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Debate Throwdown: Goatboy vs. Mr. Black

6 Minute Read
Jun 10 2011

A high-brow debate session between two high-class individuals.

Greetings readers! This is your newly hired Debate Mediator Chaz Sexington bringing you your first Bell of Lost Souls Debate Post! This week we have the site favorite Goatboy, bringer of some of the best tactics discussions and painting pointers around, as well as the webcomic Plastic Dudesmens, in a Q&A with Mr. Black, general wargaming article writer, hobbyist, and

The questions being asked this evening were drawn from a pool from emails, forums, and chat, so please forgive me if they seem a bit random at times- it is the internet, people. And I would just like to remind everyone, these are real questions and the real answers given, none of this has been altered… except to remove some obscenities… Had to do lots of editing for obscenities…
Gentlemen, anything you wish to say as an opening statement?
Mr. Black: Chaz Sexington? Well, I guess I can now tell when parents hate their kids.
Goatboy: Bizarro! I love you! Bizarro!
Mr. Black: Can I change my opening statement to how much I freakin’ hate Goatboy?

What would you like to see implemented in the new Necron codex?
Goatboy: Models, heh heh. Good looking models.
Mr. Black: Classy answer.
Goatboy: But really, decent rules with an army that doesn’t feel like a slow marine army. And some cool HQs. Really I just hope for a decent book, something new and different. Or hell if they could summon more Necrons, ala the Termagant generation. That would be neat, but then the warriors would have to be kinda sucky.
Mr. Black: Hmm… I’d have to agree on something that doesn’t feel like a palate swapped marine army. I would love to see an actual army that keeps coming back, a real war of attrition army… Not like the old Without Number rule from Tyranids, but more like zombies rising up after being riddled with bullets. Have them be something like, you know, Space Zombies, as far-fetched as that is.

What is the best written codex and why?

Mr. Black: I’d have to say for that one it’s Dark Eldar. Nothing overpowered and enough variety and options where you can field multiple army types that are, most importantly, all effective in what they do. It’s hard to make a plain ol’ crapy army with the book, and that’s why I believe it’s one of the best written one, along with some solid rules.
Goatboy: I agree. Currently it’s one of the best written books. I follow that with Wolves- but then again both are written by Phil Kelly so that follows that he would be the best.
Mr. Black: Dammit you can’t just agree with me like that. It’s against the rules… or something…
Goatboy: Lots of flavor overall, and just cool in general. I just want Phil Kelly to write the CSM book. Lord we would have something awesome then.

5th Edition gave us the rise of the mechanized metagame. What trends do you believe 6th edition will bring to the fore’?
Goatboy: Pre-measuring… Vehicles are going to get nerfed, for one thing. I think some tweaks to overall vehicle movement too, and not just talking about the whole pivoting to gain distance thing. Also I think Cover Saves are going to go to 5+ instead of 4+. I just hate looking at the board and seeing 4+ here, 4+ there, and so forth.
Mr. Black: Once again, you took what I was going to say. I do believe, however, that we will see a quicker FAQ update process, much like with Fantasy. And it wouldn’t surprise me to see a complete codex “faq” to be released with 6th edition as well. At least that’s what I believe needs to happen. I also believe we will see more of an emphasis placed on “trooper” models, ie, non-vehicles. As much as I personally don’t like it I also think the Troops section of the Force Org. will be even more important
than it is now.

Goatboy, do you like cats? (Random chat question)
Mr. Black: That question is incredibly biased. And just for that my answer is a new website: Goatboylovescats,com … …I dare you to click.
Goatboy: Yes, I do.
Favorite game company and why?
Goatboy: Um… Crap, I don’t have a favorite. I think a lot of the game companies kind of poo on us gamers at times. I like GW’s game and environment but as a company they are rather lame. Privateer Press seems cooler- but  don’t know them nor have I dealt with real Privateer. The Magic the Gathering guys seem to do a lot for gaming… But then they started the whole “gaming as a career” with winning, so its hard to like any particular gaming company as their mission is to get my money and as much of it as they can.
Mr. Black: I am a Privateer Press fanboy, oh yes, I love the company and how they go about their business. Seems like they actually are gamers first that just happen to own a massive gaming company. I know that’s not true, but its how it feels, versus, say, GW, who I can’t view as anything other than a huge, evil, corporation. Basically what I’m saying is that if Privateer Press were a sexy redhead girl I would totally want to duct tape it’s lips. Mmmm, yes…
Goatboy: It just feels like GW is owned by a retirement company, so all the people care about is the bottom line, so they will continue being the Cadillac of wargaming minis, at least until someone comes out with a good Sci-Fi game.
What is the best points level for games (Warhammer 40K)?
Mr. Black: I’d say 2000. I enjoy 1500 but no lower as some books just don’t work. 2000 is a good area where you can do a lot without feeling cluttered, but don’t have quite enough to feel overwhelmed.
Goatboy; 2000 points. Lower is just either not fun or has to be low enough to create a new style of play, like Kill Teams.
Mr. Black: I would agree. 2000 you can just almost fill a Force Org. chart if you try with a lot of armies, and I think that’s a good standard to go with. As for lower points… Well there is a reason Kill Teams exists- the game just doesn’t function at 500.
Goatboy: I also don’t like to go to 2500+, at that point you are just dealing with too much to actually have fun, and some armies just can’t do it, while other armies do it too easily Just isn’t fun.

Goatboy. You suck.
Mr. Black: *snicker*
Goatboy: Your question, I take it?

Mr. Black: Mhmm.

Goatboy: My lawyer says to say  “No.”

 Would you rather have the old “make your own character” method or the new “unlocking” style?

Goatboy: I would rather make my own most of the time. It is why I like the wolves dex so much. But really, I want interesting characters that activate different forms of armies- that is what I like the most.

Mr. Black: Hmm… Would have to say I do miss the old armory options, like the old Chaos book… But the new Unlock X as Troops is a good move. Allows more variety and army types to be seen.

Goatboy: Yup yup. I do wish we had more options, but that is life.

Mr. Black: As short as yours will be…


Best Model in any Range?

Mr. Black: Wetnurse. This isn’t even a debate.

Goatboy: It’s hard to pick just one. There are so many out there. I enjoy everything, down to the Ork Boyz to the Warlord Titans. Each model provides a different painting challenge in it’s own right.

What are your thoughts on the recently announced GW price increase, as well as the supposed trade embargo on non-EU countries?

Mr. Black: Bull****.

Goatboy: Bull****.

~And there you have it everyone! Some opinions from the BoLS writers which, in the end, proved to be less a debate and more a… friendly chat? What happened here??

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