Goatboy’s 40k Thoughts: Meet Imperium Soup Armies

Goatboy here again to tell you all about Imperial “soup” armies that take a little of this and a little of that to win.

The army that won WarGames con is something I am familiar with as its style beat the crap out of me at the ATC this year.  It is an Imperium Soup army that utilizes the power of Characters and forcing bad shooting interactions due to the Character rule.  It utilizes the Culexus Assassins as border agents to help mitigate damage to their “better” characters as well as to ensure some psychic protection.  It has some very specific weaknesses as it is a highly elite army.  Fast hordes that can do a lot of attacks mixed with rerolls is a nightmare for these lists – so while interesting I do not see it crushing the table top anytime soon.  It does present a very annoying issue to static gun lines as they only have access to shooting a Culexus that has built in protection and a decent amount of wounds.

The Army utilizes the Vanguard Detachment to activate a ton of “Elite” choices in the Assassin unit.  It uses all of them to create a suite of problem solvers for a lot of the common “alpha strike” style armies we see.  Sure it has a ton of drops but it can really set up to no care too much going 1st and still be a pain in the butt for an army to deal with.  Most of the time I see 3-5 Culexus Assassins, 3-5 Eversor Assassins, 1 Callidus, and 2 Vindicare as the Assassin make up. You get enough board space with the Culexus to always guarantee that is the closet Character to shoot, a few Eversor’s to cause pandemonium in your opponents army, and a set of Vindicare that can hopefully combine to take out a character or two.

From there you choose your favorite Imperium characters to either have set up within a Supreme Command detachment or as the token HQ for the Vanguard Detachment.  Normally there is the Saint plus another beat stick like hero.  The Saint is able to double move herself so it is very hard to “escape” her pain traint. Colin picked Draigo and Roboute as his other “beatsticks” but I feel that missing out on Roboute’s abilities make his choice not the best.  The other HQ that sees a lot of use is the Primarius Psyker from the AM book.  It is a cheap Smite outlet and probably worth to take as the Culexus shut off opponent Psychics but not your own.  Inquisitors might also be a decent choice here as well as Greyfax can be annoying.  Basically you need any Character that is under 10 wounds and decent enough to smash an opponent or two.  Heck I bet Mephiston would be a great addition and the ATC opponent played Bjorn.  The Dark Angel Sammie with his Bike was also in the list and his speed and movement actually might be good as well.

 

Of course this army feels so anti fluffy as it is just taking the best “characters” and shoving them in the glue that is the Vanguard/Assassin Detachment.  If you have a ton of cool converted characters and want a small army this is choice for you.  I expect as more books come out this type of list will move to the wayside as losing your “armies” extra abilities and stratagems will be too much to lose.  It also hinges on not fighting a ton of Sniper Rifles as well and with Ratlings showing up in a lot of AM lists you can expect your “glue” characters to get a ton of bullets in the eye.   The Jump Ork armies that are out there will just swarm these guys, any massed Flamer armies that can auto hit the Assassins as well as any fast, hard hitting, horde style lists should be a major issue.

So enough on how it works – lets build a list so you can recognize this if you see a ton of Assassins on the table top and what you might do.

Imperium Soup – Vanguard Detachment

HQ: The Saint Herself but no Friends
HQ: Primaris Psyker
Elite: Culexius Assassin
Elite: Culexius Assassin
Elite: Culexius Assassin
Elite: Culexius Assassin
Elite: Eversor Assassin
Elite: Vindicare Assassin

Imperium Soup – Vanguard Detachment

HQ: Mephiston
HQ: Primaris Psyker
Elite: Eversor Assassin
Elite: Eversor Assassin
Elite: Eversor Assassin
Elite: Vindcare Assassin
Elite: Callidus Assassin
Elite: Culexius Assassin

Supreme Command Detachment

HQ: Primaris Psyker
HQ: Primaris Psyker
HQ: Draigo
HQ: Sammie on his Super Bike
HQ: Inquisitor Greyfax
Elite: Eversor Assassin

Sits around 2000 pts and is just full of dumb stuff. It does run low on Command points at 6 but you are just using rerolls most of the time to ensure your Eversor do Mortal wounds to things.

God does this army look like a pile of no fun.  It is just full of characters that don’t really belong together but work alright together as most have fast movement, good abilities, or a cheap option to smite someone in the face.  I think with Objective secured showing up a lot more now and a return of bodies on the table top these types of lists will be seen less and less.  If you know someone who bought a ton of the Assassin game for cheap then be on the look out for way too many Assassins coming to take all your candy away.

~What’s your take on Imperial Soup, and what do you think the solution is to keep the Imperium on an even playing field with the other armies?

  • YetAnotherFacelessMan

    I’m pretty sure we’ve covered this list before, haven’t we? If not, I’ve got a simple flowchart of solutions.

    Are you at a tournament?
    Yes: Accept the loss because it’s perfectly legal. Stop going to tournaments in the future if you can’t handle legal losses.

    No: Is it someone you know well enough to slap?
    Yes: Slap yourself. You let this happen to your friend. You didn’t stop this. You didn’t see the warning signs. Never play with the husk of your friend again because the person you knew inside is dead.

    No: Have you deployed yet?
    Yes: Pack up your miniatures and respectfully decline to play.

    No: Respectfully decline to play.

    AIN’T HARD.

    • petrow84

      Expansion: Did you happen to bring a list full of with Burna Boyz and Skorcha Buggies?
      YES: Laugh manically, while you burn their expensive toys to cinder with with your chinese-toy-car converted trukks and buggies.

      • rtheom

        Expansion to the Expansion: Are you watching the guy using the converted toy-cars as trukks?
        Yes: Grin through gritted teeth as he asks you about how cool his car conversions are, but you can’t bring yourself to be rude and tell him they look really terrible and cheap.

        • SonoftheMountain

          Expansion Cubed: looking terrible and cheap is perfect for Orks

    • Nyyppä

      It’s pretty hard to argue against this….

    • Snord

      Comment voted up (for being generally superior to article). Thread won. Subject closed.

    • Hendrik Booraem VI

      pot. kettle.

      Done.

    • 415Native

      Yup, anyone who brings lists like this to friendly games should be slapped and shunned. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

    • marxlives

      I guess I am sitting pretty, since most other games don’t require these types of rules for pick up games or tournaments in order to have fun or be competitive.

      • YetAnotherFacelessMan

        I’m not certain what “types of rules” you are referring to, but different people have “fun” different ways. Some people have fun when a perfect strategy comes together. Some people have fun when an unlikely event comes about. 40k can satisfy both those people (though maybe not at the same time).

        As far as competitive, I’m not convinced that ANY game with random chance as a central component can be “competitive”. I view high-level poker to still be gambling, as opposed to sport, for instance. So, if you’re playing Chess, then I can forgive the coinflip to decide white vs black as a required amount of randomness, but I don’t believe in the concept of “dice competitions”.

        I can be happy I won or sad I lost, but I’ll never say I’m better than someone because they rolled a 2 when they needed a 3.

  • Marco Marantz

    This article is a waste of time – trying to re-badge something thats already well know and despised, as its lame as hell. I dont think there is too many ways to break 8th but this is one – heres’ hoping GW kill this nonsense quick like they did with flyer-spam.

    • We will see a return to the max 1 assassin, or a limit of 1 of each discipline. Or you will have to unlock them by purchasing an inquisitor or similar.

      But I can see flyers or even the new deathguard putting some serious hurt on this build. Deathguard with their potentially large amount of mortal wound handouts each turn would help.

      I wouldn’t really be happy to see it across from me, but I have faced worse lists and still had fun. Of course, you just bring out an army not expected to win, like an army of ork mad boys or a genestealer cult invasion force, and just plow into them and see what happens. 😉

      • ZeeLobby

        I’d be really shocked if that’s the solution. It’d prevent them from selling 12 assassin’s to one person.

        • Wildcard1980

          They don’t want this because as totals go it’s less expensive to buy then a normal army there spending about 400 or so on the whole army but a full army of just about anything else that’s well rounded is closer to 600-800 plus depending on the army. So from a bottom line point of view it’s a loser. But I agree with most I would just not play this army and the store we play at would just not let it in the door for a tournament they are more interested in people having fun.

          • ZeeLobby

            Ah, but you’re missing the fact that GW has to make back money on those assassin molds. In order to consider the new assassin models a success, they need to sell X number over the lifetime of the mold. While the number of people running this list is probably a tiny drop in the pond, they are buying 10+ of them at a time. That’s ignoring everyone buying one or two for their own personal army. So yes, while the person who buys 12 might be giving less money to GW, there’s no guarantee that he wouldn’t have just played with an army he already owned otherwise. But it does show up on financials as a successful product because X number were sold.

          • marxlives

            And the fact that you have to go through those lengths to make a game (pick up or tournament) fun and competitive is a bad sign for a game’s overall design. I think for many people who live in the GW bubble, they would be surprised to see this behavior as unusual outside of it.

        • Drpx

          But they nerfed Ravenspam! Surely that had nothing to do with Primaris being released the next week.

      • I_am_Alpharius

        As @ZeeLobby:disqus says I’d doubt that will be the fix. I have said this before on this issue. If you look at the couple of fixes that have come through then GW, very much, plants the foots down on simplicity. Additionally, if they follow their attitude to AoS they won’t be using FAQ’s or the upcoming Chapter Approved book to make changes to the core rules (this was talked about on the WH-Tv twitch stream in regards to the Generals Handbook 2.0) ; fundamental changes will be reserved for new editions.

        Personally, I would imagine the fix will be similar the one used for the units with keyword “flyers”. I’d hazard GW may go down the route of stipulating that units with the keyword “characters” can’t hold or contest objectives unless they have ‘x’ amount of starting wounds (I was thinking 7+?) and/or are your Warlord.

    • Drpx

      “Dont think there is too many ways to break 8th.”

      XD

      • Marco Marantz

        I stand behind this. There really hasnt been a variety of lists that have emerged as game breaking. We’ve had three thus far and GW addressed one quickly. 8th ed has been simplified a lot so its harder to break but id have to admit GW could be supplying us with the wood, nails and hammer for the coffin if it becomes too easy to run mortalwound spam lists. I probably should caveat my answer by saying YET, as we are only onto our 3rd codex….4th looks worrying. GWs biggest problem is making a balanced ruleset that people want to play that will grow the game as opposed to short term model sales for lists which are broken. History has shown they favor the later.

  • Charon

    8th will be the savior, the chosen edition where deathstars and superfriends do not exist anymore 😀

    • New GW’s old lies

    • New GW’s old lies

    • Hendrik Booraem VI

      Liked for sarcasm.

    • ZeeLobby

      Well. It’s not like they actually tested anything 😛

    • OldHat

      This is not a deathstar and it is not superfriends. It is just a new brand of idiocy because of one stupid rule (concerning characters) that will likely get a fix in Chapter Approved, hopefully.

  • ZeeLobby

    So tired of allies. Should just be called Imperium 40K.

    • memitchell

      Hey! Genestealer Cult uses AM and Tyranids. But we are NOT allies, or even friends. We’re family!

      • ZeeLobby

        Aww, OK, I’ll allow that, but just because it’s so cute!

    • marxlives

      True, keywords is the new allies, but more streamlined, characters are not the new death star, they are the deathstar bubble. 8th ed. streamlining 7th’s problems.

  • I’m not sure this would stand up to a burna boys list.
    I’ll never roll to hit again!
    Aside from the weapons that need to roll to hit.

  • SonoftheMountain

    I know this will get slammed by the “It’s competitive, deal with it!” crowd, but how is this any better than the crap we dealt with in 7th?

    • OldHat

      It isn’t. But it will hopefully be fixed before long. GW seems far more responsive now.

  • I_am_Alpharius

    I mirror other responders….We’re having this discussion again?

  • Erich Schoenholtz

    Let’s be clear. This isn’t an army. This is exploitation of crap rules to win a game. Period. Let’s stop dancing around the issue and call it what it is. Mock anyone that plays this list because clearly they need to use exploitation of crap rules to win games to feel good about themselves as they think they are some sort of 40k mastermind. Let’s also stop posting this list and not keep talking about it. Otherwise, you validate it and then lists like these start showing up at local tourneys and ruins things.

    • memitchell

      I bet I can tell what news channel you watch exclusively (assuming you are an American). If not, its a way of saying discouraging discussion does not “fix” the issue. My question is, who would spend 13 x $25 on a 13 assassins for dumb list that is only good for a dumb tournament? That’s 12 superfluous assassin models for “normal gaming.” I would think the list has a built in monetary limitation.

      • Snord

        Nothing you said contradicted his point. You just provided another reason why this ‘list’ is rubbish. Not sure why calling this for what it is is any indication of which news channel he watches…

        • memitchell

          I commented on “not keep talking about it.” Plus, I like the discussion and the list. Makes me glad I don’t waste time and money on tournaments.

      • At full retail that’s only $325, tournament players spend more than that on hotel rooms for a single event, and that’s not even factoring in the people who buy them for $5 apiece from recasters

      • Erich Schoenholtz

        I don’t watch legacy media channels. You’re assessment of me is wrong.

        • memitchell

          Sorry. It was funnier in my head. I don’t peruse a plethora of 40K forums, so I don’t mind a little redundancy, here. Plus, it confirms my faith that this list is well-panned.

  • Erich Schoenholtz

    PS: The name “Imperial Soup Army” is dumb. It’s as bad as “Nothingburger” and “Athleisure”. Dumb.

    • memitchell

      It’s the Internet. Mindless, overused, catch phrase repletion is a no-brainer.

      • Snord

        Add ‘meta’ to that list.

  • DoctorBored

    To all the net-listers: Don’t go buying a bunch of assassins just yet. In a few months, this list wont be possible/effective.

  • 301stFeinminsterArmoured

    Covenite Character-stars, Eldar Soup, Tau Drone Soup, Deathwatch, Necron Conclave/Mercs, GSC, or Bikes laugh at these lists.

  • Drpx

    Took only 3 months to get back to prefix-stars.

  • I miss 7th ed