Goatboy’s 40k: Ding Dong 7th is Dead!

 

7th Edition is headed towards the grave. Here’s why I’m happy to see it go, and looking at the bright future.

I originally wrote some small bit of 7th edition list nonsense with my updated Death Guard list but with the announcement of 8th edition it made that article seem well – a bit pointless.  If you are living under a rock and haven’t heard – GW announced a new edition of 40k coming in the next few months.  There isn’t a lock in date but a rumor of a big block of “no vacation” for GW store managers in June makes me think will see it then. Plus they can only have so many weeks of AOS releases without a 40k release and a new edition means no more “current” 40k releases in store so its pretty easy to figure it out.  This is pretty dang exciting because I for one am very tired of 7th edition.  In fact – this will probably derail me from getting started on a ton of AOS stuff as my first true miniature love is 40k.  Plus I lost my AOS buddy in town who would have pushed me to get beaten by his dang Khorne legions all the time.

So many rules… You won’t be missed.

7th Edition – I’m Conflicted

I am very excited about the new game as I have felt the lack of excitement for 40k lately.  The sheer amount of rules, bad interactions between different books, and the dread of facing something for 2 hours that you have no hope against made me drop most events for the year.  With 7th ending soon and most likely those events switching to 8th means I have some events to go out too and a year of exciting games coming.  Now this isn’t saying that 7th edition was completely bad.  I did have a lot of fun with it.  In fact if you just played it for fun without some of the broken combos – it worked out pretty well.  I think the biggest issue with the game is that it just didn’t scale well.  To play at the top levels you had to have an extreme ability to use a certain aspect of the rules.  Either you over ran the board with “free” stuff, over powered a specific phase of the game, or ignored anything your opponent did.  It was a complete sand box play set and that was the biggest issue with it.

Imagine this – but with a Marine!

Looking Ahead

The return of 3 levels of play into 40k is a good thing as it did wonders for AOS.  Of course as I am a competitive player at heart – I only really look at the competitive side of things.  This means I want some kind of balance either in army build, army abilities, or missions and rules to help ensure I feel like I have to win with skill versus getting the perfect roll of powers & abilities.  If AOS is any indication then I expect the spells, powers, warlord traits will be locked in and choosable when you build your army.  This will help clean up the initial set up of a game and remove the whole – hey I rolled ever power I need and you got crap so why even play this game we have right now.

Of course we can only have balance if we rebuild the entire game from the ground up by fixing all the unit rules and it looks like we got our wish.  The 8th Edition FAQ says all old books are dead. This is exciting because I thought the only way to truly balance the game is start over as the rules were too all over the place and too hard fix.  It also makes sense why the initial FAQs let you play with both sets of rule books instead of locking in the newest is the only one to use.  How many Elite Iron Priests are there out there?  Why didn’t they just change the name for the HQ Iron Priest to like the Mega Iron Priest?  I also like how the new rules will be free – just like AOS.  This probably means will see an app for the game with all the unit rules, ways to buy the formation rules, and most likely a good army builder.  An official army builder that is updated with new releases sounds amazing.  Plus we could have a “living” set of rules that could be updated and balanced every year in hopes to keep this game balanced, fresh, and fun.  Heck they even said FW would have their rules updated too.

Imagine these – but with Imperium, Chaos & Xenos. OH YEAH!

Word on the Grapevine…

The chatter I have heard about the game is it plays faster, easier to pick up, and a move towards a higher point level at the old 5th level of 2000 pts.  If they removed free vehicles and other options then a push to 2000 seems fine.  It lets you fill out some units hopefully and make sure you are getting the extra “vehicles” you need to push your guys around.  Plus it sounds like vehicles will finally get better instead of being all of nothing things (Imperial Knights) or only there because they are free (Battle Company’s buy one get one free mentality).  I for one am stoked to see if Dreadnoughts finally get their day.  Plus the idea that you can assault out of vehicles again could really refresh a lot of armies out there too.

I am hoping will see more previews and release notes from the Warhammer Community site.  It sounds like they are finally embracing the idea of keeping the community involved as well as making sure to generate excitement for the release.  I think the company was lucky they make some of the best massed produced models in the game and finally embracing the game aspect of their product will help keep the company moving forward.  Games are sounding like they will move faster which is great for streaming content.  It got boring watching someone “roll” up their army and take forever.  Heck I am just excited to see a new set of rules for my Orks and maybe finally get a chance to throw them on the table top.

WE’RE BACK – maybe…

~What are you excited about with the new edition?  Are you worried your army investment is ruined?  Are you tired of all the terrible combos out there?  When will this dang Deathguard book come out?  Will Abbadon finally win something?

 

  • No codexes? General overview of points/rules? templates/markers out of production?
    I don’t really like this new edition

    • Ak318

      Well they will have codexes (even AoS has them) though they will either be codexes as we know them know just with the stats updated for the new ed. Or they will be like AoS where they will be optional and mainly contain formations and extra rules to encourage a themed army.

      Points being generallised and not wargear specific will only occur if they follow AoS exactly (Last I checked nothing from GW said this would or would not be occuring) though i will say list building in AoS is much simpler and therefore quicker because of it. And balance does not seem to be lost as they still have weapon restrictions in the actual unit stats section.

      Having played with no templates it does really speed up game play and the amount of arguments over who is under the template and silliness of templates hit every level of the building will no longer be a thing.

    • ZeeLobby

      Im totally on board with faction books being fluff. I will miss templates though. While a huge source of arguments at events, it made spacing and positioning tactically important. I enjoyed that.

      • Karru

        Not only that, it made template weapons actually be anti-horde. Now templates will most likely be great against single models because following the AoS route means they will be xD6 hits. That would be my only gripe about the system change when it comes to templates. I personally would like to see them just go with the same way WarmaHordes handle their templates or even how Flames of War does it.

        The template doesn’t scatter if you successfully roll to hit just like regular shooting in the case of WarmaHordes. If you fail, you move the template to a predetermined direction by following the arrows on top of the template, 1-6 are the directions. Very simple, very quick.

        Flames of War on the other hand just places the template and you roll to hit for each model under the template after you successfully “range in” with your artillery. The template doesn’t scatter. If you fail to range in, which is three attempts, you just don’t do anything. Targets under the template are harder to hit depending on how many attempts it took for you to succeed.

        Both are nice systems, Flames of War also has this slight advantage of having a square template instead of a round one. It just makes it silly to me that weapons that are meant against groups of enemies are more lethal to singular models.

        • ZeeLobby

          Wow. That’s a great point I never even considered. If vehicles are going the wound route they’ll have to do something, maybe have 2 armor modifiers? Otherwise the flamer has just become the new landraider killer, lol.

          • Karru

            Yeah, that’s the problem I have with it.

            It surely speeds things up but it stops making sense when you realise that those “crowd control” weapons are more effective against single targets than hordes.

            Let’s say I had a flamer and fired it against a unit of Boys. Let’s say the Flamer does D6 hits. That would be 4 on average. Now that same number of attacks can be done against a Deff Dread or a Deffkopta.

            It just makes AoE weapons less reliable on crowd control duty. Sure, they can roll more hits than a weapon that fires less than 6 shots, but it still doesn’t make that much sense. There is also the eternal risk of rolling a 1 or a 2 for the amount of hits. At that point you’d be better of with Bolters for example.

          • TexBlade

            Simple fix, template weapons cannot cause more wounds to a unit than models currently in the unit.

          • ZeeLobby

            Makes sense. I think they probably need to be at least 2D6 hits to reach the horde killing capabilities they once had as well.

          • JdM

            the trebuchet in AoS would be the counter example here. It does not need to role to hit if the unit it targets has 7 or more models in it. They make things that are meant for AoE in AoS as well, and it works. Things designed to do a thing, will have rules adjusted to do that thing better. I can hit a Hero with the Trebuchet… but I get more out of hitting a horde of troops.

          • Karru

            BaronVonYoloing gave me a nice comment regarding the way different AoE weapons work in AoS. They seem to vary a lot.

            As I said to him, I was looking at things that used to be templates, like the Dragonfire. Now you pick a target and roll a dice, that dice determines the amount of Mortal Wounds the unit takes. This is the thing I didn’t really want to see, but now I know that there are varied styles they represent AoE in the game.

          • NikosanPrime

            I would disagree here. The first thing you are forgetting is that a framer will not affect most vehicles, or if it does then at best on a roll of a 6. For example a Rhino will probably be T7 or T8: if it’s T7 then the Framer will need a 6 to damage it and if it’s T8 then it won’t be able to. Unless they go with the always damage on a 6 thing, which I’m not a fan of.

            Anywyas, the point is that I’d rather take that flamer against a unit of marines that I have a 50-50 chance of damaging and take my chances with their armour save than risk it on a vehicle.

            Now all of this being said, high Str blast weapons hitting vehicles is another matter, but honestly that’s the way it should be. If a high explosive artilery shell hits a vehicle I expect it to have a good chance of blowing it completely to bits. And I would cheer for the vehicle if it survived.

          • EnTyme

            Look at the way a Zombie Dragon’s breath weapon works for a better example of how a flamer would work in this system. You don’t roll to-hit with it. Instead, you roll a die, and if you roll equal to or lower than the number of models in the unit, you roll damage.

        • BaronVonYoloing

          The only thing I would like to state is how you describe flamers is NOT how it works currently in AoS.

          They get instant hits yes but its only typically equal to the number of models within the weapons range. So if I target 1 Land Raider then congrats I get 1 hit. Target that Gant mob and 18 are in range then thats the number of hits.

          While I will miss the template rules for the tactical manouvering you had to do in my group it has led to far too many arguments and time wasting. Especially when trying to agree on the exact direction of scatter.

          • ZeeLobby

            Haha. K. that makes more sense. But yeah. The scatter dice was the worst thing ever invented. I much prefer other systems’ handling of templates, like WMH 1-6 approach.

          • BaronVonYoloing

            Oh definitely. WMH makes it very sensible by having fixed directions. Although I prefer just generic multi shots rather than blasts. Just cuts out any and all arguments.

            Also you might have a way out of e-book edition books too (based on reading your comments lower down). In the more recent AoS “codexes” they have released cards with the same info as you would find on the app but condensed on A6 paper.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah, I mean I prefer all of that to the current librarian degree needed for 40K, haha.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            If templates did not scatter, then they would have to be much smaller (like in Bolt Action).

          • Karru

            Ah, thanks for enlightening and correcting me. I’ve only looked at rules that were templates in the earlier editions, for example Dragonfire. You just roll one D6 and depending on the roll you do certain amount of damage.

          • EnTyme

            And to me, that actually makes sense even against multi-wound models. They are typically large than singe wound models, so they would come into contact with more flame.

          • CDub

            “Tactical maneuvering” sounds a whole lot like “meticulously measuring 2″ unit coherency in my 30-model unit of termagants” which is time consuming and not fun for anybody.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Companies even made templates to make it faster.

    • wibbling

      Grief, you’ve not even seen it yet. Stop blithering on.

      There are army books for Age of Sigmar, likelihood is there will be for the latest of 40K.

      Get off your high horse.

  • The Rout

    I really cant wait for this! I currently need 6 books to run my army and i dont even use allies! (codex space wolves, champions of fenris, strongholds, death from the skies, curse of the wulfen and the BRB for reference). Just imagine using your smartphone instead, its almost like its 2017 or something…

    • ZeeLobby

      Having used my smartphone for years with WMH, I actually prefer physical. It’s ridiculous when you have to bring a charging hub for your table to plug into, and flipping through a digital reference or showing opponents rules can be tedious.

      That said, digital is the future. Just wish colored e-paper was a thing, and navigation was more booklike. Maybe im just old, haha.

      • Karru

        That’s my issue with digital products as well. Going through dozens of pages, even with bookmarks, gets tedious. Especially if you are building a list.

        “What did this weapon do again?”

        *scroll back 40 pages*

        “Okay, what does this rule mean?”

        *Open up another book and look for the rule*

        *Go back to the first book, continue and repeat*

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah. I’ve tried mitigating this with bookmarks, but at least in the current format I end up having almost as many bookmarks as pages. I guess if everything is now included on the Dataslate, it’ll be less, but it’s still doesn’t seem to be an efficient way to navigate.

          Honestly it’s still battery life that’s the most frustrating for me. Usually I game in the evening and my phone’s already in it’s lower 3rd. Then I usually put the screen to always on, to avoid it locking and the general lag when looking up my list or rules. Then my battery dies and I have to tether it to a wall, and then my opponent is walking around the table to come read something.

          I do hope they include a match-making system like War Room has though. At least then your opponent can pull up your list while playing. I like that. But then my phone dies and we’re both playing from his/her device, haha.

          I dunno, there’s gotta be a more elegant solution. I honestly really like the card approach. Maybe laminated sheets?

          • Karru

            Possibly. I always write my lists down on paper. Many of my friends do the same or they have it on a laptop next to the gaming table.

          • ZeeLobby

            I mean I usually print from battlescribe or army builder, but then I usually still don’t have all the special rules, or more the weird interactions which we usually have to look up (usually to find that the answer is not there or vague or spread over 3 pages). Lol. Maybe the new edition will remedy some of these things so we can use digital efficiently.

      • The Rout

        I prefer physical when reading a book (and would likely still buy physical to read lore) but the AoS app makes list building really easy.

        The format of all rules for a unit being on one data sheet means my army is literally just the units i will be using so scrolling is cut down.

        If this had a points calculator list building would be a breeze rather than the chore it is now.

        Battery life is an issue though unfortunately.

        And you’re not old Zee, you’re just experienced :p

        • ZeeLobby

          Haha. Thank you!

          Yeah. I definitely see bonuses to single sheet rules for a unit. Im really hoping they keep USRs and then simply define them on the sheets as well. Im not a huge fan of every unit having it’s two unique special rules that are like other special rules but named completely different. Having single rules like tank Hunter makes it easy to immediately know an enemy unit’s capabilities.

          But yeah. A points calculator and a way to digitally share lists would be awesome. Sadly battery life may just never be fixed until new battery technology is finally used. Sadly I got rid of my iPad which had great battery life and now both my Android and iOS phone barely cut it. It’s crazy how many people in our group walk around with battery packs. Lol.

          • The Rout

            I hope a few USRs remain as well for the exact same reason.

            And i have a few battery packs from when i was obsessed with pokemon go. Threw a lot of money at that game… glad i grew out of that habit :p

        • Xodis

          Hopefully a nice balance is brought in. Buy the app, build your army, then print it through the app so you can have the sheets during the game if you dont want to play with your phone plugged in all day lol.

      • Desmond Burke

        The AoS app is pretty good. You can pick and choose the Warscrolls you are using, and put them into a Battle. This is a 1 button click that gives you a list of all the units/formations you are using, and you can click on each one to bring up it’s rules. It scrolls too so you aren’t clicking around like a lunatic. It works really nicely, and REALLY speeds up the game.

        You can also build your army list right in the app now with points, and add that to your Battle for quick reference.

        • ZeeLobby

          Definite improvements over the old system. It sounds like all their missing is a battle shared reference so I can easily bring up my opponents stuff, and it’d be perfect.

          • Desmond Burke

            That’s not a bad idea. I usually will add my opponents stuff to my army, in particular if it’s a teaching game.

          • ZeeLobby

            It’s really helpful in Warmachine/Hordes. Basically the game is hosted on both devices, and then it’s updated with changes. It lets you track wounds on one of your own models, and then your opponent can see how wounded your models are as well, and can make decisions on his turn. It doesn’t need all of that, but it’d be cool if a share function was at least implemented.

          • amaximus167

            Oh wow! That seems like it really helps against cheaters!

          • ZeeLobby

            It is pretty tight. It’s definitely the best wargame-supplement app I’ve ever used. Like I said above, it just kills your battery though :/…

    • Walter Vining

      You don’t have to have DfTS. If you got the curse of the wulfen digital edition that cuts out two books. so I see 3 references. That and you aren’t required to use CoF, so then its back down to 2.

      • ZeeLobby

        LOL. Buy a 4th book to save your spine! Those combo books were just downright silly. So glad I didn’t buy the same rules twice, especially now that we’re throwing them out.

      • The Rout

        I didn’t get the digital edition unfortunately and I need champions for the council of the great wolf, void claws and the deep strike formation (don’t recall the name). I also like the champions force org for the easy access to elites.

        And I need CotW for wulfen.

        Not sure if you were trying to be helpful or not but still stuck with 6 either way 🙁

  • Fixer40000

    Honestly looking towards this one.

    I’ve mostly sat out of 7th edition and been playing X-Wing because 40K has just become so laborious, complicated and frustrating to set up.

  • Heinz Fiction

    Well, it can’t get worse than 7th, can it?

    • Loki Nahat

      hahaha, you’ve obviously not seen AoS

      • karloss01

        Each to their own but while it did have a rocky start, Age of Sigmar is actually really good. I in fact stopped playing 40K to play AoS exclusively.

        • Loki Nahat

          I’m sure you did, but isn’t that a little regressing in terms of table top wargaming, you could have just gone the whole hog and played draughts

          • matty199

            Yeah basic equals crap lol
            Enjoy 7th on your own lol

          • Loki Nahat

            third mate. it’s the best

          • Munn

            A) AoS is as good as or better than 40k has ever been. They actually play out very similarly but certain changes within AoS make it a more interesting tactical game than 7th is atm. B) You prefer playing an older edition, that’s fine, to each there own, though the pride you feel in that fact comes off very hipster-y. You do have to deal with the problem of being completely and totally irrelevant in the scope of modern gaming but I think someone like you would probably see that as a good thing.(It’s not, it’s basically like hearing someone brag about how they only use landlines and fax machines.)

          • ZeeLobby

            Sadly the probable similarities between AoS and the new 40K probably means I’ll never play both, and end up just with 40K.

          • kloosterboer

            A valid concern.

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. I mean I wish it wasn’t. I used to enjoy playing both, alternating fantasy and 40K days, but I just don’t see any reason to as they get closer together. And honestly, although the new 40K fluff is pretty meh for me, it’s based on the old fluff, which imo is still lightyears ahead of AoS’s in terms of quality. It’s just going to be the choice in the end :/

          • wibbling

            Basic = ‘? Chess.
            Monopoly. Cluedo. Go. Stop whining about the lack of rules to intimidate your opponent. You’re going to have to think more.

          • ZeeLobby

            You heard the GWibbling! Think more dangit! Rules be damned! You don’t need rules, and you better not ask for “good” rules. Take what they give you and shut up!

          • ZeeLobby

            Yeah. Definitely regressing. Guess it’s easier for kids though. I had trouble grasping the rules of 3rd when I was a youngling. Personally I enjoyed 5th the most. Old enough to enjoy the complexity of the rules, but not the total cluster-f of 6th/7th.

          • karloss01

            It could also be a financial issue, for chaos I’ve spent £160 on six books alone for this edition, while in age of sigmar I’ve spent £55.00 on three (Generals Handbook, Grand Alliances Chaos and Disciples of Tzeentch) and I don’t even need those to play.

          • karloss01

            Not at all, if it’s the size of the rules, then you’ve got the 4 page rule booklet then 200+ rule sheets for every model, each having their own rules and weapon stats. Pretty sure that equates to just as much in the 40K rulebook if you compiled all the rules into a single document. More rules ≠ a better game, Shadow War (Necromunda) has a complex set of rules but it works on a small scale just like the 2nd edition rules did back in the day. Putting a multitude of rule books into a game which can have over a hundred pieces takes something that could be simple into a two-three hour slog that might not even end in a conclusive result.

        • Jabberwokk

          Didn’t it give you in game bonus’s for legit having a mustache?

          • ZeeLobby

            Well, the beginning of AoS was pretty bunk. Measure from anywhere, no points, goofy gimmicks, etc. Really AoS + Generals Handbook match play and you have a real game.

          • karloss01

            Not gonna defend it, it did. those rules were in the first set of free rule they distributed before their battletomes and Generals handbook and since then no such rules have popped up. They took the advice from the fans/players and didn’t add anymore.

      • Donald Lindsey

        And you’ve obviously not played AoS.

        • Loki Nahat

          I got bored after 1 turn, it’s no more complicated than Chequers

      • wibbling

        With such straightforward rules it’s surprising people are still struggling, but hey.

        Which parts of the 4 pages do you need help with?

        • ZeeLobby

          The one where I don’t know where to measure from?

  • foulestfeesh13 .

    They aren’t listening to all of the community. In fact they’re going as far as deleting comments and blocking people on Facebook that have said they don’t like the way things seem to be heading, and many of those comments aren’t offensive in any way.

    • Alexis Thouin Bourdeau

      Sure.

      • ZeeLobby

        Sure that’s what they’re doing? Or sure /s? Your comment needs more definition!

        • Tim Lester

          we must delete his comment!!

          • ZeeLobby

            Wait. We need to know what side he’s on first! Or maybe… Maybe we don’t!

          • Tim Lester

            EXTERMINATUS!

          • Tim Lester

            PURGE ALL COMMENTS! COMMENTING IS HERESY!!

        • PrimoFederalist

          I’m pretty *sure* he meant “sure, yeah right”.

          • ZeeLobby

            Got it!

    • David Leimbach

      Great. People who start criticizing a product before it’s released should get their comments deleted.

      I don’t mind reading a ‘what if they do X it would be bad’ stuff all over the net, but on a corporate website there’s no need for that to be some newbies first intro to the topic.

      • Karru

        Wait…

        You think it is great to see GW blocking and deleting people’s comments about genuine concerns they have for the coming game? Your preferred solution is to remove “negative” questions and make sure that other people aren’t aware of possible problems that there might be with the system? You know, instead of communicating with those people and telling them more about the edition so they could take in more feedback and hear what people have to say, like they said they’ve done with this edition?

        • ZeeLobby

          Lol. We must defend our great leaders!

        • Tim Lester

          PURGE THE HERETICS

          • Jabberwokk

            And Heresy is magic!

            wait….

            *BLAM*

        • JdM

          … there is concern for the game… and then there is whining… Went through this with AoS… it’s mostly going to be whining. It’s GW’s site, they can do what they want with the Game, the Comments, anything really. Much like AoS, try the new game, then whine. I think that’s what they prefer.

          • ZeeLobby

            Happens in other games too. I’m fine with deleting it as long as the baby isn’t thrown out with the bath water. There’s probably some valuable nuggets in there.

          • Karru

            There is a difference between whining and concern. GW has been known to delete both in the past. If they outright delete all comments that are negative “because whiners”, then they won’t be getting any good feedback.

            In order to have proper feedback, you need both, good and bad. This way you know if there is something wrong that needs fixing. If they don’t want to “fix” it they can try communicating it better. If someone is concerned what GW is going to do with the game, they should explain it. That way they can please the people that have genuine concern for the game.

    • Munn

      I straight up don’t believe you, I’ve seen some truly foul sh** on their facebook page be RESPONDED to. The amount of asinine whining about thing people don’t understand and kneejerk hate-mongering makes me thing I would be perfectly happy to see plenty of comments be deleted. I mean seriously, the post about the GHB t2o had at least 50-60 comments in it that were basically just ‘I don’t read rules but I still think it’s dumb that my army doesn’t get to do things it is totally allowed to do because I can’t be bothered to take 5 minutes out of my day and learn how it works.’

      • ZeeLobby

        Haha. All of this is probably true. I don’t frequent their sites much but I can only imagine.

    • PrimoFederalist

      I think you’re full of it. There are plenty of abrasive, petulant comments left on there, and often replied to, but yet you would have us believe they take the time to delete and block totally unoffensive constructive criticism and then block those who post them. OK, buddy.

    • I’ve yet to see a well thought out critique banned and blocked on their facebook.

      I have seen plenty of abrasive and angry comments deleted though.

  • I stopped playing about a year ago for the same reasons I stopped playing 5th edition. I’m not chasing the meta, I’m not buying a whole new army just so I can have games that aren’t blowouts, and I’m not interested in a game where the imbalance is as drastic as it was at the tail end of 5th or right now with 7th.

    Just not happening.

    The rules bloat etc is just another facet.

    The powergaming in 40k right now where I am is simply off the chain.

    • ZeeLobby

      Yeah, I really enjoyed 5th, but the tail end was horrible. Honestly the beginning of 6th might have been the worst, when Necron croissants of doom just popped up everywhere, ugh…

      The power gaming used to be strong here, but eventually people just stopped playing, and I live in one of the larger metropolitan areas in the US. I hope that the new edition simply brings people back. I loved playing PUGs at the local store, and doing the small events there. Now I have to do significant travel to go to events. It’s a real bummer.

    • captkaruthors

      Powergaming killed the entire community at the store I went to. I don’t even think they run 40k events anymore. It was that bad.

      • Jabberwokk

        Yep play X, Y, or Z or GTFO.

        The more imba a system is the greater amount of power gaming is available.

        • ZeeLobby

          Yeah, the imba was a real issue.

      • ZeeLobby

        Part of it was definitely the community, but part of it was also that GW did very little to promote narrative play outside of saying “hey, play narratively!”. Formations just made it easy to power game. “Here, take the best units in your codex and get a bonus for free”.

        • Jabberwokk

          But my Squadron of a Dozen Flyrants is fluffy!

          • ZeeLobby

            in 8th those are actually the new scale of gargoyles! Prepare to buy 55 more! Joking aside it was just a horrible dumb dumb decision on their part. Then they try to chase away the competitive power gaming community they spawned, lol.

          • Jabberwokk

            When the Harpy/Crone’s came out I calculated I would need to reinvest 700$ to make a competitive army. And even then I knew it would play nothing like how I wanted to play nids and it would still be a struggle to compete.

            And when I say compete I mean play against the tween with his grey knights he just bought.

    • Jabberwokk

      My Nid tactical assessment since 5th.
      http://jpjam.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/ackbar.gif

  • Jabberwokk

    The Faq actually looked like it was written by a human being that actually knew what was going on. I think this a ‘uge step forward.

    Also Xeno’s for life.

  • amaximus167

    ” Plus the idea that you can assault out of vehicles again could really refresh a lot of armies out there too.”

    This would excite me!

  • Matthew Hoag

    7th edition is not dead or dying. It will live on as the rules for Horus Heresy games.