

    Night Lords need a rule where, if the enemy issues a challenge, the target and his whole unit get a free shot at the challenger before combat starts – because that’s the way they really operate.