40K: Narrative Impact

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Now that the Imperium has gone Dark, what else can happen? Let’s find out.

In the latest edition, the stage has been set for a ton of interesting conflicts. The entire Imperium has been cut in half by the Cicatrix Maledictum. Guilliman and Cawl have baked up a new batch of Marines and Primaris to drive a wedge through the Chaos. Chaos, in turn, is partying on now that there’s a giant tear in the sky across the galaxy. Daemons and Traitor Legions are pouring out all over the place.

Meanwhile Necrons are reawakening and setting out on their own expeditions. The Tau have resumed their expansion now that their sector of the galaxy is no longer literally on fire. The Aeiouldari are being smug space elves and contending with the fact that there’s a whole faction of them who are dedicated to bringing back their god of death–and defeating Slaanesh. The Orks…well…they’re always spoilin’ for a good dust-up, and this is the ideal situation for them.

And with all these pieces in play, it’s anyone’s guess as to how it’ll turn out in the end–there have been a few clues here and there. We know that this summer will see a massive campaign to decide the Fate of Konor, which is kind of exciting as it will determine the fate of Guilliman and his forces, as well as shape the galaxy for events to come. I don’t know how much of an impact fans will be able to have–but, since we’re talking about the future of “the narrative” what else would you want to see?

I know I personally would want to see a narrative campaign that centers around some of the worlds in the Dark Imperium. There’s a lot you can do there–the whole thing has a wild west frontier kind of vibe. Only instead of waiting for the Cavalry to come riding over a hill, it’s waiting for the Indomitus Crusade. But I think it’d be interesting to see what happens when they can’t make it to a stranded world.

We know that the Imperium vs. Chaos is going to be the central conflict of the new edition–but this is a chance to see that conflict in a new light. What does the Imperium look like without all the structure behind it. I’d love to see a world (or system of worlds) that’s been cut off and see a campaign that’s basically their struggle for independence. You could have them try and fight off Xenos and Chaos threats, and depending on how the games go, they might have to compromise more and more of their ideals to hold on to their worlds. And what would that little slice of the Imperium look like when the Indomitus Crusade finally did roll up?

Like this, pretty much.

Granted, these are all stories that have happened before–we know that there were plenty of worlds that got cut off way back during the Emperor’s Crusades–but I think getting to play that out over a big campaign would be interesting.

That’s just one idea–right now the possibilities seem limitless.

So let me pose the question to you–what narrative would you carve out of the stuff of Eighth Edition?

  • georgelabour

    Worlds will burn.

    Stuff will exploderate.

    Orks will WAAAGH!

    MR. TORQUE WILL APPROVE EXCITEDLY!!!!

    Oh, and whiny edgelords will whine.

    FOLLOWED BY MORE EXPLODERATING FUN APPROVED BY MR.TORQUE!!!!

    • meat meat

      you mean Mr Torgue High-Five Flexington? or Torquemada from nemesis the warlock?

      • georgelabour

        YES!?!

  • Fergie0044

    I want to see a fully fleshed out story line where the Imperium FAILS. We keep being told of marine chapters being destroyed, chaos and xeons running wild over human worlds, but all this means nothing to me when its just crammed into the opening paragraph of the latest ‘ultra smurf saves everyone’ story.
    SHOW us the Imperium falling apart. SHOW us the credible threats that G-man must overcome, rather than just telling us about them.

    • ZeeLobby

      “Chaos won a bunch of stuff, now let me tell you about this detailed story where at the end you’ll wonder how Chaos wins anything.”

    • Drpx

      Horus Heresy is one big failure story. For both sides.

    • georgelabour

      The entire gathering Storm was about Chaos scoring win after win until everything is teetering on the brink, and ‘victory’ for the imperium means they’re not all dead yet.

      That’s three books which are going to lead into even more novels about how utterly smurfed everything has become. And considering the galaxy was already pretty smurfy before that….

      You’ve already got what you’re asking for.

      • Fergie0044

        I’ve only read the third gathering storm book. Sure G-man and co are on the run the entire book, but any battle covered in detail is them being quite successful! Again we’re told the fleet is ravaged by chaos forces at various times, but we only get detail when our heroes are directly involved, in which case they always kick a$$ and take names. I think that one Black Templar died, but that’s it. And of course Magnus gets his head kicked in.

        • georgelabour

          Uhmmm he lost several fleets, the Ultramarines heresy era flaship to the red corsairs. He was even taken prisoner.

          Not sure if losing your 10,000 year old command ship to a pack of pirates, and getting your entire army incarcerated counts as a success.

          He then only gets out of that because Cypher and some Harlequins want to use him to get closer to The Emperor.

          Rise of the Primarch 64-67 just in case you needed to check that.

          There’s also snippets scattered in the sidebars where major problems facing other planets are given in short hand. Including sentient warp storms chasing down fleets of ships…

          Sentient warp storms…chasing fleets…

          Not something you’d expect to run into when things are going well for the good guys.

          • Fergie0044

            Yea yea, I mentioned the fleet being ravaged. But look again, how much space is dedicated to this? Do we get any narrative sections detailing it or maybe a captains perspective as his ship is overrun? No, it’s just dryly stated that ships are lost and men are dead.
            The snippets are nice, but I’ll need more time to pass to see if they are teases for whats coming are just flavour text that won’t amount to anything. Maybe it’s how the writers spitball new ideas?
            Oh yes, he’s locked up for what an hour? Two? Over the grand scheme of the book its a speedbump and little else.
            A good example of a setback is Fulgrim’s ‘attack’ on G-man. Nicely ties in with the doubts he’s already having and paves the way for him to have some sort of weird PTSD/paranoia over being successful. More of that please.
            My complain here is the same as my OP, I want to GW to SHOW us the imperium losing, rather than just be told it happened in passing.

          • georgelabour

            A lack of intense detail doesn’t really change the fact that it was a terrible defeat for the Imperium.

            Even real world historical accounts often omit major details when covering a wider subject. Those details are then left to others to cover in more focused works.

            It also certainly doesn’t fit into the ‘LOL gullymanz is saving the days’ schlock being peddled by the folks I’ve been responding to.

            A stance that I have yet to see given even one page reference for despite numerous requests.

          • Fergie0044

            But your missing my point. I don’t care how many nameless, faceless unimportant guys/ships/planets die to chaos. If it all happens ‘off screen’ its all for naught. I want a story where the FOCUS is on an imperium defeat. Give me a full 40 page narrative of failure, pain and death, then I’ll believe the stakes have been raised.

            Eg: If a story begins with a whole sector being sucked into the warp in the opening paragraph and then the rest of the narrative is on a small group of SM chasing, fighting and defeating the chaos warlord responsible I’d call that a imperium victory story. Sure, the scale of the imperium loss is greater, but the narrative focus is on the imperium beating chaos. again.

          • georgelabour

            So you want more stories like Storm of Iron, and or Fall of Cadia correct?

          • Fergie0044

            I’m not familiar with storm of iron.

            Fall of cadia – no. Now I only skimmed another person’s copy so i could be wrong, but I remember there being something along the lines of ‘Abaddon had taken cadia but not broken the spirit of the imperials’ or some such. The whole thing seemed to me like a pyrrhic victory for chaos. Which is completely fine if that’s the story they wanted to tell, but as the starting point for a supposed new reign of terror by chaos it didn’t seem like a resounding victory.

            Now a good example is the first in the Word Bearer series by A. Reynolds. Big chaos army comes and takes out some no name PDF force. But throughout the rest of the story we keep checking in with a PDF vet that has now been enslaved to help build some big old chaos monument. We get to follow along in detail as he gradually goes mad and turns into a spawn thing at the end. Not hugely relevant to the overall story but gives a nice detail for the soul crushing horror that the chaos forces inflicted on the world. Kinda makes them seem like a threat, you know?

          • georgelabour

            You’ve missed out by skipping storm of iron.

            Not only is it an example of the few good books Black Library put out during its early days it also spun off plot threads, and characters still being used GW to this day. Not to mention luring a bunch of folks into the Iron Warriors fanboy cult.

            I’d also reccomend doing more than skimming fall of Cadia. While obviously it’s not as in depth as a full length novel or even stuff like the Vraks trilogy it’s still very much a story of how Chaos wins, and a victory for the imperials is really just a handful of people escaping with their lives.

            Really the only victory they pulled off was keeping Guilliman’s new pants safe. Which kind of pales in comparison to losing a few companies of astartes, fleets, tens of billions of people, and the system that was keeping the eye of terror from ripping the galaxy in twain.

            Sure Abaddon loses a lot of folks but he was more concerned with finding out what was in Cawl’s box (the aforementioned pants) than in counting casualties. And at the end of it all he did get what he wanted.

          • Fergie0044

            Ok, I’ll check it out. The iron warriors were well done in the HH novels I’ve read. I’d also ear marked the night lords trilogy as my next 40k novel as I heard lots of good things about it.

          • georgelabour

            Those 3 night lord novels are also excellent.

            One minute you’re rooting for these guys like they’re the home team. The next they’re skinning children in order to annoy their captive. All while bickering and seemingly about to murder each other over the slightest thing.

            I suppose blood gorgons might also be worth a read. It’s actually Chaos astartes Vs Chaos astartes with some dark eldar thrown in for kicks. No Imperials whatsoever.

    • kingcobra668

      How (would you do it)?

      • Karru

        Super easy answer.

        Here’s one way that it can be done, using the current lore.

        Mortarion wins at Ultramar. Ultramar mostly lost, including Macragge, but few pockets of resistance still remain. Guilliman and his Guilmarines get bloodied and suffer their first major defeat against the forces of Chaos, showing that even Guilliman and his Guilmarines can actually lose. This is also the first time Ultramarines lose in a massive way.

        Guilliman retreats back to Terra with what remains of the defenders of Ultramar. Guilliman now spends a long time gathering his forces and trying desperately to organise the defence of the Imperium. Meanwhile, things go south in the Dark Imperium side of the galaxy as Necrons get riled up and messages can’t get through. Only after Necrons have managed to carve a good foothold for themselves, Eldar start to notice they need the help of Guilliman to once again battle the ancient enemy. Eldar make contact with the Primarch and now Guilliman has another setback to bear. His Indominus Crusade wasn’t as big of a success he originally thought. Dark Imperium is once again in trouble, but this time he doesn’t have the resources to spare.

        This alone would make the world much more interesting. It would indicate that Guilliman and his Guilmarines can in fact be defeated and that they aren’t this infinite army that can appear out of nowhere at the last minute each and every time. Also, it makes it so that Imperium isn’t getting completely and utterly pummelled. With Ultramar and the defenders of the Eastern Fringe gone, Tau can start their own expansions “unmolested” until they run into the forces of Chaos.

        • Ronin

          I rather they nuke Terra than Ultramar. It’s the seat of everything wrong with the Imperium and offers a much more bleak story considering the astronomicon would be shut down with the death of the Emperor.

          • Karru

            There is a good reason why Ultramar should be the one to be destroyed.

            As I pointed out, Tau would be able to expand a lot easier with Ultramarines gone. There is also the little factoid that Terra is located more or less in the heart of the Imperium, while Ultramar is located in the “edges”. With Ultramar gone, one of the “greatest heroes” of the Imperium will be severely weakened. Besides, there are quite a few players that would enjoy seeing Ultramarines finally suffer a major loss.

          • Ronin

            Well as an Ultramarines player I’m rather biased on the opinion, but we’ll see how it plays out. Hopefully there’s a campaign in the future that actually does matter so I can fight tooth and nail against your forces wanting to ransack it. 😉 They really should turn 40k into a big mmo.

          • Me

            “They really should turn 40k into a big mmo.”

            I have been wanting this for sooooo long. WAR (Warhammer Age of Reckoning) was one of my favorites. I had to stop playing for a while because life happens, and I don’t know what came of it, but it was awesome while I was playing. They (IMHO) had the absolute best PVP and way of dealing with power gankers (literally turned them into chickens).

          • Ronin

            There was promise that they were going to make Eternal Crusade like that, but that kind of fell through.

            Although, I mean I wish they made the tabletop 40k into an MMO with these community campaigns every season and it’d be great if they introduced rules for some sort of progression system.

          • Me

            Yeah, I bought EC based on the promise that it was going to be similar to PlanetSide 2, but 40k style. The decision to make it more like Counter Strike left a bitter taste in my mouth.

            Your idea would be awesome. I just wish someone with some real financial backing that really cares about both 40K and online gaming would take it up.

      • Fergie0044

        In brief:
        Short term – what Karru said
        Long term – bring back the lion or russ and have a splintered imperium with a different primarch at the helm of each.
        Longer term – Ab tries to take terra but fails, however the defenders are badly mauled. Sick of him messing stuff up the gods send none other than Lorgar the high priest of chaos to be the new warmaster. Lorgar easily kills Ab and lauches a second attack on Terra. In realspace time this new attack comes only days after the first one so the chaos forces easily make landings on Terra and begin to assault the throne room. Book ends on the cliff hanger of Lorgar breaking down the doors and strolling up to big E’s chair….

        (yes I do love Lorgar – easily the best written primarch in the HH series)

        • __

          Yeah it seems a bit weird that Mortarion is the primarch pitted against Guilliman, rather than Lorgar who actually has a reason to hate him.

          • Brian Griffith

            And before that, Guilliman had a duel with Magnus.

            It’s whoever’s got a fresh model. While I can hope for a Daemon Lorgar eventually, I won’t hold my breath.

      • Spacefrisian

        Replace everything with a Gloryhammer song.

    • Heinz Fiction

      Yeah, the Imperium never fails. As we all know, the Damocles Crusade was a tie 😉

    • Dave Satterthwaite

      Here’s the problem I keep seeing many times over and over.

      It’s like a lot of people just gloss over ‘AND THEN AN ENTIRE PLANET WAS OVERRUN BY CHAOS’ and focus on whether Arch Taint Tickler Felchicus Goreflaps could REALLY have been beaten by Brother Captain In Vino Veritas III in the fight.

      Guys, AN ENTIRE PLANET IS NOT A SMALL THING. And Chaos has overtaken thousands, if not millions of them.

      I agree it would be nice to see some actual content at a ground level about this – and it does exist, see Dan Abnett for more information – but you really don’t want to just see apocalypse porn for its own sake.

      • Fergie0044

        In the 40k universe who is more important; Marneus Calgar or 100 random planets whose names I will now make up on the spot?

        In real life human terms its the planets but for the actual narrative of the game its Calgar. People know and care who he his. GW can tells us that Thallax IV just got swallowed into the warp but who cares? Gibill Thorp X just got over run by nids, Killamax and its 12 golden moons may have been destroyed by Felchius Goreflaps in the space of 2 paragraphs, but when the Captain whatshisname shows up to fight him you better believe it will be a couple of pages worth of glorious combat before chaos is beaten.

        Its what I’ve been trying to say elsewhere, it’s not the scale of the chaos victory vs the scale of the imperium victory but rather where the stories FOCUS is. We get the chaos victory in the opening paragraph of the story and then the rest is all about the imperium scrapping together a victory.

  • Karru

    Honestly, I would burn Ultramar. In a good narrative, Mortarion would win at Ultramar and defeat Guilliman and his Guilmarines as well as the Ultramarines. Guilliman’s win streak has to stop in order to make the narrative much more interesting. Feel free to prove me wrong by giving me a quote from the current lore which has Guilliman AND his Guilmarines suffer a major defeat that has major impact on his fighting capabilities.

    After that, I would start doing some Dark Imperium campaign narratives while at the same time doing some Imperium stuff. Maybe something involving Necrons on a massive scale on the dark side while Ghaz starts his new WAAAAGH!

    That would allow for two things. First of all, Xenos will get much needed love, as Necrons, Tyranids and Orks will be part of it, remember that Ghaz is currently fighting against Leviathan. It also opens up some interesting narrative in terms of how to slow down and/or damage the Chaos forces who have now beaten back Guilliman and his Guilmarines. Orks could easily come to blows with a major Chaos force as they get riled up by Ghaz, while Tyranids continue their own little rampage. Meanwhile, on the other side, Necrons are starting their own campaign to reclaim their old kingdom. With much of the Guilliman’s Crusade Fleet destroyed thanks to the defeat in Ultramar, Dark Imperium has to rely on their own defences. This is where Eldar can pop in to the narrative, as they aren’t exactly the best pals with the Necrons and with the light of the Astronomican having problems piercing the warp rift, Eldar can move about more freely to harass Necron forces.

    • Christie Bryden

      thousand sons vs Tau would be interesting.

      • Graham Bartram

        Last time I played my Tau against the Thousand Sons I quite literally hosed them off the table along with their Nurgle filth buddies whose toughness I mocked. I then Started building an Ad-Mech army because I was finding Tau a bit too easy and that’s really quite boring to play on either side.

        • ZeeLobby

          Have you tried Tau in 8th? I was thinking of dusting mine off. I only played them vs some armies, as they really felt overly advantaged in 7th.

          • Graham Bartram

            Not yet, but I dare say I’ll try them out again. And yes, in my last battle I had an awful lot of shots at BS5. I felt almost guilty…almost. XD

        • Christie Bryden

          I mean more in narrative way, plus that was probably not 8th, not even sure it was after wrath of magnus.

          think a army who heavy use psychers vs the army with no presence in the warp.

          • Brian Griffith

            I don’t think Tau are entirely warp-negative. Or at the least, they’re not Pariahs.

          • Spacefrisian

            You are correct they barely register in the warp so psychic Tau can happen if they are given the time, if Ethereals haven’t been fooling us all this time already .

          • Graham Bartram

            I know, but I couldn’t resist. And it was 7th, pre-Magnus.
            But seriously, fluff wise I could see this working so I’ll go along with you for now… ..but one mention of “chaos tau” and I’m leaving the building.

        • Spacefrisian

          Its a 1000 sons thing, i hosed them of the table with my Slaanesh warband as well.

      • ZeeLobby

        Anything to flesh out the universe as not just Space Marines vs X.

        • Me

          And if it has to be EoM vs X, how about the Imperials being the ones doing the invading. Every board I see is covered with Gothic ruins. So the Imperials never invade planets that belong to other races? For that matter, are the Xenos only fighting over Imperial leftovers?

      • Drpx

        “Shas ‘o! We captured one of the enemy, but when opened the suit it was just full of dirt.”

    • georgelabour

      Guilliman’s win streak got ended twice in Rise of the Primarchs.

      Unless you count losing a 10,000 year old relic vessel, several fleets, and having to be rescued by his own enemies a win….

      Then his win streak only ended once.

      • Karru

        So your argument is that since Guilliman “lost” right after he was awakened, confused by everything around him while getting absolutely swarmed by everything Chaos pretty much had, after which he still pulls off a victory and survives, somehow it makes everything “okay” for the current tripe to exist?

        The current lore we are getting clearly states two things, Guilliman and Guilmarines are the greatest saviours of the galaxy and the Imperium has absolutely nothing to fear. The “Dark Imperium” doesn’t seem to be in that bad of a shape after all if the Indominus Crusade has come to an end and Guilliman has already returned to Ultramar to beat back Mortarion.

        I’d still like to see the official source that points out that Guilliman AND Guilmarines have suffered a major defeat against someone. Thus far, that hasn’t happened, even after Mortarion himself appeared and assaulted Ultramar while Guilliman was away. Still Guilliman manages to reach Ultramar in time to beat Mortarion. There is literally no grim dark about the 40k lore any more. If there is ever a situation where things might look even slightly bad for the Imperium, you can safely assume that Guilliman and Guilmarines appear out of nowhere like Randy Orton with his RKO. After Guilliman launched his crusade and the armies of Guilmarines, they haven’t suffered any major losses, instead they went to the “Dark Imperium” which was stated to be in a massive state of chaos and anarchy thanks to the lack of Astronomican and the presence of the warprift, finished there and are now coming back like it was nothing.

        • georgelabour

          I’m afraid your personal fanfiction does not over ride the actual material being produced by GW.

          So, surviving another day is not ‘winning all the things’.

          No where is it said that a thing called a guillimarine is the greatest saviours and that no one need fear anything. I’ve certainly yet to get a page referenced proving it anyways.

          Nor is there anything saying the imperium is somehow less opressive, less xenophobic, less stagnatn, and less at threat. Again not one thing written by those who produce canon material has said this.

          I also don’t understand why you think a ‘win’ for chaos only counts if the entire universe goes the way of Warhammer Fantasy’s Old World. Since the standards you’re laying out here would require something on that scale to satisfy the fancanon you’ve written in your head.

          • Karru

            Good god, you really are a troll. Either that or you actually have your own fanfiction going on.

            “Nor is there anything saying the imperium is somehow less opressive, less xenophobic, less stagnatn, and less at threat. Again not one thing written by those who produce canon material has said this.”

            Except, you know, when Archmagos Deus Ex Machina, an Inquisitor and a Grey Knight Grand Master got super friendly with the Ynnari to resurrect Guilliman.

            Or when they started to produce Guilmarines, basically committing arch-heresy as it really isn’t exactly the most accepted thing in the Imperium to play around with the Emperor’s Grand Design.

            Or when they are putting out new technology, again something that is considered heresy.

            It looks like you haven’t read the lore at all, at least not the past lore. Would you care to point out where I said that the only way Chaos would “win” is when they absolutely destroy the entire world, or in this case, the galaxy?

            With the destruction of Cadia and the expansion of the Eye of Terror, one could have said that Chaos “won” something, right? Wrong. I mean, yeah, sure, Chaos managed to destroy Cadia and do some minor damage to the Imperium, who then gained a Primarch and an army of super warriors that can be produced more efficiently than Space Marines and a massive technological boost with new tech getting pumped out for said super warriors.

            So Baal is getting pummelled by Leviathan? Okay, finally Imperium will suffer some massive damage and actually cripple one of the founding Legions. Wrong. Guilliman appears out of nowhere at the last minute and saves the day.

            It is like a bad record repeating. After anything “bad” Imperium suffers, they somehow pull off a victory or gain something incredible from it in return.

            Even now, the Fate of Konor campaign is basically pointless. Even if Chaos wins it by a landslide, Guilliman still beats Mortarion and Guilliman just goes and reclaims Konor, just like that. After that, he can just gather up more Guilmarines and go after the next threat.

          • georgelabour

            Still waiting for page references to canon material…

            You know the thing that’d easily prove all these claims of the galaxy suddenly being a happier brighter place where the good guys truly are winning.

            Also Guilliman is not a blood thirster. So he didn’t save Baal. Since even the internet rumor posts most of the edgelords get their ‘information’ from have had that on it’d be nice of you to stop omitting content inconvenient to your bias.

            Or you know, provide the proper responses that show you’re actually informed about the things you’re talking about. With page numbers.

          • Karru

            There is no point in posting anything to you, I have already provided you with OFFICIAL source material, with links, to prove my claims, while you have given nothing back, while you are still claiming I haven’t “given anything” to you.

            But thanks for confirming that you are, in fact, just another troll.

          • georgelabour

            So you can’t provide any facts to back up your statements…

            Not even one page number from one canon source…

            Despite claiming better knowledge of the matters under discussion…

            And no, you haven’t provide anything official. Otherwise this wouldn’t be the third time I’ve requested some kind of page reference.

          • Karru

            Yeah sure. You keep telling yourself that.

          • georgelabour

            Fourth time. Just needing a reelvant page number here…

          • Karru

            There is just no desperation in 40k right now for the Imperium. Any defeat is quickly recovered from.

            Cadia gets destroyed? Guilmarines, Guilliman and new technology kicks in.

            Dark Imperium is born and Baal is about to be devoured. Guilliman begins his Crusade and saves the day. Blood Angels quickly recover thanks to getting their own Guilmarines.

            Ultramar is invaded by Mortarion, things start to look grim. Oh, never mind, Guilliman already finished his Crusade and came back in a nick of time to beat back Death Guard.

            Where is the desperation? The damage? Nowhere and that’s the problem. Anything that happens to the Imperium is quickly fixed by something. Mostly Guilmarines and Guilliman. There is literally nothing going on that is interesting, which is why I have abandoned the new lore completely. You know the outcome of every major battle or invasion already if Imperium is involved.

          • georgelabour

            There’s been one novel written after the events of Rise of the primarch..and it’s not even released yet.

            Heck the new rule book for the new edition which contains a great deal of canon material isn’t even generally available.

            So I’m not sure where you’re getting all this ‘nothing bad has happened and all is well’ stuff from

            Certainly not the leaks we’ve been drip fed for a while now. As those paint a pretty grim picture for everyone who likes the big E.

            Unless you count being saved (from utter doom) by a bloodthirster who wants to eat the souls of everyone related to your spiritual liege a happy moment…

            I sure as heck don’t.

            Pretty sure having half an empire cut off from the other half has never really been a moment of celebration either. The Romans certainly weren’t hugely ecstatic when those things happened.

            But if you’re some kind of mascohist who lives to be miserable I suppose then you could see how those are in fact great and glorious things that mark a better tomorrow.

          • threeorangewhips
          • georgelabour

            Yes I suppose I could start calling some of these people that. It’s an apt enough term for those who are ‘hip to the groovy’ or whatever would be said by those who decided to associate a sea lion with willfull ignorance.

            Especially when their response to a request for a page reference can be summed up as ‘lols ur dumb, and I don’t need to answer’.

            However they do seem a bit dense and likely wouldn’t understand the reference.

            Oh and…

            Yes I know. I just found the above reply to be far more amusing.

    • vlad78

      You’re forgetting something. The way the story is told in the novel ‘dark imperium’ means despite all the victories won by Guillman through the indomitus crusade, the Imperium is still near total collapse.

      I like how they started the story with the battle of Thessala when Fulgrim literally owned Guilliman, lured him into a trap and almost killed him, forcing the ultramarines survivors to put him into stasis for 10000 years in the faint hope of saving him. This beginning was clearly intended to show how each traitor primarch can potentially best him, plus six (maybe 7) of his traitorous brothers are still around, dedicated to defeat him.

      Making Mortarion defeat Guilliman is just too straighforward unless it is the result of a summer campaign.

      First, I’d have Guilliman betrayed by one of his … loyal … brother. Namely the Lion. I’d have them unfold the dark angel story line, make this betrayal descent the Imperium into even more turmoil with Johnson once he is in power trying to save what’s left of humanity and failing. I’d would have them make Guilliman MIA at the really moment he might have score a really big victory.

      40k needs no clearcut stories, it needs shades of grey.

      Then you can put all your stories with the xenos being stars of the show.

      I want them to make summer campaign count and prepare for all alternatives. (in order to always have a good story line to tell us)

      And I want them to advance to the possible death and reincarnation (or elevation) or just demise of the Emperor with style.

      • Karru

        Fate of Konor has no effect on the result for the Battle of Ultramar. Mortarion is defeated, the BL book has already “spoiled” that part. The Fate of Konor is literally just a “footnote” on the grand scheme of things. It will most likely end up being one paragraph, maybe two in some Codex in the future.

        As for the Mortarion defeating Guilliman part being “too straightforward”, personally I see it as a necessity. Thus far Guilliman seems to just win every fight he gets into with his Guilmarines. The loss of Ultramar would be huge and not something Imperium can recover from easily. It can also easily be made into a campaign later on, where Guilliman leads another crusade to claim back his homeworld.

        I would personally prefer if they didn’t go with the “obvious” route either when it comes to the betrayal you are proposing. The problem is that everyone is basically expecting it at this point. There has been so much shady business going on with Dark Angels recently and the amount of Fallen “confessions” regarding the events on Caliban.

        I would prefer if they went with a “redemption” story, where Lion returns to make up for his failures from the past. Having yet another Chaos Primarch would be rather annoying, considering that the remaining Primarchs that can potentially return are very low already. With Magnus and Mortarion, Chaos already has more Primarchs with them. With Angron and Fulgrim coming in next, if Lion is added to that side as well, the story starts to get more and more tipped towards Chaos and that doesn’t make up for a good story either in my opinion.

        A perfect “balance” has to be achieved. A stalemate, where all factions have equal opportunities to move around and invade each other. This would allow the setting to be way more flexible for narrative players while still keeping things interesting.

        • vlad78

          You look more for a surprise than a good story imho. You’ve been made desperate by the stagnant lore. We’ve been waiting for a resolution of the Dark Angel plot for 20 years. Of course many people expect to learn the Lion wasn’t so loyal and had a secret agenda and redemption isn’t to be put out of the story at some point. Such things happening would still be shocking even if we’ve been expecting them for decades.

          As I said Guilliman has 6 /7 brothers loose, all of them deamon princes. If he doesn”t lose against Mortarion, he can lose against any of them. But losing isn’t that important, it is his fate which is important given that he’s the acting Emperor and the only thing keeping the Imperium alive after 10000 years of decadence.

          You want the story to become more dramatic, remove Guilliman just before he manages success. Reverse the standard imperial Deus ex machina. Make him MIA again. Put all mankind hopes on the shoulders of a traitor. That would be perhaps a nice way to introduce credible divisions within the imperium at its darkest hour.

          BTW I know fate of Konor is probably meaningless, but that precisely my point, i would have liked GW to make every campaign meaningful even if that forces them to scratch their heads to make a good story out of it. They have the money to hire good writers and if they don’t want players to spoil the setting, they just would have to be careful and to prepare all the possible outcomes thoroughly.

  • Ultra Magnus

    I would like to have seen a more politically fractured Imperium and not one simply physically divided by the deus-ex-warp scar.

    Guilliman’s attempts to rebuild a rational progressive Great Crusade style Imperium centered around his base in Ultramar.

    The Eclessiarchy refuse to hear “you are doing it wrong” from Guilliman and splinter off into a theocratic led traditional 40K Imperium based upon Terra and Emperor worship.

    Other parts of the Imperium break off and fragment into different independent states, some with (or lead by) their own renegade Astartes Chapers (Primarchs?), others completely fallen to Chaos.

    In this way you have a setting that actually explains the impact of Guillman’s return and disappointment in how things have changed in 10K years as well as provides a justification for why 80% of all actual table top battles are imperium vs. imperium anyway.

    • Karru

      I was kinda hoping for something like this as well. Guilliman returns and attempts bring the Imperium back on the route to the image Emperor had in mind in the first place. Ecclesiarchy doesn’t like this and, at first at least, attempts to “negotiate” with Guilliman to dial down on the things he is doing. Guilliman, disgusted by what Imperium has become, starts a reform of sorts. Things go relatively nicely at first, but then Ecclesiarchy goes on a warpath. Feeling their power and the “Imperial Truth” threatened, they declare Guilliman and those who follow him traitors and heretics. Instead of the “split” with a literal barrier, Imperium is divided into two factions. The New and the Old Imperium.

      The New Imperium is the one we are currently getting, with their ways of constructing new technology and modifying the Emperor’s Grand Design, while the Old Imperium is led by the Ecclesiarchy, who rely on their fanatical followers and the way old lore pictured Imperium. Civil War ignites and worlds go into open rebellion. Now, Imperium isn’t as powerful as before, but still “realistically” capable of defending its own planets.

      • Grasshopper

        You are reading my mind!

    • ZeeLobby

      It would have required some real writers, but it would have been awesome!

    • Drpx

      I imagine the Dark Imperium was created so we could have the classic setting intermixed with GW’s effort to modernize their game without ticking off the old fans. Think Eastern and Western Roman Empires. One stayed largely intact and became Constantinople, the other was a barbarian-infested hell that gave us medieval Europe.

      • Karru

        Personally, I see the Dark Imperium as a pathetic attempt to create “despair” in 40k, but they immediately made it not that bad once they showed that travelling between the two places isn’t exactly that hard, considering that th Indominus Crusade is already over and Guilliman is already coming back to Ultramar.

        • Maitre Lord Ironfist

          Big huge Crusade travelling the Stars – Yeah i can dig that.

          Anything else and even small trading vessels. Nope, they are dead. By Pirates, Raiders, Chaosdudes, Tentacles or something with all of these.

      • WhenDidVicesBecomeVirtues

        That barbarian infested hell that gave us medieval Europe eventually gave us the modern western world 😛

        • Drpx

          “We got better.”

    • Arianod

      Let’s hope someone over at GW is reading this and taking good note.

  • SilentPony

    Well if my reading of the actual stories is anything to go by, everything turns out fine. The Crusade is a roaring success, all chapters are reinforced, Baal is saved and the Blood angels get a full compliment of the primary marines, Guilliman beats Rick and Morty at Konor, then returns to Terra to lead the Imperium after re-lighting the Astronomicon and casting out the darkness.

    Oh, also Spoilers in case you haven’t read any of the new canon.

    • Graham Bartram

      Bit late with the spoiler warning but yeah, that’s it in a nutshell. XD

    • Aura1

      The announcement of the Konor campaign even says it takes place *after* the Indomitus Crusade. So, I don’t expect anything from it other than express Primaris delivery plots

      • ZeeLobby

        “hmm. A shipment from row, rowboot, rowboot girlyman… I don’t know sire. But the label says space marines with a NEW stamped on it.”

        • Aura1

          ‘says FRAGILE: PLOT FRAGMENTS IF DROPPED. We best pop on the rose-tinted magnoculors again in case it’s all gone Matt Ward…’

  • Matthew Hoag

    Apparently GW’s current plan is to run yearly campaigns, but alternate settings. We had AoS last year, 40k this year, and AoS next year. So enjoy this campaign while it lasts. We most likely will not see another one for 40k until 2019.

    • WhenDidVicesBecomeVirtues

      My understanding is AoS is still underselling. 40k is still their more popular IP.

      • Matthew Pomeroy

        pretty much 40k is their cash cow. has been for a long while and likely will be for the foreseable future.

      • Matthew Hoag

        Just because is does not sell as much as 40k does not mean it is underselling. 40k is the best selling miniatures game in the world. Xwing is second, and AoS is third. Not bad considering that WFB had fallen so low by its last year that it wasn’t even on the list.

  • af

    The only narrative I want: I need someone with writing skills to continue the Diary of a Chaos Space Marine, possibly the best 40K fanfic ever (maybe even the best 40K fiction!).

    • Spacefrisian

      The best fiction is found in the songs of Gloryhammer, cant beat a Hollywood Hootsman thats a barbarian cyborg with a neutron star for a heart.

  • Brian Griffith

    The thing that weirds me out is that okay, they’re down to “only” 20,000 Primaris marines after the Indomitus Crusade ends.

    That’s… uh… that’s still 20 chapters’ worth. Or two legions’ worth. It usually only takes a company of bog standard marines to pacify a planetary uprising.

    • Matthew Hoag

      The smallest legion, Raven Guard, was 80,000 strong.

  • Drew_Da_Destroya

    So, that Ork picture made me remember Wazdakka Gutsmek, and his plan to create a highway from one end of the galaxy to the other, so he never has to get off his bike.

    And then I thought about how the Great Rift is basically stretching from one side of the galaxy to another… and I realized, it wasn’t Chaos, but Wazdakka!

    SPEED FREAKZ WAAAAAAAGH!