40K RUMORS: Chapter Approved 2017 Point Changes

There’s a new set of rumored point value changes for Chapter Approved 2017. Take a look at the fruits of the rumor-tree.

We know that Chapter Approved is coming this December and we have been hearing for months that it will contain the folloiwng, so no big surprise here:

  • New Rules for the three modes of play
  • Vehicle Construction Rules (basic ones)
  • Point Adjustments
  • Faction rules to help put armies still using the Index books on a more equal footing with the codex armies.

Today a set of purported point values for a handful of armies has been doing the rounds.  As with all rumors, take a look, but have a skeptical eye until we start getting in multiple reports from multiple sources.

via one of Gary’s birds 11-8-2017

Updated Point Values

Codex Space Marines

Points Per Model
Aggressor 21
Chaplain in Terminator Armour 100
Drop Pod 83
Inceptor 25
Intercessor 18
Librarian 88
Librarian in Terminator 120
Razorback 70
Stalker 75
Stormraven 192
Tartaros Terminator 26
Terminator Assault 26
Terminus Ultra 250
Vindicator 125
Whirlwind 70

Wargear
Assault Bolter 10
Assault Cannon 22
Assault Plasma Incinerator 17
Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets 12
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher 1
Boltstorm Gauntlet 22
Centurion Assault Launchers 3
Force Axe 10
Force Stave 8
Hurricane Bolter 10
Ironclad Assault Launchers 5
Plasma Exterminator 17
Predator Autocannon 40
Twin Assault Aannon 44

Characters

Roboute Guilliman 385
Sergeant Chronus 40

Codex Death Guard

Points per Model

Deathshroud Terminators 35
Defiler 140
Lord of Contagion 100
Noxious Blightbringer 58
Plague Marines 17
Plagueburst Crawler 100
Sorcerer Terminator 120
Tallyman 55

Wargear

Blight Launcher 10
Force Axe 10
Force Stave 8
Force Sword 8
Helbrute Fist single/pair 40/50
Predator Autocannon 40

~Have at it guys and gals!

  • Fergie0044

    I haven’t got my DG codex to hand – is this good news or bad news?

    • Massawyrm

      GREAT NEWS. Point drops across the board. It’s mostly shaves (except in the case of the Deathsroud, which it trims by 15 a model. It (if its true) lets us squeeze just a *little* more out of our points in, by way of two or three extra characters, or an extra unit of elites.

      • LankTank

        To be fair the Lord of Contagion definitely needed to be dropped a tonne of points as other than looking bad @ss there was no reason to have him at all. Not compared to 25pt increase to Typhus or a cheap Chaos Lord

  • Massawyrm

    Oddly enough, my biggest question is whether or not the Terminus Ultra is 250 all in (like the 400pts in the index) or if it’s 250 plus all of the lascannons (making it cost 450 total.)

    • AdeptusAstartes

      It would sit better with the other land raider chassis types at 250 base and then add your weapon points costs. Given how killy it is in 8th, an uplift to 450 would not be a surprise!

      • SacTownBrian

        Plus it was getting free pintle weapons. But… considering you have to buy three different tank kits to build one, why bother?

  • So wen Kroot codex rewrite?

  • DrLove42

    Guilliman only increases by 25 points? Thats still about 100 too cheap!

    • Inian

      At least it’s a step in the right direction.

      • Spacefrisian

        It does nothing, auras are the problem.

    • Xodis

      Well if a lot of other models get adjusted the correct way, it could be the perfect step, or at least closer than you think.

    • Matt Halkos

      You gotta think in terms of other games. They make minor patch updates that increase or decrease whatever until it reaches the desired balance. You can’t grossly over inflate him because then the next chapter approved will have to decrease the points cost because he shot too high.

      • Troy G

        You don’t want to go too hog wild, but a significant correction was needed, and we didn’t get it.

        • Randy Randalman

          Except for the fact that he isn’t winning any tournaments and top players have moved away from using him in Space Marines lists. Most Imperial Soup armies don’t even play him.

          • Calgar

            Yeah, I play ultramarines, but rarely field him because of the points investment. He is good, but I didn’t really like him at his old cost , at least not in a 2k game.

          • Ronin

            Same. I don’t field him as an Ultramarines player unless it’s for Apocalypse. My Captain Felix or Sicarius gets the job done with their lieutenants.

    • Mike Forrey

      Give him 10 hp’s and he’s balanced. Either that or limit him to much larger games where he should be instead of 1K pt games.

      • Ronin

        I play Ultramarines and I would slap someone if they used him in a 1k game.

      • YetAnotherFacelessMan

        I play against Ultramarines, and I did basically slap someone when they played him in a 1500pt game… in that I killed the entire rest of their army and then Guilliman walked around to the end of the game shooting 3 shots a turn like “quit running, you guys! I have to table you to win at this point!”

      • aargh00

        Seriously. He’s fifteen feet tall and waving a flaming sword… he shouldn’t be that hard to pick out of a crowd.

        • Weren’t Primarchs more like 8 feet?

          • GulMek

            Normal marines are closer to 8 ft than he is

    • SacTownBrian

      I’m sure I’m in the minority here… but really his abuse is in imperial soup. In a pure Ultramarine army the model count is now so low in 8th he’s a challenging fit even at 360. At least that’s how I feel in every game I play. I never felt model count was an issue for Astartes in 7th.

  • Nocturus

    I’m glad to see they are working on the existing codexes to keep them balanced, but I’m far more intrested to see what they do to help bring the index lists in line.

  • Inian

    Razorbacks do not need a points reduction, neither do most infantry units for the marines. Drop Pods, Vindicators, Whirlwinds and a few others could use a slight points reduction.

    DG could use a points drop across the board, except for characters and “zombies”.

    • MarcoT

      Intercessors and inceptors did need a drop imo. Thankfully they got one.

      • paxter

        Yea man intercessors and inceptors were over priced

        • SacTownBrian

          I agree on the inceptors. There isn’t enough wounds or toughness or armor at their current price.

      • Inian

        No one here has invested in Primaris marines yet so I have little experience to go on so I will believe you.

      • NagaBaboon

        No doubt that intercessors needed to drop to 18 pts, I’d agree that inceptors were over priced, especialy the plasma ones but I’m suprised how much they have come down by

        • MarcoT

          Wow didn’t even realize that drop. That’s amazing. Less than the current bolter variant? Not sure if I’m a fan, they’re already really easy-mode alpha strike, but at least had a hard time making their huge pointcost back. This makes it a lot (too much?) easier.

    • David

      Half the wining about conscripts was because all am infantry needed a point drop

      • Randy Randalman

        No it wasn’t. It was about 3 point guys in blobs of 30 being constantly fearless thanks to 30 point characters who could hide. No army in the game had an efficient way to trade for that, and it allowed AM to use the beat tanks and artillery in the game behind the endless blobs of fearless chaffe (who themselves had good output because of Orders on another cheap, easy to hide character).

        • David

          And yet sm infantry still can’t compete vs am infantry

    • John Traupman

      Razorbacks are 65pts in the codex and 70pts here. Twin Assault cannon is 35pts in codex and 44 here. that’s a 14 pt increase

      • Inian

        Arrgh! I keep forgetting that I have the points for weapons added already. You are correct, my bad. Also… yeay! Hopefully this results in less Ralazorspam!

      • Troy G

        That seems fairly reasonable to me. 14 Pts. It could have been 20 pts, and probably would have been fine too, but I’m glad to see they recognized a problem.

        • KombatWombat

          My only problem with part of the increase being in the tank and the rest in the weapon is that it jacks up the cost of the Land Raider Crusader and Redeemer, which really didn’t need it. Even worse when Hurricane Bolters jumped up as well to five times the cost of the Storm Bolter, when they are literally three Storm Bolters that can’t split fire! Unless they also bumped Storm Bolters to 4 points, but is two Bolters strapped together worth 4 points?

  • MarcoT

    Inceptors for 45 points? Yes please! Though almost always disappointing I kept bringing them anyway, but this makes it a lot easier to do so.

    • Ronin

      I’ve been having luck with my inceptors, but more because I do a big drop with a captain in jump pack and assault marines to screen in front of them. I’ve seen a competitive player do something gross with them which was give the captain “Storm of Fire” warlord trait so that the assault bolters become AP -2 on 6’s to wound with rerolls of to hit thanks to the chapter master upgrade.

  • Dave Weston

    Nothing for fortifications? Currently they suck, over costed and less effective. They need fixing, if for no other reason for GW to drive sales. Chapter Approved is the quickest opportunity but I doubted it. We’ll end up with all the Codexes released before they remember and probably bring out a Stronghold Assault equivalent book like last time, but that’ll be ages off I reckon.

    • I_am_Alpharius

      This is by no means the actual list or indeed the whole list. Every single units/models will be looked at.

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      Bastions are pretty good. I have used one to great success.

      • Dave Weston

        Their advantage is bringing LoS blocking terrain to the table. But they only auto fire on 5s now, no ability to allow your embarked unit to shoot the weaponry with their BS. The heavy bolsters are one thing but the Quad Gun is a joke, sure you get +1 to hit flyers but you still suffer the -1 to hit most of them so it’s still hitting them on 5s.

        Aegis seems like the best option. It’s the cheapest and can’t be destroyed. Whereas the Skyshield is now only 5+ invulnerable and has a profile which means it can be destroyed (which closes a loophole) but it’s gone up in price too so it’s just not worth it.

        • zeno666

          A bastion with 10 Dark Reapers in it is hilarious

    • Marco Marantz

      Agreed , especially when you pay full price for the weaponry on a bastion.

  • Drpx

    Chapter Approved, aka how to tell what is and isn’t selling…

    • OctopusVolcano

      Well sure. It’s a pretty big indication of how effective something is. Model is useful and appropriately pointed, people will buy and use it. Model is not being bought? probably over pointed or not useful enough.

      • zeno666

        Or a bad sculpt

    • zeno666

      Aka, expensive errata…

    • I_am_Alpharius

      What a load of tosh! Glad you could contribute…….

      • Drpx

        Have you gotten your #1 fan T-shirt yet?

    • Marcus Clark

      Yeah sure that must be it, make the more expensive models cost more points and decrease the less expensive less so they can make a profit. That’s some sound logic there chief, maybe GW is actually listening to feedback from the fans and adjusting rules, points so the game remains fun and competitive for every faction! like we always wanted them too.

  • ZeeLobby

    Good. GOOD. Will still take another year or two to get to a solid point, but they’re moving points values around which should only help. Would love to see changes throughout the year rather than once a year, but it’s still reasonable.

    • zeno666

      Twice should suffice.
      Also I feel bad for the poor suckers who bought their Codex to build their armies with…

      • Me

        I am pretty sure that they are still going to need them for the associated rules.

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        Why…? This book will only have a table with updated points costs. It will not have unit entries or rules or anything else a codex has.

        • Munn

          How big do you think he thinks the book is? Like 2k 3k pages?

        • zeno666

          Because they have to either use two books to build armies.
          Or take pen it down in their, not even 6 months old, book.
          And by the sound of things GW doesn’t update their eBooks either.

          • I_am_Alpharius

            eBooks are done. It just takes a long time to come through. Got to remember that team are working 6+ months ahead in terms of production. I’d imagine that the book design and e-pub team have a set weeks throughout the year when they go through publications and correct them; also don’t forget that any alterations need to translated into all the languages GW publish in and GW will want to provide all the language with updates at the same time. I would hazard the current pace Codex release is also hampering the available time to make edits.

            Of course none of this is ideal, and is understandably frustrating, but it is what it is.

          • Spade McTrowel

            Photocopy the updated page and slip it in the codex.

  • Moke

    Do we know if there will be any changes to power levels? I can’t be doing with points.

    • I_am_Alpharius

      Probable not. The way Power Levels are calculated is essentially an average points between the cheapest cost and the most expensive cost, which is then decimalised to make it simpler numbers to add together. Tweaking points up or down by a few points would not make a huge amount of different to a units Power Level value – even more so, given Chapter Approved will be making tweaks across the board.

    • zeno666

      Don’t think so. They’re unbalanced as is.
      Changing them might turn something into balanced and that unit just won’t see play 🙂

  • fenrisful2

    …and the creep continues.

    • OctopusVolcano

      Don’t worry they could change them all again by easter. which is good, means the meta will always be in flux.

      • Defenestratus

        meanwhile, the number of books that you need to own in order to play a game of 40k grows geometrically.

        • OctopusVolcano

          Nope. Just one more book each at any given time.

          And if it’s only points changes, you dont even really need the book as tools like Battlescribe will update those from the community and you only need them at the point you create your list, not during a game.

          Invariably it wont just be points changes, but I haven’t played a game of 8th with the main rulebook in tow since after the second game I played. You dont need to carry it all round with you, just to play. You just need to know the rules.

          • Fraser1191

            That’s a good point. Plus at some point they are gonna release that list builder app too

          • fenrisful2

            Just one problem with that, battlescribe is crap.
            I prefer notepad and a calculator,or simply pen and paper.
            If I wanted a computer program that calculates everything for me with DLC’s as updates, I could just as well play Dawn of War.

            And how is points changes ever ONLY?
            They affect all balance aspects of the entire game severely.

            Without points, stats and rules, I might as well play with barbie dolls.

          • OctopusVolcano

            The fact remains: Chapter approved, or any subsequent rule supplement, is published; People learn the new rules. List building tools update points and rules, people who dont like them keep the book to hand when building lists.

            Book is then only used for list building purposes, you dont need to carry it around to every game.

            I take my codex and data cards to games, thats it. If for some reason i felt like I really had to take the current edition of chapter approved with me thats still only two books.

          • zeno666

            No rulebook?

          • OctopusVolcano

            No..everyone I play with know the rules.

          • zeno666

            I hear that a lot, yet people make up rules and remembering only the beneficial parts of some 😉

          • OctopusVolcano

            I guess it depends who you play with. If you’re always going to tournaments fighting randoms then it may be in your interests to take a rulebook.

            I play with friends, it’s usually pretty obvious when someone has a rule wrong lol

          • Mike Forrey

            Well technically you are since by definition miniatures are just dolls. 🙂

          • Munn

            Jesus grandpa, show us on the doll where the computer touched you lol.

          • Spade McTrowel

            PLASTIC SISTERS CONFIRMED!

  • I use power-level. I don’t care about points tweaks. I’m interested to see what they bring for narrative play. I’d really like to see a path to glory type deal.

    • majbjörn

      Kappa

    • Defenestratus

      I’d like to be able to “level up” my characters in a necromunda-esque fashion for a campaign. That would be way rad.

      • OctopusVolcano

        I’m all for this idea. Though the number of units in a 40k army might provide to be problematic. Unless it only applies to characters I guess.

        • Muninwing

          i was originally thinking it would work better per unit… but a single model in each unit that met certain criteria gaining XP… then that XP getting spent in a certain category… it would be an interesting system.

          i’d love for it to be a feature of a longterm campaign.

      • Do this now for campaigns but yeah having a non houseruled ruleset for this so you don’t get houserule-stinkeye from raw purists would be great.

      • Muninwing

        that would be neat… especially if it was incremental, or gradual…

        i’d love a good system for that. then a way to implement it into a longer campaign. with playability over a long span of time.

    • Muninwing

      i’d like to see a campaign planner…

      as in, tools and strucutres for event planners who can in turn use them to get players onboard and into what is happening… then when a campaign is released, they would follow the same structures for play.

      then again, i’d prefer to see most of this stuff go digital anyway…

  • majbjörn

    100 points is still too much for Lord of Contagion X_X

    Why does the cool models always have to suck?

  • Fraser1191

    I still think the drop pod costs too much. I was kinda fine for the points cost of most things in the codex. Seeing as how I don’t spam stuff like “power gamers”, I generally never took guilliman and I still just want to buy A WHIRLWIND!!! Its been sold out since august…

    • Troy G

      The thing I can’t figure out is what you can put in a drop pod to justify it’s cost.

      • Red_Five_Standing_By

        Sternguard with Combiweapons. They can drop in turn one and melt a unit or two.

        • ILikeToColourRed

          and for that cost you might aswel use terminators

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Terminators cannot bring 10 Melta Guns to bear.

          • Mike Forrey

            A squad equipped with 10 meltas dropping in is exactly why drop pods cost that much now. Nobody really wants to play against that kind of BS.

          • Red_Five_Standing_By

            Is it any different than Raven Guard deep striking 10 Hellblasters?

          • ILikeToColourRed

            i play chaos not sm – but can’t you take combi meltas on each one?

      • Fraser1191

        If I could slap a dreadnought in it or centurians, I’d use drop pods. Cause I’m not all about the suicide squad thing.

  • KurtAngle2

    Fake

  • Why oh why would they reduce the points costs on aggressors?

    • Red_Five_Standing_By

      I don’t think they are popular is the reason.

      • Munn

        Also because they’re pretty bad.

        • Red_Five_Standing_By

          They have their place. I just wish they had more customizability.

    • zeno666

      This is only the first state of the Primaris takeover.
      They will become better and cheaper as time goes by.

      • Drpx

        And Guard will get worse.

  • Marc Berry

    Better rules for Los especially concerning vehicles.

  • Pat H

    Vehicle construction rules. Could we see a return of the looted wagon?

  • Gamecock13

    It is essential armies still using the index get something of significance soon. The discrepancy in points, abilities, traits, stratagems, etc…between an army with an 8th edition codex and one without is considerable. I don’t think the errata is necessarily the place to address it, but the rift in power between an army with and without their codex definitely shines a light on inefficiency of GW’s marketing strategy from a player’s standpoint.

    From their monetary standpoint I’m sure it is fantastic. The ‘ole “bleed it for all its worth approach.

  • Spacefrisian

    But will it fix the missing wargear options for Primaris Characters, Eldar Autarchs and will it give Marines Librarians, Chaplains, Khan, Chaos Lords and Sorceror there bikes back so indexes do not need to be bought (and give that poor Dark Apostle a bike and tda) as well.

    And will Lelith be brought in line with her lore again, the part about her not needing combat drugs.

    Can GW deliver?

  • stinkoman

    this makes the requirement for an official app all the more needed. if you are going to adjust points in different books (which is needed) then release an app that gets updated so making lists isnt a chore. i can count a few games i decided to not play because i didnt have a list and making one with the current codex/index format sucks. please dont mention power levels, i have yet to see anyone use them in my area.

  • Jeremy Larson

    The only way I’ll consider paying 85 points for a drop pod is if they regain the ability to carry dreadnoughts. Otherwise they’re worthless. There are really only 7 units that gain anything other than cosmetic/thematic utility out of them.

  • You know what would’ve made the article a lot more readable? Giving a simple comparison to the Codex/Index values. +1, -3, that kind of thing.

  • So yet again another book you need to play, eh? I remember when everyone was hyped about the Index and that it means you only need the BRB+Index to play. Well… now you need the BRB, the Index, the Codex and Chapter Approved. Awesome. And if you’re like me, you also need IA: Index XY.

  • SacTownBrian

    Dear GW we REALLY need the app for list building now. Rule book, codex, index, chapter approved. Too many books to build a single list and it hasn’t even been a whole year since 8th launched.

  • dante13

    Will it finally add a generic Chapter Master into the SM Codex now as GW was all about the make your own Chapters for 8th edition but you can’t make a chapter master…