40K Mystery: What ARE Guilliman’s Super Soldiers

We’ve seen the blurry minis and some fancy artwork, but what has the Imperium crafted for 8th Edition?

I think it’s obvious that the Astartes are going to get some reinforcements – BIG reinforcements.

For a while folks have been wondering if the Grimdark was going to get it’s own version of Stormcraft Eternals – big burly dudes to be the new standard-bearers of the game – and by total coincidence give everyone something new to buy…

Last week we saw the mystery image folks think may be the new boxed set for 8th edition:

People notes that those marines are pretty tall!

Rumors of new Astartes with “MK.X” Power Armor (what happened to Mk.IX?) are doing the rounds and everyone is getting that tingly feeling!

The weekend video from GW gives some away and continues the story from Rise of the Primarch.  We see Guilliman and Cawl talking about the 10,000 year project and the unleashing of the Imperium’s newest badasses. We see them being grown in glowing blue vats. they are described by the Primarch as:

“We have wrought new wonders with the clay of human flesh…Gene-forged beyond the capabilities of their brethren…the truest heirs of the Primarchs legacies.”

And that leads to the big question:

 WHAT THE HECK ARE ARE THESE DUDES?

Thoughts

If these super soldiers are even larger versions of the Astartes we have some clues from 40K history to fall back on:

Enhanced Astartes Gene-seed

A portion of all Chapter’s geneseed is tithed to Mars for inspection and study. The official reason for this is to test it’s genetic purity and to put stocks aside to allow new chapters to be created.  It’s quite possible Cawl has simply been working on refining the basic Astartes genome for 10,000 years. The original Astartes geneseed was a very watered down version of the Primarch program, so there would be plenty of room for improvement – just work towards improving towards the good primarchs, not the bad ones…

Mechanicus – Astartes

A second option is the Mechanicus taking the already formidable Astartes and augmenting them with various Mechanicus upgrades and enhancements.  It wouldn’t be pretty, but it’s probably doable. Who doesn’t like marines with titanium skeletons and laser eyes?

Custodes – Astartes

Another option is to create some type of hybrid between the emperor’s early projects – the mighty and utterly loyal Adeptus Custodes genome and the Adeptus Astartes. It’s unknown exactly how this would work, but hey apparently Centurion Armor has been around for Millenia, so they can retcon anything…

Thunder Warriors

My favorite option and hope.  If you are looking for brutish killers that put fear into even Astartes and don’t give a crap about the temptations of Chaos – look no further than the Thunder Warrior genome.  After a couple centuries they all burn out and you can just move onto bigger and better programs – or perhaps Cawl could try to extend their lifespans. If Babu Dhakal could figure it out in only a few centuries, I’m sure the Arch-magos could do it in 10,000 years.

~What do you think they are?

  • Skeksis

    Sigmarines..

    • Maitre Lord Ironfist

      you men Wardmarinz?

    • Muninwing

      i think this proves that the term “sigmarines” is in fact incorrect.

      GW was never trying to bring Space Marines into AoS; someone instead had an idea for a completely different game with a completely different background, and got hired by GW… an dis now in creative control.

      i’m betting that they had some epiphany in their teens about an awesome group of warrior-angel soldiers, and wrote a ton of bad personal fiction about them.

      the problem is, the idea is so derivative. it’s unoriginal. it’s what people loved about space marines only turned up to 11. it’s putting something in the game that already exists, then having to tell everyone who will listen how awesome it is until they believe.

      i look at Stormcast as the biggest disappointment (save the actual undefined setting) of AoS. so much room to work with, such little creativity or imagination gone into actually creating a thorough background.

      Now we will get the same, only in SM form. what’s their story? “they’re AWESOME!” why? “because we said they’re AWESOME!” — with no real depth involved.

      • euansmith

        I still like the Rogue Trader era Space Marines, before they got turned in to Space Knights of Space Camelot. Just bit, beefy, gene-enhanced goons, juiced up on combat drugs.

        • ZeeLobby

          Those we’re pretty awesome

          • euansmith

            My “Space Marines” for 8th are going to be The Heart Breakers. They operate in a cut off part of the Imperium without access to Gene-seed, but with a functional STC Capable of manufacturing obsolete Mk4 armour (Betrayal @ Calth).

            The local authorities recruit from execution yards across the sub-sector; taking only the most hardened, disciplined blue-collar criminals.

            Subjects are given extensive bio-chemical enhancement and a fitted with the eponymous Heartbreaker; a micro-munition time-bomb implanted in the chest cavity. This device is used to ensure the juiced up criminals remain compliant and on mission.

            Each bomb constantly counts down towards zero and they can only be reset by an encrypted signal from a Warden (Officers who are always separated from the troops by at least a layer of bullet-proof Glassteel). If the counter ever reaches zero, the micro-bomb explodes with sufficient force to shred the subject’s heart.

            The Heartbreakers “run hot”; the drugs pumping through their systems eventually causing organ failure and death. The only escape is to complete a tour of duty and earn an honourable discharge and a detox, before returning to civilian life.

            I’m going for a Suicide Squad/Escape From New York/Bad Company 2,000ad-style vibe, in keeping with the spirit of the old Rogue Trader background.

          • ZeeLobby

            That… Sounds amazing! Can we just replace their horrible fluff with our own community driven fluff. Bring back some of the grim-dark.

          • Damistar

            You have always had the option of creating your own fluff, the galaxy is a big place after all. Euansmith’s idea would work just fine in the grimdark imho.

          • ZeeLobby

            My point was we’re no longer in the grimdark. His stuff would fit perfectly in the grimdark. Currently we’re in the hero comic-book TV hour. It’s good vs evil. Heroes vs Villains. Complete with the plot holes and muahahaHaHaHAHA.

          • NikosanPrime

            That’s awesome! I am impressed.

            Mine are a science driven (science of war in all aspects) chapter that has sent out squads and exploration teams throughout the Galaxy loaning out squads but also doing recruitment runs looking for children that are the smartest of the local gangs or poorer quarters so have an edge to them. Then they are put in a stasis field and stored until the squad can get back to the Chapter Training Barge/Moon. They also are using the expedition forces to acquire Lost Technology in an attempt to rebuild the Imperium.

            This will all fit in well with Guilliman’s new Imperium.

          • euansmith

            That’s neat. Like a shadier version of the Mentor Legion?

            I miss the rules in 4th Edition (I think it was) where you were encouraged to create your own Chapter by assigning Chapter Tactics to your force.

            In 5th Edition, my Marines were Ion Pyrites; a Successor Chapter, of sorts, to the Iron Warriors.

            They were off pacifying the lawless Antilles Reach when the Heresy kicked off, and completely missed the entire show.

            They survive as a privateer force of questionable loyalty, collecting tithe from fringe systems, and raiding the vessels and colonies of the Imperium’s foes.

          • NikosanPrime

            Nice background, like the spin off of the Iron Warriors.

            My Mentor Legion are just a little more pragmatic than the rest of the Chapters. Or at least that is how I am seeing them. Bit of a passion for me.

            I also see them as the ones that have been releasing new tech onto the scene: like the recently resurfaced STC templates for the various Forge World 30k stuff that all of the sudden is becoming available.

          • euansmith

            I do wish that GW would make more of a thing about Archaeotechnologist uncovering long lost STCs to explain new kits.

          • polyquaternium7

            Then you are going to love this little retro gem Cybercity Oedo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwBXPsetOHM

          • euansmith

            Are they locked up for crimes against hair dressing?

        • Muninwing

          sadly, that could still be a thing… if GW wasn’t surprisingly prissy.

          the chapters that have fallen to chaos have their own deals, but those who have merely become rebels? totally could be beefy goons on combat drugs that worked with RTs and others on the fringes of the Imperium. it easily fits the setting.

          • ZeeLobby

            Now they just like to over-emphasize good vs bad, with little care for the grey inbetween. HH still does a great job of capturing that though, especially the 30K FW fluff.

          • euansmith

            Indeed, it is a big ol’ Galaxy out there. 😉

          • Muninwing

            yeah.

            even if only a tenth of the stars out there have planets, and only a hundredth of the planets were usable or habitable even with futuristic terraforming… and half of those were outside the Imperium…

            there’d still be tens to hundreds of millions of inhabited planets in the Imperium alone.

            it’s funny, but the first time i read a 40k novel and saw the downtime for a warp jump was in the months for an inter-sector jump (one to the next) i was weirdly pleased. you can get anywhere in the Star Wars galaxy within a couple hours, so it was refreshing to see that there was a sense of scale at work in at least some of GW’s stuff.

        • NikosanPrime

          agreed. Still have a ton of the minis and pretty much all of the books from RT.

          And still play Mentor Legion as Mentor Legion, not “The Mentors”

          • euansmith

            I wonder what the Mentor Legion will make of the new Super Marines. Will they just say, “Our work here is done” and retire to a pleasant Agri-world?

          • palaeomerus

            They will go on a crusade to find the exiled Rainbow Warrior legion and their disgraced Primarch D’oug Hen Ninnng

          • euansmith

            The Rainbow Warriors are locked in endless combat with Gork Wan, the Kommando Master who teaches his boyz, “Ow to foit gud nekked.” 😉

  • Farseerer

    Whatever they are, I really hope they have a downside. Super Space Marines that feel fear because their training has been short would be an interesting twist.

    It looks like morale will matter this edition so it would be a great way to highlight exactly how.

    • generalchaos34

      I like the idea that they will be clashing constantly with the chapters they get assigned to because those guys thought there were the biggest baddest things on the block and now they are obsolete.

    • David Leimbach

      Imperial Guard: we’re the common man fighting overwhelming odds against terrifying foes.
      Regular Space Marines: we were the best super soldiers, but now we’re a bit outdated. We’re fearless, but we’re not quite the best afterall.
      Super Marines: We give regular marines a pat on the head and laugh before going to battle. “Out of my way ‘tiny’, Ha Ha Ha!”

      • Muninwing

        yeah. couldn’t be shoehorned in harder…

        • DJ860

          Feels a little shoehorned in so that they can keep the existing model line-up and start to bring in marines whose scale is more appropriate.

          • Muninwing

            yeah… still lame.

            up the stats. make new models. people who care will buy the new ones.

            exactly what they did transitioning from the metal Terminators to the plastic ones. no ruckus.

      • Crevab

        Don’t forget Grey Knights and Custodes in there too :/

    • Justin Dicken

      Good idea but marines tend to not have any weaknesses. They save that for the chaos versions.

      • Marco Marantz

        but cult marines are the best

  • biome3

    Thunder worriors 2.0

    • euansmith

      “You are sure that these aren’t just Thunder Warriors, Archmagos?”

      “No, Primarch, these are the new Goo-eely-man Pattern Enhanced Marines you ordered.”

      “You are certain you haven’t just spent 10,000 years pottering around your lab and then just ran the old Thunder Warriors Programme on the STC?”

      “Definitely, Lord Goo-eely-man. I find you lack of faith in me disturbing.”

      “Okay, you, Marine, what is your name!”

      THUNDER WARRIOR MURDERMAIM-BOB, AT YOUR SERVICE, SAH!!!

      CAWL!!!

      • biome3

        Someone’s been swimming in the sea to long.

      • MechBattler

        Murdermaim-bob? Tell me the truth Euan. You’ve had this one in mind for a while and were just waiting for a good chance to use it, right?

      • Chuck

        “My lord, I have improved upon the Astartes, as you commanded.”

        “Excellent. With 10,000 years of work, I expect these new warriors are greatly enhanced. Tell me, are they stronger?”

        “Mmmm, not exactly. Statistically, I would rate their strength a 4 on a scale of 1 to… well, on a scale of 1 to a number no longer limited to 10…”

        “Are they tougher?”

        “No… no… I’d rate them about a 4, again. The same as the current Astartes.”

        “So… how are they improved?”

        “Well… they’re… y’know… slightly taller. They feel more… Space Marine-y when you look at them next to Imperial Guardsman. They’re far more impressive on the battlefield.”

        “Wait… seriously?”

        • Naaa, they will be upgraded in some way for sure. 2 wounds sounds most plausible as there ain’t much other things you can alter in 8th.

          • Chuck

            I don’t know, my friend. If the models in the pictures of the new starter set and that photo of them being painted are these “new” marines (and they do look different, and perhaps slightly bigger), then I think we’re just looking at fluff to justify some bigger Space Marine models. (I am fine with this, personally.)

            It would be horribly confusing if these new marines look 99% the same as existing marines, but have 2 Wounds or something. It’s not unheard of, but it would seem a weird choice to me.

            But it’s possible these “leaked” photos aren’t the same marines that the new video is talking about, so I could absolutely be wrong.

          • EvilCheesypoof

            If that were the case I would at least paint mine differently to make things easier.

          • Maybe they have *three* hearts?

          • Shawn

            And each one of them as cold as stone to rain destruction upon the Enemies of Mankind!

        • euansmith

          Tip top 😀

        • palaeomerus

          “They can shoot beyond the range of a musket and can use cover and actual infantry tactics rather than advance in lines and they know better than to just run around with a big hammer while artillery and snipers are on the field.”

          “That’s crazy talk. You’re crazy. Those words don’t even mean anything. You might as well be barking like a dog for all the sense you made. I’m leaving. I don’t have time to waste on crazy. You have yourself a crazy day, Crazy!”

  • vyrago

    Age of Guilliman.

  • OldHat

    My guess is that Girlyman and Cawl did what the Emperor did and used the geneseed to make super-soldiers, but dialed up the watered-down Astartes to 11, meaning they will likely be a notch below Custodians, but a notch or two above normal Marines.

    • Shawn

      That makes a lot of sense. They certainly don’t want to invalidate the Custodes, who have only just now joined the war to save the Imperium.

  • Adrien Fowl
    • BaronSnakPak

      Use two thin coats of gene seed for a nice, even coverage.

      • NovaeVox

        Don’t worry about any mistakes. We can fix those in the next step.

    • Grasshopper

      GW should listen to the fans. We want Chapter Rhodes!

    • Shawn

      Someone needs to send this to GW, pronto!

  • ZeeLobby

    Guilliman and Cawl got together and decided they wanted to corner the Lords of Terra military budget for the year. But they already had space marines! And the second hand marine market was already overflowing with cheap marines. But does the Imperium have the new super duper marines which look like regular marines, but are slightly larger, have better rules, will be supported going forward and will make us loads of Imperial Credits!? We’ll make assault marine versions and Terminator versions! They’ll buy them because they’re cooler!

    • memitchell

      And, they shall be named, “Super-better Bestest Marines!”

  • Chris Hateley

    Ffs… What do you do when you’ve maxed one faction so much that there just isn’t any room to add more to it? You create a new sub-faction for that faction.

    “It’s a space marine space marine.”

    • Myu

      That’s basically Greky Knights and Custodes though. Already been done 😛

      • ZeeLobby

        You’re right, it’s a third layer. Wait til the 4th though, when they redo Grey Knights and Custodes in the larger format :D.

        • euansmith

          Coffee-table Grey Knights?

          • Nightwalker

            Was thinking more Earl Grey Knights

          • euansmith

            😀 😀 😀 Spiffing jape, what?

          • Shawn

            ^This I love. Absolutely hilarious

  • Myu

    The way they pronounce his name is weird but cool video otherwise though

  • Jabberwokk

    Wardites have arrived.

  • Nathaniel Wright

    Cursed Founding 2: Curse Harder

    • petrow84

      The Cursed and the Furious?

    • NikosanPrime

      This was something that I was wondering about. Gives them an interesting plot twist option.

  • Louie’sUglyRanglehorns

    Can anyone tell me the fluff justification or source that describes TWs as “brutish killers that put fear into even Astartes and don’t give a crap about the temptations of Chaos?” I know they’re supposed to have been more powerful than your regular astartes but that sounds pretty hardcore.

    • ZeeLobby

      One of the HH books. The one about psykers on tera i think.

      • Agent of Change

        The Outcast Dead.

        A thunder warrior mops the floor with some heresy era Astartes.

        • ZeeLobby

          Awesome, thanks! Yeah. That was a pretty interesting one. Probably the biggest font of knowledge we have on thunder warriors thus far.

          • Agent of Change

            And one of my favorite books in the whole series. It really digs into the nature of loyalty and betrayal for individuals like Astartes and Thunder Warriors in more crunchy dirty ways.

          • I really hope they return to Babu Dhakal. He’s got to have a part to play in all of this as the Heresy reaches Terra.

            The strange thing is I think he doesn’t hate the Emperor for his betrayal. He accepts what his master plan was – but just wants to live.

            Heck, he could in theory still be alive in 40K…

          • Agent of Change

            It’s totally possible and while very very unlikely he may have somethign to do with Cawl’s research… who knows.

            Even more interesting along that line of thinking is that the implication has been that the Astartes of the 41st millenia are actually even further degraded from the “power and strength” of their Crusade Era brethren due to gene seed decay, warp influence, loss of science and technology, etc…

            What would a full strength Thunder Warrior or analog look like compared to ‘modern’ Astartes. I mean looking at it like that one could see the appeal of it from a commander perspective.

            My biggest issue with Papa SMurf following teh super-duper marine route is it seems in direct contradiction of his own seminal teachings. It’ strikes me as if he is casting aside his own wisdom (as well as the Emperors) and building a singular power under his own control of the sort he broke up the legions over concern about.

          • KarnageKing

            From his narration in the teaser I got the impression that he was greatly disappointed with the current state of the Imperium and that would include Space Marines. He says he will reinforce and give rebirth to the Space Marines chapters so I think he would spread them around.

          • ZeeLobby

            And this is where you lost me. Lol. Please leave 30K in 30k. Why does everything have to be coming back. It’s like they saw how good 30K fluff was and decided just to copy and paste it into 40K, but did a lazy job.

    • The Horus Heresy hardcovers also speak of an uprising of a band of rebel Thunder Warriors on the moon that was put down by the early War Hounds (later World Eaters). They took the lunar station, but it was utter carnage and the rebel TWs took down many times their numbers of marines.

  • Inco Gnito

    Make way for the Ultra Ultramarines. They are so incredible ultra that they ultra the s*§# out of the Ultramarines.
    I am very skeptical of this tbh, eventhough I’ll stay open minded.
    It feels more like a cheap money grab than an actual advance of the story.
    It just doesn’t feel… grim… nor dark…
    I am not a fan of the “silly” grim and dark, I have to admit. I prefered the grounded version of the Abnett years (eventhough I love me some Blanche). However this seems to chase the whole “Warcraft” audience which I have never been a fan of.
    The reason I like Warhammer was it’s fair share of consistency, not perfect, but still rather much well thought out. There was an explanation for most things and all the more unusual stuff was grounded in history. Sure it didn’t always pan out and sure there were things that made you roll your eyes… but since Gathering Storms this seems to be turning more from a single rolling stone into a fully fledged avalanche.
    It is just not for me: Rules YAY, Fluff NAY.
    But, I still can see the light, if GW is tackling this well enough.
    I pray that these Ultra Ultramarines are not just simply the “knights in shining armour” as there is no shining armour in 40k, just races doing anything to survive. The Space Marines came with their own set of flaws and can be argued were the real reason the Imperium of Man failed.
    So something similiar has to be set up for these new Ultra Ultramarines: Why would they exist? What is the reason for Big G to create these Ultra Ultramarines? Who will get harmed by this? Would other Space Marine legions accept the arrival of superior Astartes, who would replace them, or would they fight against them? And what about the Imperial senate, who would have to pass back their power to Big G and his new Ultra Ultramarines? There are just so many questions that will not be answered.
    It seems to boil down to the rather silly: But they will look super cool problem!
    Sure, Warhammer is not high literacy, but it always had something profoundly emersive and thought provoking for me… I just pray that GW doesn’t ditch that in a lazy attempt to boost sales.

    PS: When I read GS III and they said:”Guilliman was the greatest son of the Emperor…” and later “… no other brother cared as much about the people of the Imperium as Guilliman did.” was I the only one who smelled some Ward in the air?

    • Sonic tooth

      i have often wondered if the ultramarines are actually as popular as gw/ward think they are. they are obvious gws favorite chapter but are they realy everyone elses? nothing ive read in the HH books (so far!) has pointed to gulliman being “the best” primarch? certainly vulkan, sanguinius and corax seem to care more about the average human then he appears to?

      • Inco Gnito

        Well the interesting thing is that Guilliman was actually successfull with his Ultramarines during the Great Crusade when it came to conquering worlds.
        He was always at a rivalry with Horus because they both wanted to be the once who have conquered most planets.
        A stark contrast to Guilliman was the Aurelian (Lorgar), who saw himself more as a diplomat/clergyman then a warlord. So it took him a long time to conquer planets, as he rather converted than conquered. When the Emperor punished Aurelian for his beliefs and slow progress, he sent Guilliman to show Lorgar how he should proceed.
        What happened at the planet “Khur” and the “Perfect City”, foundet by the Word Bearers, shows how little Guilliman cared about human lifes. He butchered large parts of the planets inhabitants and razed the city Monarchia (Perfect City) without wasting a thought to its populous. And just because his father had ordered him to.
        Yeah, I would say when it comes to compassion, Sanguinius and Vulkan are right up there. Eventhough I think the Salamanders rank higher than the Blood Angels when it comes to compassion. What happened on Signus Prime shows that the BA are willing to sacrifice human lives in order to safe their chapter.
        I know that Lion El’Johnson was also one of the prefered sons of the Emperor and Guilliman was sort of jealous of him and that he thought the Dark Angels were the height of Astartes discipline. Yet Lion was too secretive which cost him much favour.
        Rogal Dorn and his Imperial Fists got loads of attention and actually were given the grand task of turning Terra into a fortress and rebuilding the imperial palace, not Guilliman.
        One could argue that the whole business of the Ultramarines started AFTER the HH because by then they held numerical superiority in the Imperium and could basically force themselves into power. Mind you, Guilliman became one of the highest powers within the Imperium after the HH eventhough that was not what his father had invisioned for the Imperium.
        And now he is running around creating new Astartes, forming new alliances and calling out a new crusade… one has to ponder if all this is serving the Imperium or if this is another power ploy by Guilliman to see himself to a bigger slice of the cake. Last time it worked out just fine for him: First the Imperium Secundus and after the HH the 500 World Empire… doing quite well.
        Maybe GW is just actually really good at painting believable propaganda… and we are all buying it.

        Geez… sorry for the essay =/

        • Sonic tooth

          i didnt know the lion was favored by the emp. what is their relationship? i always liked the lion, he seems dodgy in the books iv read so far but theres something in him that i like for some reason. i dont believe he was a traitor despite the supposed evidence

          • Inco Gnito

            Don’t know if I would go so far as to say that the emperor favoured Johnson, I might have put that wrong, but amongst his brother’s they saw him as a tactical genius. He even surpassed Guilliman in that respect. I just believed that due to his capabilities, that he would be given preference over other Primarchs.
            Really his biggest problem was how exclusive he was, his secretive behaviour, particularely towards his brothers.
            The whole traitor/loyalist issue is rather messy to be honest… I think the way it was written is a bit… messy…
            Sometimes it seems like he was a traitor (particularely the fluff around the fallen in 40K) and other times it seems like he was never disloyal (mainly the HH stuff).
            Then again, Magnus treachery was never seen as treachery until it was too late…
            maybe Lion betrayed the Emperor without knowing it. Maybe he thought he was loyal but Luther saw the malignient powers at work and tried to stop them. After all Luther is sort of a hin at Martin Luther who reformed the church (in some simply put way). I agree though, I don’t think that the Lion would knowlingy betray the Emperor

      • Shawn

        Well, I know of three UM players, two of which live in my area, but I can count two or three DA, BA, and IH players in my area too. Successor chapters, not so much. Although, I do have a small force of Iron Snakes. However, I run them using Red Scorpion Chapter Tactics simply because it reflects “Brothers of the Snake” much better instead of a UM successor.

  • StinkHorse

    “Tall”, I do remember making a guess about true-scale marines…

    • ZeeLobby

      I still think they’re a little short. But it gives GW room for 9th edition if they want to resell marines again.

      • StinkHorse

        And in what universe would they not?

        • ZeeLobby

          I guess the one where releasing true scale marines to the joy of the customers was considered higher value than money. So probably very few of the parallel universes.

    • euansmith

      “Aren’t you a little small for a Space Marine?”

      • StinkHorse

        Zing!

  • mgdavey

    “Yo Dawg, we heard you like UltraMarines….”

  • Matt Halkos

    I wonder, if 10000 years of cryostasis, would lead some of these to be corrupted. The could release astarates and corrupted rules in 1 book. This would allow GW to basically forge a 2nd heresy lore wise. Then the corrupted would be separate from chaos as well since they aren’t followers of chaos but just tainted creations. Boom 2 factions, good and evil, 1 book.

    Edit: Actually typing this, makes it sound like something GW wouldnt do.

  • NovaeVox

    Bigger, angrier, more dakka: Nob Marinez

  • Guillaume Bran

    Guilliman has broken down the legions into chapters so they would be easier to control. Now that he wants an army of conquest to wage a new crusade, what if he’s cancelling that order ? Even with 10 thousand years to do research, it must be tough to rival with the original designs of a being like the Emperor.
    Maybe Cawl used those gene seed banks to create more space marines and bolster the numbers of the loyalist chapters instead of working on bigger, better “sigmarines”. What good if they are taller and stronger ? In a galaxy divided by a giant warp storm, they need the numbers to bring war everywhere they want. We already have tons of small elite marine-like forces with the Deathwatch, Grey Knights and even the Custodes, and, besides, why kill the bread and butter of GW, the space marine, for a bigger version ? Just reform the legions, one way or another, open the hidden armories of Mars and give them tons of new toys to play with. Et voilà, you can sell new kits to all the marine players out there.

    • David Leimbach

      Yes. The galaxy needs MSU. You’re never going to win putting all your points in a few guys in an objectives match!

    • euansmith

      The Nazi put an awful lot of effort in to producing “war winning weapons” rather than mass producing cheap, but effective units (they spent all of their Vespene Gas on Research instead of the Production Queue); now, I’m nat saying that Guilliman is no better than Hitler, but…

  • David Leimbach

    They’re special rule will be “Puts Fear Into They Who Shall Know No Fear”
    PFITWSKNF

  • Raven Jax

    I hope they officially name them Space Marines of the Stormcast Chapter.

    Some men just want to watch the world burn.

    • Lion El’ Jonson

      Stormcast Chapter actually has a really good ring to it.

      …I might steal it.

      • euansmith

        “Tempestas Fingitur” in High Gothic 😉

        • palaeomerus

          Behold! The Novastartes Departmento Tempestian. Their fortress world shall be that part of Terra not covered by the Imperial Palace and also Cruithne. Each of these Novastartes Marines shall carry a bandolier of six dormant Eversors to be thrown as grenades and who themselves shall carry vortex grenades and boots with sharp power-nard-kickers upon their toes, or chain-kickers where it shall be deemed more hardcore, gritty, and ridiculous. In addition Novastartes Marines with have gatling volkite assault cannons on each wrist and rocket packs and shall mount up on the shoulders of terminators in tactical dreadnought armor as their chicken-fight steeds.

      • Raven Jax

        Anarchist. 😉

  • Jim Morr

    Fabius Bile gave them friendly hand in that project it seems…
    Those SMs are cloned and we know who the clonemaster is.

  • Arthfael

    It is feasible within the frame of the current fluff. However, depending on how they justify it this may be heretical. Corax did play at enhancing his marines, and that did not work out too well for his Legion.

  • Justin Dicken

    Is that David Wenham’s (AKA Faramir) voice?

  • mgdavey

    They shall be called the “Galaxycast Eternal Marines”

    • euansmith

      Stormcast Perpetuals 😉

  • trygon

    The picture (even if small and quite pixelated) that shows the presumed 8th Ed Box content have marines in basic size. The ones a bit taller got jump packs and there are some terminators as well.

    Most likely, it is just a Space Marine revamp. Loyalty preprogramed while vat growing them. I think of it as a “marine-in-a-jar” concept, that probably will give SM a bit better stat-line. To be super soldiers, their fl
    uff say 1 marine makes for a lot more than the current in-game equivalence of 1 Marine = 3 Imperial Guardsmen.

    Consider that SWA have Marines at M5. Back in 2nd Ed, they had M4. What if we see a BS5 and WS5… or S5, T5… or giving them W2? Just to differentiate between super soldier and ordinary human grunts? Smaller Marine armies would be an instant nerf… and SM players would go out and buy a new army feeling they already have a super army…

    Basically, the Space Marine is the GW-franchise STRONGEST trade mark and I think they are just trying to strengthen it even further.

    • EvilCheesypoof

      We already know the Basic Space Marine stat line has not changed much. Still T4 and BS 3+ (BS 4 equivalent), 1 Wound and a 3+ save.

      Rumor has it that these are just a new unit that can be added to a Space Marine army, and will have better stats. GW already said Space Marines aren’t getting replaced.

  • Carey_Mahoney

    Wasn’t there something written in one publication about some legendary beast sleeping deep within planet Mars that may be about to awake? So, now it turns out that this legendary creature is, in fact, New Coke. That’s so lame!

  • Kolobius

    I have it on a very good authority, somebody that may or may not have been playtesting this new edition if you know what I mean, that this is merely going to be a new unit that you can take in your space marines army. Just like when they added the Centurions. He didn’t know any of the lore just that they were like Custodes in stats

    • ikari_kun2002

      Here’s hoping that your contact was told the truth. I’d be…not exactly happy with that, but at least okay. Much happier than with a general rescaling.
      Of course, I’d prefer:
      – New basic Chaos Marines.
      – Robust plastic for Eldar.
      – Robust plastic for Orks.
      – Upgrade sprues for all remaining first founding chapters, and some iconic chapters from subsequent foundings.
      – Plastic Servitors.
      – Plastic Techmarine.
      – Plastic Inquisitors (in boxes with options.)
      – Plastic Inquisitors (in clampacks, capable of sharing options with the boxed ones.)
      – Plastic Ministorum personnel.
      – Rough Riders that look like they might belong to the Imperial Guard…

  • OptimusDerf

    I’m wondering which one of his brothers is going to come back (or wake up) and not agree with the idea of improving Dad’s work…

  • Dave Satterthwaite

    The best thing would be if they had Ogryn genes. Moar powerful than normal marines but unable to affix their purity seals without help. Stupidity tests each turn. Would be glorious.

  • Steve L Duelist

    I am thinking they are a kind to the Corax Super Marines from 30k. Make sense for Corax to yell his brother about the super mairne force he made and their issues, which Guillian had Crawl recreate and prefect the process over 10,000 years.

    That or clones of Caato Sicarius

    • Aside from it being Corax’s greatest shame, which drove him to the point of self-loathing and seeing himself and his brothers as tainted by default and something that shouldn’t exist.

      • Steve L Duelist

        thought the shame was due to the shortcuts he had to take in order to get the numbers out fast and start the process as quickly as possible. And Crawl’s second task was to improve the process, having 10,000 years to fix the bugs.

        • euansmith

          Space Marines 2.0, Service Pack 3.

        • Nope, as is covered in Corax. He realizes that the Primarchs are inherently warp-tainted and believes using the Primarch gene-material caused the mutations

  • karloss01

    Well we know what the models look like because they’ve been floating around the internet for a week or so.
    http://i.imgur.com/ADJNA7n.jpg

    • TenDM

      I don’t get it. They look like normal Marines with different weapons.

      • palaeomerus

        New armor sort of.

  • Marco Marantz

    i really, *really* dislike this super marine idea….just when i thought they couldnt get more space mariney than a space marine inside a space marine with Centurions, they literally need something bigger and better…..cant wait for half of the super marines to turn traitor and we can have ourselves the horus heresy 2.0

  • Frey Jepson

    Great! The super-duper soldiers are on their way. The space marines really needed something new after all. All the players at my club play marines. It makes for a very dull experience, considering how expansive the warhammer universe is.